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  1. #31
    7-time NBA All-Star tontoz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are pro vaxxers ok with these mandates killing people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronbron23 View Post
    I agree somewhat. I'd say the only people that have a great reason not to get vaccinated is children, young adults and covid patients. I'd say people worrying about vaccine complications have a low/medium reason to not want the vaccine. It is a new vaccine and virus that we're learning and things change everyday with this thing.

    Also there is concern from some experts about vaccine complications being under reported significantly. I don't like to get into that because it's to unknown and i like using facts and or common sense and this isn't either but if we can agree government, media and big pharma have lied and have huge influence it shouldn't be an as crazy of a worry as people like you make it sound. It's kind of funny really. It be like if there was a guy who lied, stole, killed and used his power to influence others and i told you that you should trust him. You'd look at my like i was crazy. This is basically what people like you are doing. Calling people nuts because they don't trust a government that kills, lies, steals, and abuses its power and influence. Because they don't trust the media that lies continually and because they don't trust big pharma who can be corrupt and greedy.

    Again i don't like using these arguments because i like stuff i can prove with numbers but at the same time i don't think those reasons make their hesitancy nuts.

    The federal government isn't where I am getting.my info on the effectiveness of the vaccines or the hospitalizations and deaths of the unvaxed.

    State governments aren't starting wars or ordering drone strikes. Neither are hospitals or the CDC. You can't lump everyone in to the federal government or the.media.

    The data is overwhelming about what is going on.

    At this point you can't really blame mandates for much of anything. They are recent for the most part and in many cases not even in effect.yet.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Why are pro vaxxers ok with these mandates killing people?

    Quote Originally Posted by tontoz View Post
    The federal government isn't where I am getting.my info on the effectiveness of the vaccines or the hospitalizations and deaths of the unvaxed.

    State governments aren't starting wars or ordering drone strikes. Neither are hospitals or the CDC. You can't lump everyone in to the federal government or the.media.

    The data is overwhelming about what is going on.

    At this point you can't really blame mandates for much of anything. They are recent for the most part and in many cases not even in effect.yet.
    You can definitely blame the mandates. I should you why and frankly it's not arguable just easily ignored.

  3. #33
    7-time NBA All-Star tontoz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are pro vaxxers ok with these mandates killing people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronbron23 View Post
    You can definitely blame the mandates. I should you why and frankly it's not arguable just easily ignored.

    What specifically have the government mandates done?

    Bidens mandate won't even be in effect until November and isn't a real mandate anyway.

  4. #34
    Whap'em ZenMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are pro vaxxers ok with these mandates killing people?

    Quote Originally Posted by tontoz View Post
    So you think they are earning 400-800% on each dose?

    Care to back that up with anything? Their earnings reports certainly aren't showing that.

    An antibody test doesn't provide any protection at all and costs twice as much as a vaccine. Not hard to see why they are doing things the way they are. At some point when more data is in on natural immunity they may grant a waiver.

    Let's not forget that Biden's mandate isn't exactly a mandate, it is a choice. You can choose to get vaccinated or you can choose to get a covid test once a week.

    What a travesty, submitting to a weekly covid test. Straight out of Nazi Germany.
    The number I found said a vaccine costs $2.38 to produce, if they charge $20, I figured it would be in that range depending on shipping costs to different places vs where it's produced.

    Feel free to find the real number, it won't help your argument as it's clear they're making more money than ever before.

    Point is that the dynamic around the vaccines is out of whack. If it's as bad as they say, Pfizer would have an interest in getting it out to as many people as possible worldwide as fast as possible, or else they won't have any old people to sell medication to..

    Also, they way they're doing it is literally leading to a lot of people not wanting to take it due to lack of transparency.

  5. #35
    7-time NBA All-Star tontoz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are pro vaxxers ok with these mandates killing people?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster View Post
    The number I found said a vaccine costs $2.38 to produce, if they charge $20, I figured it would be in that range depending on shipping costs to different places vs where it's produced.

