List of 2nd options on champions that never achieved elite 1st option stats or FMVP

[mehyaM24]

Except the Bulls were a lottery caliber team in MJ’s first 3 years(before Pippen was drafted), and MJ took such a team to the playoffs. Pippen played with stacked blazers and the 1999-2000 blazers were preseason favorites to win title, and he didn’t show up in big games when it mattered:

https://www.basketball-reference.com...ason_odds.html

they weren't lottery caliber. the bottom eastern conference just sucked back then - and a below .500 record got you into the playoffs.

i'm not saying pippen>jordan but you're making a lame excuse.

[kawhileonard2]

Pippen was a #1 option and team leader.

His career was stunted by Jordan like Harden in OKC.

Pippen would have been at Burgerking

Pippen became great due to playing with Jordan, he even said so himself.

Source: GoogleBooks

Pippen, unlike other Bulls who usually kept their distance from Jordan, tried to learn all he could from Jordan in practice. In turn, Jordan worked with Pippen on his moves, jump shot, and defense and taught him mental toughness.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...sejordan090909

“Michael was great at identifying things,” Krause said. “Would Pippen have been great someplace else? Michael absolutely killed Scottie in practice every day for his first two years. Mike just tore Pip up. He made Pip learn how to compete and forced him into playing hard. Had there not been someone to challenge Scottie like that, I’m not sure what would’ve happened to him.”

[Kiddlovesnets]

they weren't lottery caliber. the bottom eastern conference just sucked back then - and a below .500 record got you into the playoffs.

i'm not saying pippen>jordan but you're making a lame excuse.

According to preseason odds, the Bulls were 21st, 18th and 20th among all teams and they ain’t projected to be top 8 in the eastern conference.

[mehyaM24]

chicago was mediocre before jordan, with jordan & weren't a .500 team until drafting pippen.

those odds aren't unexpected.

[Kiddlovesnets]

chicago was mediocre before jordan, with jordan & weren't a .500 team until drafting pippen.

those odds aren't unexpected.

The odds showed how bad the Bulls were, even with MJ. Magic said it in an interview that he would stay in college one more year if Chicago had the #1 pick that year and wanted to select him. This shows exactly what it was like to play for the Bulls, it was no better than the Cavaliers in 2002-2003 before they drafted Lebron.

[mehyaM24]

The odds showed how bad the Bulls were, even with MJ. Magic said it in an interview that he would stay in college one more year if Chicago had the #1 pick that year and wanted to select him. This shows exactly what it was like to play for the Bulls, it was no better than the Cavaliers in 2002-2003 before they drafted Lebron.

you're not saying anything i disagree with. they were "bad" until pippen was drafted and came into his own.



here is rookie pippen in a do or die postseason game - bulls win their first playoff series that decade. he was going to be special no matter what.

[kawhileonard2]

Bulls were bad before Jordan and had they drafted Pippen first they still never would have even made the playoffs at all.

[kawhileonard2]

you're not saying anything i disagree with. they were "bad" until pippen was drafted and came into his own.



here is rookie pippen in a do or die postseason game - bulls win their first playoff series that decade. he was going to be special no matter what.

Not really!

Pippen would have been at Burgerking

Pippen became great due to playing with Jordan, he even said so himself.

Source: GoogleBooks

Pippen, unlike other Bulls who usually kept their distance from Jordan, tried to learn all he could from Jordan in practice. In turn, Jordan worked with Pippen on his moves, jump shot, and defense and taught him mental toughness.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...sejordan090909

“Michael was great at identifying things,” Krause said. “Would Pippen have been great someplace else? Michael absolutely killed Scottie in practice every day for his first two years. Mike just tore Pip up. He made Pip learn how to compete and forced him into playing hard. Had there not been someone to challenge Scottie like that, I’m not sure what would’ve happened to him.”

[mehyaM24]

i'm sure jordan helped a lot - he's one of the greatest players ever. the other stuff you're claiming is out there and doesn't warrant a response.

