MJ basically didn't lose with 1 star.. Everyone else lost a ton with many stars

[3ball]

* Magic lost a bunch with Kareem/Worthy

* Duncan lost a bunch with Manu/Parker/Kawhi

* Curry lost a bunch with Klay/Dray

* Lebron lost a bunch with Wade/Bosh or Kyrie/Love

* Bird lost a bunch with McHale/Parish/DJ

* Shaq lost a bunch with Kobe and Penny


TLDR: everyone is a bunch of losers except MJ and Russell

[Kiddlovesnets]

I posted a chart like this one earlier, and the notable fact is that MJ has never lost when his teams were in championship window(top 4-5 by pre-season odds). When he has a good enough team to win, he always won:

[Manny98]

Well he played in an era that was so diluted that most teams didn't have more than 1 star player let alone 2

[3ball]

.
PLAYOFFS


11' Dirk'........ 25.2 PER... 5.5 BPM... 1.6 VORP... 0.210 WS/48... 27.7 ppg
11' Terry....... 20.3 PER... 4.6 BPM... 1.1 VORP... 0.179 WS/48... 17.5 ppg
GAP.................. 4.9.............1.1........... 0.5............ 0.031............ 10.2

93' Jordan... 30.1 PER... 11.6 BPM... 2.9 VORP... 0.270 WS/48... 35.1 ppg
93' Pippen... 16.9 PER...'.. 2.0 BPM... 0.8 VORP... 0.083 WS/48... 20.1 ppg
GAP................. 13.2............ 9.6............ 2.1............ 0.187.......... 15.0

92' Jordan... 27.2 PER.... 9.9 BPM... 2.8 VORP... 0.216 WS/48... 34.5 ppg
92' Pippen... 20.1 PER.... 6.6 BPM... 2.0 VORP... 0.168 WS/48... 19.5 ppg
GAP................. 7.1............ 3.3............ 0.8............ 0.048............ 15.0

91' Jordan... 32.0 PER... 14.6 BPM... 2.9 VORP... 0.333 WS/48... 31.1 ppg
91' Pippen... 22.0 PER...'.. 6.5 BPM... 1.5 VORP... 0.197 WS/48... 21.6 ppg
GAP................. 10.0............ 8.1............ 1.4............ 0.136............ 9.5

96' Jordan... 26.7 PER.. 10.7 BPM.. 2.4 VORP.. 0.317 WS/48... 30.7 ppg
96' Pippen... 19.4 PER.'... 7.8 BPM.. 1.8 VORP.. 0.195 WS/48... 16.9 ppg
GAP................. 7.3............ 2.9............ 0.6............ 0.122............ 13.8

97' Jordan... 27.1 PER.... 9.9 BPM... 2.4 VORP... 0.235 WS/48... 31.1 ppg
97' Pippen... 18.1 PER.... 5.1 BPM... 1.4 VORP... 0.145 WS/48... 19.2 ppg
GAP................. 9.1............ 4.8............ 1.0............ 0.090............ 11.9

98' Jordan... 28.1 PER.... 9.0 BPM... 2.4 VORP... 0.265 WS/48... 32.4 ppg
98' Pippen... 19.4 PER.... 5.6 BPM... 1.6 VORP... 0.166 WS/48... 16.8 ppg
GAP................. 8.7............ 3.4............ 0.8............ 0.095............ 16.4


CONCLUSION - Jordan had 6 rings that were far greater carry-jobs than 11' Dirk

[3ball]

I posted a chart like this one earlier, and the notable fact is that MJ has never lost when his teams were in championship window(top 4-5 by pre-season odds). When he has a good enough team to win, he always won:

If others could win 6 with Pippen, then MJ isn't goat

the only reason the Bulls were expected to win from 92-98' is MJ

The gap between Jordan and Pippen's stats for all 6 rings was far greater than the gap between Dirk and his sidekick in 2011 Playoffs (stats in previous post above), so Jordan had 6 carry-jobs that were greater than Dirk's 2011 ring.. And pippen's peak stats were LOW, so the gap was due to his weak production.