    Feel free to find the real number, it won't help your argument as it's clear they're making more money than ever before.

    Point is that the dynamic around the vaccines is out of whack. If it's as bad as they say, Pfizer would have an interest in getting it out to as many people as possible worldwide as fast as possible, or else they won't have any old people to sell medication to..

    Also, they way they're doing it is literally leading to a lot of people not wanting to take it due to lack of transparency.



    First of all the costs of a drug don't just include production. There is also R&D, testing, storage, distribution etc.

    Manny already unwittingly posted the fallacy about these allegedly huge profits they are making. Pfizer already reported they expect vaccine revenue to be about $33 billion per year.

    Let's assume that the total cost of the drug is $4. That leaves $16 profit per dose, over $26 billion net income for the year from the vaccine alone.

    Back in 2019 Pfizer reported net income for the year of $16 billion. With these huge alleged vaccine profits their income for this year should be close to $40 billion.

    Over the first 6 months they reported 10.5 billion net income so they are on track to increase their income by roughly 30% over 2019, not quite the windfall you were expecting.

    That falls in line with their reported profit margin of 30% per dose. This is not complex math.
    Last edited by tontoz; 09-24-2021 at 10:09 AM.

  6. #36
    7-time NBA All-Star tontoz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are pro vaxxers ok with these mandates killing people?

    Correction. That $33 billion revenue number is just for this year.

  7. #37
    I get superstar calls j3lademaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are pro vaxxers ok with these mandates killing people?

    Quote Originally Posted by tontoz View Post


    First of all the costs of a drug don't just include production. There is also R&D, testing, storage, distribution etc.

    Manny already unwittingly posted the fallacy about these allegedly huge profits they are making. Pfizer already reported they expect vaccine revenue to be about $33 billion per year.

    Let's assume that the total cost of the drug is $4. That leaves $16 profit per dose, over $26 billion net income for the year from the vaccine alone.

    Back in 2019 Pfizer reported net income for the year of $16 billion. With these huge alleged vaccine profits their income for this year should be close to $40 billion.

    Over the first 6 months they reported 10.5 billion net income so they are on track to increase their income by roughly 30% over 2019, not quite the windfall you were expecting.

    That falls in line with their reported profit margin of 30% per dose. This is not complex math.
    Need to put this into context that most multibillion dollar corps are booming. Musk has raised his net worth from 26bil in the beginning of 2020 to almost 200bil now. Rhianna is a billionaire now. So yeah Pfizer's increase in profits aren't shit in comparison.

  8. #38
    Whap'em ZenMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are pro vaxxers ok with these mandates killing people?

    Quote Originally Posted by tontoz View Post


    First of all the costs of a drug don't just include production. There is also R&D, testing, storage, distribution etc.

    Manny already unwittingly posted the fallacy about these allegedly huge profits they are making. Pfizer already reported they expect vaccine revenue to be about $33 billion per year.

    Let's assume that the total cost of the drug is $4. That leaves $16 profit per dose, over $26 billion net income for the year from the vaccine alone.

    Back in 2019 Pfizer reported net income for the year of $16 billion. With these huge alleged vaccine profits their income for this year should be close to $40 billion.

    Over the first 6 months they reported 10.5 billion net income so they are on track to increase their income by roughly 30% over 2019, not quite the windfall you were expecting.

    That falls in line with their reported profit margin of 30% per dose. This is not complex math.
    Fair enough.

    “Moderna’s profiting from the vaccine is outrageous,” says SOMO Researcher Vincent Kiezebrink. “As a society, we pay three times: we fund vaccine development research; we pay inflated prices to purchase those vaccines; and then Moderna uses tax structures to avoid corporate taxes.”
    I don't know this source, but I'm using it as it projects an actual profit number for Moderna and not just revenue.