[Axe]

Another rubbish thread made by op

[HoopsNY]

Since 1980 - Pippen, Gasol, Terry, Rip Hamilton, Tony Parker, Horry, Klay

aka "true" 2nd options

So obviously, elite 1st options that played sidekick are far superior:

Magic, Kareem, McHale, Dr. J, Worthy, Kobe, Shaq, KG, Wade, Kyrie, AD.

Ultimately, only Jordan lacked the elite 1st option sidekicks, FMVP sidekicks, or equal-scoring partners that everyone else enjoyed - he was stuck with a true 2nd option like Pippen and inferior team defenses (bulls had the #7 defense during 1st three-peat, and inferior defenses in Finals/ECF).

Another stupid post. Go look at the opposing team's second option's production in the finals before you go judging "elite 1st option sidekicks" for Chicago in those 6 championship runs.

I know the retort will be 1996. Well how about 1991 when Pippen outscored Chicago's opponents' 1st AND 2nd options?

[AussieSteve]

So, @3ball...

A guy who:
- was 7x All NBA, including 3x 1st team
- twice finished top 5 in MVP
- twice won league wide player of the month awards
- led a team to 55 wins and within a bucket of the conference finals, with Horace Grant as his 2nd option
...was a true 2nd option.

And a guy who:
- has never been All NBA 1st team and only once even been 2nd team
- has never polled a single vote in the MVP award
- has never won a player of the month award, even though they award them for each conference now and he has been in the east his whole career
- has never led a team to the playoffs, except if you count one season when his team was 37-30 with him and 12-3 without him.
... is an elite first option sidekick

Defend this 3ball.

[AussieSteve]

Here's another one for you @3ball...

A guy who:
- was 7x All NBA, including 3x 1st team
- twice finished top 5 in MVP
- twice won league wide player of the month awards
- led a team to 55 wins and within a bucket of the conference finals, with Horace Grant as his 2nd option
...was a true 2nd option.

And a guy who:
- was never All NBA 1st team, or even 2nd team
- polled MVP votes only once, finishing 12th
- never won a player of the month award
- never went to the playoffs as his team's best player
... is an elite first option sidekick

Defend this one as well please 3ball

[3ball]

Another stupid post. Go look at the opposing team's second option's production in the finals before you go judging "elite 1st option sidekicks" for Chicago in those 6 championship runs.

I know the retort will be 1996. Well how about 1991 when Pippen outscored Chicago's opponents' 1st AND 2nd options?

You don't get it - you're praising Pippen for outscoring the opposing #1 option once in single a series with 20 ppg, whereas I'm talking about sidekicks leading the ENTIRE PLAYOFFS in scoring like AD, or leading your team with 25-30 ppg like 02' Kobe, 11' Wade, 16' Kyrie, 86' McHale, 85' Kareem or 87' Worthy..

It's no comparison - Pippen never played anywhere near the level of other winning sidekicks

[AussieSteve]

You don't get it - you're praising Pippen for outscoring the opposing #1 option once in single a series with 20 ppg, whereas I'm talking about sidekicks leading the ENTIRE PLAYOFFS in scoring like AD, or leading your team with 25-30 ppg like 02' Kobe, 11' Wade, 16' Kyrie, 86' McHale, 85' Kareem or 87' Worthy..

It's no comparison - Pippen never played anywhere near the level of other winning sidekicks

So, who's the best player of these 3?

Player A:
- was 7x All NBA, including 3x 1st team
- twice finished top 5 in MVP, and 6x in the top 11
- twice won league wide player of the month awards
- led a team to 55 wins and within a bucket of the conference finals, with Horace Grant as his 2nd option

Player B:
- has never been All NBA 1st team and only once even been 2nd team
- has never polled a single vote in the MVP award
- has never won a player of the month award, even though they award them for each conference now and he has been in the east his whole career
- has never led a team to the playoffs, except if you count one season when his team was 37-30 with him and 12-3 without him (ie. better without him)

Player C
- was never All NBA 1st team, or even 2nd team
- polled MVP votes only once, finishing 12th
- never won a player of the month award
- never went to the playoffs as his team's best player