Ultimately, MJ isn't goat if Pippen is actually a top 30 all-time player.. It isn't goat to win 6 rings in a 2-star vs 2-star format if Pippen is a top 30 all-time player... Fortunately, the stats say Pippen is about 120th, and he never played anywhere near top 30 level.. There's no examples of him dominating or even meeting the level that many lower-ranked guys reached.

the reality is the Bulls developed a 3-peat system that could compete for the Finals with Pippen playing horribly in the 94' Playoffs (kukoc led the team in bpm, while pippen was 4th in WS/48 and averaged 21 on 40% against the Knicks.. Jordan's 30 ppg beats the Knicks easily)..

So tons of guys in pippen's place would've done better in 94'.. Jordan would've won the title with that 3-peat system and improved roster (Ewing almost beat Hakeem with 18 on 35%)

[3ball]

.

1992 ECSF

Pippen.... 16 on 40%
X-man..... 19 on 50%


1989 ECSF

M Jackson.... 15/3/11
Pippen........... 15/7/5


1996 ECSF

Pippen....... 15 on 33%
Oakley..... 13/11 on 50%

TLDR: Ewing couldn't win with Pippen because he couldn't win with sidekicks that out-produced Pippen 3 times (above)

[light]

* Magic lost a bunch with Kareem/Worthy

* Duncan lost a bunch with Manu/Parker/Kawhi

* Curry lost a bunch with Klay/Dray

* Lebron lost a bunch with Wade/Bosh or Kyrie/Love

* Bird lost a bunch with McHale/Parish/DJ

* Shaq lost a bunch with Kobe and Penny


TLDR: everyone is a bunch of losers except MJ and Russell

You know as well as anyone that the Bulls didn't face anyone in the 90s.

The 1980s and the 2010s were eras chock full of talent and loaded teams.

And even though the league was going through expansion after 1988 the Bulls still lost in 1989, 1990 and 1995. It would have been impossible for the Bulls to win 6 titles outside of the 90's.

[Axe]

1-9

[SATAN]

You know as well as anyone that the Bulls didn't face anyone in the 90s.

The 1980s and the 2010s were eras chock full of talent and loaded teams.

And even though the league was going through expansion after 1988 the Bulls still lost in 1989, 1990 and 1995. It would have been impossible for the Bulls to win 6 titles outside of the 90's.

Watch him claim that Rodman, the NBA player, was wrong.

[Airupthere]

Watch him claim that Rodman, the NBA player, was wrong.

Then would you hold rodmans opinions true even his take on today’s league?

[3ball]

Watch him claim that Rodman, the NBA player, was wrong.

You don't need to face a super-team unless you have a super-team yourself

In other words, it means nothing for lebron's super-teams to beat non-superteams.. and Jordan doesn't have to face super-teams because he didn't have one himself

Btw, lebron lost twice to 1-star teams and underdogs.. so it's a moot point anyway.. Jordan never lost to 1-star teams or underdogs

[SATAN]

Haha, yeah dude! Totally!

[SATAN]

Then would you hold rodmans opinions true even his take on today’s league?

Depends. He seems like a jaded old prick these days. Like many other ex players. Wannabe tough guys.

[3ball]

If a the Bulls were a 1-man team and Jordan was carrying them, then the league must've been weak for a 1 man team to dominate

was the league weak when Dirk carried the Mavs to the 2011 title?

The gap between Jordan and Pippen's stats for all 6 rings was far greater than the gap between Dirk and his sidekick in 2011 Playoffs (stats in previous post #4 above), so Jordan had 6 carry-jobs that were greater than Dirk's 2011 ring.. And pippen's peak stats were LOW, so the gap was due to his weak production.

Furthermore, league expansion diluted the top-heavy, super-team 80's - so the talent was spread around evenly in the 90's (parity) and only 2 stars were required to make the Finals... obviously the goat + anyone will dominate a 2-star vs 2-star format.. aka Woolridge was unlucky to play with MJ when 2-star teams weren't nearly enough to win (super-team required.. 1 of 2 super-teams, aka impossible)

[SATAN]

Haha, yeah, man! Right on!