The difference between Kobe, Vince, and McGrady

[ScottieQuitting]

None of this really matters because no matter who you argue is better offensively, Kobe was still leagues above both of them defensively so...

Fax. Big facts. I respect somebody who can lock down defensively. Plus he was just miles more mentally tough and physically durable than those other guys.

Vince was soft like wet flowers.

McGrady was better than his cousin. But both of those guys at some point, would roll over and cede dominance.

Guys like Kobe? Wade? Not so easy.

[CTbasketball92]

I can agree with change of direction, but Tmac's first step was right there with Kobe's. And as far as body control and touch around the rim, VC had jelly layups to give anyone a run:

Yeah TMac had a great first step for sure. I think Kobe just had an elasticity of movement that is super hard to replicate once you get above 6'4." Kobe moved like he was Kyrie w. the agility and his handle and his creativity when it came to shot creation, with the pivots, the balance, the shiftiness and the overall ability to contort his body in impossible ways. So flexible. Kobe is right up there with MJ for most coordinated NBA player ever (with probably Wade, Kyrie and lowkey someone like Nash). That body control/agility is a very, very underrated, yet endlessly applicable form of athleticism. VC and TMac definitely had it to a degree, especially in the air, but on the ground it was a different story, because it's hard to move that way in general, but at a legit shooting guard's size is even crazier.

[ScottieQuitting]

That’s why Harden’s athleticism is low key slept on. Is he a leaper? No. But everything else is quite good athletically. Especially at his size and he’s anywhere in that 4 - 6 best SG ever, depending on how you rank him alongside with the non MJ / Kobe / Wade guys like West, Drexler and Iverson.

[eliteballer]

I can agree with change of direction, but Tmac's first step was right there with Kobe's. And as far as body control and touch around the rim, VC had jelly layups to give anyone a run:

No, Kobe was faster than him.

Every time they matched up one on one in 03 McGrady needed screens, and Kobe didn't.

One other thing Kobe and Jordan had over a guy like Carter was they needed 0 time to "gather" on their jumps. They just exploded in an instant, where Carter seemed to need more time.

[2much_knowledge]

Awesome thread. Work ethic and defense. Also better help

One key that people don't mention is good health.

Carter exploded in 2000, even better in 2001 and was playing his best basketball in half of 2002 before the injury. So we will never know the full potential of his game if he kept his toronto athleticism in new jersey

Tmac injuries as well

Kobe was healthy in those years

[ShawkFactory]

Tmac was actually a fantastic defensive player earlier on. Once 2003 or so hit where his team was bullshit and he had to do everything offensively he took a step back on that end. And then the back stuff did the rest.

But he just didn’t have the pure psychopathic desire that Kobe did.

Vince didn’t have the handles or first step that either of the other guys had. But he was a better shooter than both, and probably the smoothest pure athlete

[Kenny Griffin]

McGrady is different. Carter and Kobe are similar, but Carter just never had the players Kobe did. And also, Vince never had refs rigging games for the Raptors and Nets, whereas without the refs, kobe has half the championships he had. Maybe none.

Lakers over Blazers.

Lakers over Kings.

Refs won those games and Lakers should have never advanced.

you will die here crying about kobe

[RachlNicholsazz]

Don't forget besides being stronger and quicker than the cousins, Kobe was light years more intelligent although that Colorado thing wasn't his best moment. Tmac bought a Lamborghini, couldn't figure out how to drive stick so had it converted to an automatic.

[Phoenix]

No, Kobe was faster than him.

Every time they matched up one on one in 03 McGrady needed screens, and Kobe didn't.

One other thing Kobe and Jordan had over a guy like Carter was they needed 0 time to "gather" on their jumps. They just exploded in an instant, where Carter seemed to need more time.

