The difference between Kobe, Vince, and McGrady

[Phoenix]

You're pointlessly splitting hairs by taking it literally. Go watch that entire 03 game. McGrady consistently needed screens to shake Kobe on offense, and Kobe did not need screens to blow past McGrady on the other end

No I'm not, that's expressly why I asked 'am I to take that literally?'. If you don't want such ( and I can't separate what is literal and what is supposed to be somewhat hyperbolic on this forum, especially when dealing with hardcore fans for which you are a known Kobe one), then just say 'Tmac often needed screens to score on Kobe', which wouldn't be a statement I would question much. Or, it's a free society and express yourself however the hell you want, but you'll be challenged as to how literal you intend your comment to be. That's how shit works.

Again, if that highlight video is supposed to show every case of Tmac scoring on Kobe or vice versa.....then I don't need to watch the entire game which is going to have lots of plays not involving those two that are irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Tmac may have needed screens at times( I counted 3 occurrences there off memory) but he also shot up over the top of him multiple times and scored that you're not acknowledging including the one where he faked him out of his shoes. You're pretending like that wasn't one of the first highlights in the vid. Tmac was taller and could shoot over the top, Kobe was quicker and that enabled him to limit penetration. You're not bringing new information to the table.

[Indian guy]

Kobe was functionally a better athlete than both of them. He didn't have the raw leaping ability of VC and maybe even T-Mac (although was certainly a better finisher than T-Mac), but I'd say he had literally every other athletic attribute in his favor. Kobe was quicker, faster, more agile, more coordinated, better at changing direction, more explosive first step and arguably stronger too. These matter more on the basketball court. You add his far superior work ethic to this and it's easy to see why he went on to have a much better career.

[Im Still Ballin]

I found the thread.

[tpols]

Yes, Kobe was more naturally talented then both, although McGrady in his prime could definitely challenge him. Vince was a superb player, but way too inconsistent to be matched up with someone of Kobe's greatness.

One thing people don't realize is that Kobe was overall quicker than both of those player and had a more explosive first step. That is so important in basketball for athletic two guards. Kobe obviously had a great vertical leap, but it was not quite as good as either Carter or McGrady. But he could get past either of them whenever he wanted based on his extremely good ball-handling and incredible first step. He was also likely quicker than both of them laterally both on offense and defense. MJ, Kobe, and Dwyane Wade are the quickest elite shooting guards I have ever seen, and they could routinely blow past point guards, shooting guards and small forwards. It didn't matter who you put in front of them, they would almost always have a quickness advantage, and if they didn't, they would still have the strength to overwhelm their opponent.

Again, McGrady and Carter were not slouches when it came to quickness ( McGrady was quicker than Vince Carter) but they could not compare with someone like Kobe. And this is an area of athleticism that is so extremely important but often overlooked.

This post pretty much sums it up, but another big advantage Kobe had was he had a much more determined mental drive to be great than Carter or Tmac had. And thats not to say the latter two didn't have great drive... they did, but Kobe was a psychopath with it.

They all came into the league at the same time and by the late 2000s tmac and Carter were shells while Kobe was still putting up 30/5/5 leading championship teams. His mental will and discipline was 10/10 while there's was like 8 or 8.5.

[insidehoops]

Slightly off topic but I wish we had seen Vince and McGrady play together longer

[kawhileonard2]

Slightly off topic but I wish we had seen Vince and McGrady play together longer

Agreed

[WhiteKyrie]

Yes, Kobe was more naturally talented then both, although McGrady in his prime could definitely challenge him. Vince was a superb player, but way too inconsistent to be matched up with someone of Kobe's greatness.

One thing people don't realize is that Kobe was overall quicker than both of those player and had a more explosive first step. That is so important in basketball for athletic two guards. Kobe obviously had a great vertical leap, but it was not quite as good as either Carter or McGrady. But he could get past either of them whenever he wanted based on his extremely good ball-handling and incredible first step. He was also likely quicker than both of them laterally both on offense and defense. MJ, Kobe, and Dwyane Wade are the quickest elite shooting guards I have ever seen, and they could routinely blow past point guards, shooting guards and small forwards. It didn't matter who you put in front of them, they would almost always have a quickness advantage, and if they didn't, they would still have the strength to overwhelm their opponent.

Again, McGrady and Carter were not slouches when it came to quickness ( McGrady was quicker than Vince Carter) but they could not compare with someone like Kobe. And this is an area of athleticism that is so extremely important but often overlooked.

I mean that speaks to athleticism in general, a lot of people just foolishly think it’s run fast and jump high, as I’ve said before the fetishization of the black athlete in America. VC could jumper higher than McGrady, who could jump higher than Kobe. But everything else you said 100% makes Kobe the better athlete and talent. In terms of quickness Kobe > McGrady > VC. And yes for big guards, Mike, Kobe and D-Wade are easily the fastest. There’s more to athleticism than jumping. Hand speed is forgotten. Lateral quickness is extremely important. MJ was the size of a big guard with little guy explosive quickness and smaller feet which made him way more difficult to deal with on both ends. Super large hands but relatively small feet for his size. It weirdly gave him the most perfect NBA body along with everything else. Kobe was similar. Like Booker is the best shooting guard in the game, he’s not even close to as athletic as Bryant.

[WhiteKyrie]

Slightly off topic but I wish we had seen Vince and McGrady play together longer

Nah, I would’ve preferred the Bulls have pulled that trigger on Pippen for McGrady. MJ with T-Mac from 98 - 03, or T-Mac and healthy G-Hill from 2001 forward are bitter fits. VC and McGrady are way too redundant.

2001 Hill and McGrady Magic vs 2001 Shaq and Kobe Lakers Finals would’ve been awesome

[red1]

carter was easily more athletic than kobe.

carter never ended up on a great team early in his career and he admit he checked out mentally at times


you'll never hear something like that from kobe



kobe's mental game and work ethic was the main difference. he just wanted it more.


tmac had injury issues I have no doubt that he couldve carried a team to a championship with the right cast and with health

[red1]

Kobe was functionally a better athlete than both of them. He didn't have the raw leaping ability of VC and maybe even T-Mac (although was certainly a better finisher than T-Mac), but I'd say he had literally every other athletic attribute in his favor. Kobe was quicker, faster, more agile, more coordinated, better at changing direction, more explosive first step and arguably stronger too. These matter more on the basketball court. You add his far superior work ethic to this and it's easy to see why he went on to have a much better career.

carter was quick as hell and his long arms were a HUGE underrated advantage that he had over other guards


basketball was effortless for him he just didnt care about winning championships as much as kobe did



kobe said he had a goal before he even came into the league of winning multiple rings


he wanted to win so bad that he was willing to do anything to win


meanwhile carter showed that basketball wasnt everything to him the way it was for kobe:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/...forgive-vince/
https://www.sportscasting.com/vince-...with-decision/

His decision to attend his graduation on the day of the biggest game of his career became a hot-button issue, questioned by teammates—“A graduation? I don’t care what type of private jet was supplied, it breaks your routine,” says Jerome “Junkyard Dog” Williams today—and debated in the pages of the New York Times.

kobe was 100% about winning


thats a huge difference, and you could see it because every time was vince was proked and prodded by the media he would respond with a monster game which shows it was a mental/effort thing all along

[TAZORAC]

Mcgrady was the better scorer of the 3, Kobe was the overall better player.

Had Carter and Mcgrady played with prime Shaq, they would have multiple championships as hell. I'd even throw Ray Allen and Paul Pierce in that bunch as well