    A total of 1.5 billion doses of the Moderna vaccine have been ordered for 2021 and 2022, with 460 million doses for the EU and 500 million for the US. This will cost the European Union $10.3 billion and de United States $7.5 billion. It is estimated that the company will generate some $18.4 billion in revenue from coronavirus vaccine sales in 2021 alone.

    SOMO calculates that Moderna’s profit margin is 44 per cent per dose, generating some $8 billion in profits for 2021. Despite this high margin, the company has indicated that it expects to raise vaccine prices after the pandemic ends.
    Last edited by ZenMaster; 09-24-2021 at 02:52 PM.

  9. #39
    Not airballing my layups anymore
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    Default Re: Why are pro vaxxers ok with these mandates killing people?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster View Post
    Here is some very simple math for you. If Moderna profits 8 billion on 1.5 billion doses, it means they could have cut the price in half and still profited 4 billion. Had they only charged a quarter of the current price, they would profit 2 billion - that's 2000 million dollars. You can calculate down yourself from there.
    If they cut the price in half they probably take a loss. So much for simple math.

  10. #40
    College superstar diamenz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are pro vaxxers ok with these mandates killing people?

    Quote Originally Posted by j3lademaster View Post
    Need to put this into context that most multibillion dollar corps are booming. Musk has raised his net worth from 26bil in the beginning of 2020 to almost 200bil now. Rhianna is a billionaire now. So yeah Pfizer's increase in profits aren't shit in comparison.
    billionaires have gotten more than 50% richer during the pandemic while the working class have gotten poorer and lost their jobs. but where's all of the uproar and outrage over this wealth redistribution?

    https://ips-dc.org/u-s-billionaires-...ring-pandemic/
    Last edited by diamenz; 09-24-2021 at 02:17 PM.

  11. #41
    I get superstar calls j3lademaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are pro vaxxers ok with these mandates killing people?

    Quote Originally Posted by diamenz View Post
    billionaires have gotten more than 50% richer during the pandemic while the working class have gotten poorer and lost their jobs. but where's all of the uproar and outrage over this wealth redistribution?

    https://ips-dc.org/u-s-billionaires-...ring-pandemic/
    we're too busy fighting over red vs blue. We need to realize it's a smokescreen the wealthy created to direct our attention elsewhere. We need to realize the billionaires are the true leeches on society, they don't bring any value. And IF we tax Amazon too much and they leave, so what? Amazon is Amazon because of the US market; not because of Jeff Bezos. If they're stupid enough to leave the American market someone else will take their place.

  12. #42
    Whap'em ZenMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are pro vaxxers ok with these mandates killing people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Off the Court View Post
    If they cut the price in half they probably take a loss. So much for simple math.
    lol yeah excuse me

    But they could still lower the price by about $4 per unit if costs are around the same as Pfizer and make a killing.

    They have the worlds hottest physical product, for which they received funding to develop and have minimal storage costs as it's shipped right away.
    Last edited by ZenMaster; 09-24-2021 at 02:54 PM.

  13. #43
    7-time NBA All-Star tontoz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are pro vaxxers ok with these mandates killing people?

    Moderna is only charging the US govt $15 per dose compared to $20 for Pfizer. Moderna is a different because this is the first drug they brought to market. Our government made a big investment in them which is why they are charging us less.


    In exchange for assuming the risk of developing the vaccine, Pfizer charged the government more for each dose in its initial contract, about $19.50, compared with $15 a dose charged by Moderna.

    Moderna’s vaccine also has had a far bigger impact on the biotech than Pfizer’s vaccine has had on the pharmaceutical giant. Moderna, an 11-year-old company, had never gotten a product to market before the FDA cleared the vaccine. I
    https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/04/...accine-effort/

    So obviously this is a windfall for moderna, and their stockholders.

  14. #44
    NBA lottery pick SATAN's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are pro vaxxers ok with these mandates killing people?

    Disappointing.

    Might have to change the name to KyrieKyrie11, OP.

  15. #45
    NBA lottery pick SATAN's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are pro vaxxers ok with these mandates killing people?

    Grow up.

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