Here's a 2002/3 season matchup. Sometimes TMac scored just shooting over the top, a few times he used screens ( as did Kobe in a couple of instances). Kobe had the lateral movement to limit Tmac's slashing but if Tmac just decided to pull up and shoot with his height, elevation and length then Kobe( nor anyone else, really) is fukking with that. Any Tmac/Kobe matchup( like this one) that has Shaq on the court for the Lakers isn't exactly an apples-to-apples mano a mano, anyway.

[TheGoatest]

The 3 biggest differences:







In the post-Shaq, but pre-Kwame for Pau trade seasons Kobe was very similar to the other two.

[eliteballer]

Here's a 2002/3 season matchup. Sometimes TMac scored just shooting over the top, a few times he used screens ( as did Kobe in a couple of instances). Kobe had the lateral movement to limit Tmac's slashing but if Tmac just decided to pull up and shoot with his height, elevation and length then Kobe( nor anyone else, really) is fukking with that. Any Tmac/Kobe matchup( like this one) that has Shaq on the court for the Lakers isn't exactly an apples-to-apples mano a mano, anyway.

Those are highlights. Watch the game and you’ll see McGrady had to keep using screens to get around him. Also watch their 04 matchup where Kobe completely outplayed him on both ends.

[Phoenix]

Those are highlights. Watch the game and you’ll see McGrady had to keep using screens to get around him. Also watch their 04 matchup where Kobe completely outplayed him on both ends.

Of course they're highlights. They're showing the occurrences where they interacted with each other. I'm not even disagreeing with you fundamentally, I'm just saying that 'every time Kobe defended Tmac he needed a screen' as you said above is not accurate ( that's assuming you didn't intend to be taken literally, but one can rarely tell on this forum) and all I need is a highlight video showing specific plays between the two to prove this. I don't need to watch the entire game in this case if I'm specifically looking to validate ( or invalidate) your claim that Tmac needed a screen 'every time' Kobe defended him.

[ZenMaster]

Kobe was just too good.

[paksat]

Of course they're highlights. They're showing the occurrences where they interacted with each other. I'm not even disagreeing with you fundamentally, I'm just saying that 'every time Kobe defended Tmac he needed a screen' as you said above is not accurate ( that's assuming you didn't intend to be taken literally, but one can rarely tell on this forum) and all I need is a highlight video showing specific plays between the two to prove this. I don't need to watch the entire game in this case if I'm specifically looking to validate ( or invalidate) your claim that Tmac needed a screen 'every time' Kobe defended him.

apparently kobe can't fight through a screen either I guess?

this is just silly to say that tmac needed screens to score on kobe anyway, I can remember one instance right off the top of my head where tmac did a fake spin and kobe fell so hard for the fake that both his hands ended up hitting the floor.

tmac doesn't have trouble scoring on ANYONE, let alone kobe

[eliteballer]

Of course they're highlights. They're showing the occurrences where they interacted with each other. I'm not even disagreeing with you fundamentally, I'm just saying that 'every time Kobe defended Tmac he needed a screen' as you said above is not accurate ( that's assuming you didn't intend to be taken literally, but one can rarely tell on this forum) and all I need is a highlight video showing specific plays between the two to prove this. I don't need to watch the entire game in this case if I'm specifically looking to validate ( or invalidate) your claim that Tmac needed a screen 'every time' Kobe defended him.

You're pointlessly splitting hairs by taking it literally. Go watch that entire 03 game. McGrady consistently needed screens to shake Kobe on offense, and Kobe did not need screens to blow past McGrady on the other end

apparently kobe can't fight through a screen either I guess?

this is just silly to say that tmac needed screens to score on kobe anyway, I can remember one instance right off the top of my head where tmac did a fake spin and kobe fell so hard for the fake that both his hands ended up hitting the floor.

tmac doesn't have trouble scoring on ANYONE, let alone kobe

McGrady stepped on Kobe's foot on that spin.

I'm talking strictly about McGrady's ability to beat Kobe off the dribble in that game, he couldn't.