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  1. #16
    Lol RRR3's Avatar
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #24

    Quote Originally Posted by L.Kizzle View Post
    He made the Finals 2 seasons before Jerry West was even drafted.
    Yeah playing with two hall of gamers and an 8 time allstar. And then he got swept.

  2. #17
    NBA Legend kuniva_dAMiGhTy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #24

    I'll go Baylor.

    The 'inflated stats' argument could've been used for players beforehand. Like w/ West and Ocar. Its a valid one, but it needs to be applied across the map.

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #24

    Quote Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy View Post
    I'll go Baylor.

    The 'inflated stats' argument could've been used for players beforehand. Like w/ West and Ocar. Its a valid one, but it needs to be applied across the map.
    It isn't just a matter of inflated stats. Again, West and Oscar had styles of play that would have translated just fine in any era of basketball that we've seen be played so far. Baylor didn't. Now mind you, Oscar Robertson like Baylor was another example of an empty stats player. But you know what? He has a championship on top of still at least being an extremely skilled player who wasn't blessed with hall of fame teammates like Baylor was.

    Regardless, with your vote, I believe that makes it a tie between Pippen and Baylor.

  4. #19
    I rule the local playground Thenameless's Avatar
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #24

    Quote Originally Posted by dankok8 View Post
    I'm going with Baylor then Havlicek. Don't understand the hating on Baylor. Look at what he did in the finals in 1962... averaged 40.6/17.9/3.7 on 51.0 %TS (+3.1 rTS) against the mighty Celtics. Remember we are comparing players relative to their eras. Baylor was an absolute stud. And again until a few years ago when modern players like Curry and KD started appearing he was a staple in the top 20.
    Now, I did vote for Baylor this round, but I think it's a mix of how good they were relative to their era, how good they were in absolute terms, and how well their game translates to different eras.

    If we just go with how well the player dominated his peers/era, then George Mikan would have probably kicked the door in a while back. I'm pretty sure for his era, Mikan was more dominant than say Olajuwon, who is ranked 10th on our list. I might bleed Purple and Gold, but if I could add one of them to the current Lakers team, it would be Olajuwon.

  5. #20
    2.0 patch Phoenix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #24

    I may be going full retard here, but I've been throwing around a few names in my head. I feel like guys like Wilt, Russell, West, Oscar, are just going to ( rightly or otherwise) get the benefit of doubt that their greatness would transcend eras and always be viewed as top 10-15 titans of the game. Guys like Baylor, Havlicek, Pettit I'm less certain about even if they were superstars in their own era( meaning ranking them based on relative dominance compared to the dominance of other players in other eras.....all extremely subjective and contextual stuff). With that said, and some of this may projecting where I think he's going to go with his career over the next few seasons, and taking into account he's not going to get voted in for at least another 3 rounds or so anyway, so fukkit:



    Again, this may be full retard and I accept that opinion from others( and to be clear, I'm having to really convince myself hard on this one hence this bloated diatribe). But when I look at someone like David Robinson, and I'm not making the argument for whose peak was/is better at this time, and what he did( but also, what he didn't until Duncan came onboard)...... I look at the last 5 seasons of Freak's career and I'm asking how much ahead in the rankings should the Admiral be now or over the next few years based on my projections:

    27/11/6/1/1 55%, 62% TS, 29 PER season
    27/12/5/1/1 55%, 59% TS, 27 PER playoffs
    5 time All-NBA
    4 Time all-Defense
    Back to back MVP 2019, 2020
    DPOY 2020

    5 years of work...........that's all-time shit, people. Yes, longevity matters so feel free to sneer away. I get it. But if the last half decade is any indication, all of those accolades could double, and he'd be barely 31 with time to write even more chapters. No, I can't rank him on what he hasn't done or 'could' do, I'm just looking at what he is, what he's already done. Note that I haven't mentioned the 2021 NBA ring and Finals MVP yet. That's the 'well actualllly' part of the conversation. I get it......the string of injured bodies last playoffs facilitated a path to a chip that probably wasn't there otherwise. Or Kevin Durant's foot being a few inches further back. Whatever. Giannis himself went down at one point, and recovered to drop 50 in the championship closeout game. Bounces here and there, injuries here and there, that's determined alot things in basketball. Who wins and loses. Who goes down as a top 10 player or who barely makes the top 20. The wrong bounce, the right bounce. Shit happens. Giannis is mostly going it alone relative to other upper echelon guys. Lebron has AD( and vice versa), Harden has KD( and vice versa). Out of the players with serious championship hopes, he's the only one working with someone who may be barely top 25 on his best day. Middleton is nice, but let's be real. Yes, he's got a sound team around him.....but give him a top 10 player. The league would be in trouble.

    So come @ me. I probably won't even argue why Baylor should be here, or Petit, or CP3, or Isiah, or whoever else you want to throw in. I'm casting my vote now for when ISH puts him in around 27 or 28( I suspect).

    Moving on to coffee #3.....
    Last edited by Phoenix; 10-15-2021 at 07:21 AM.

  6. #21
    harden fan outofstomach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #24

    Quote Originally Posted by Chick Stern View Post
    Still Baylor.

    and Wade - rofl
    you’re an idiot

  7. #22
    I rule the local playground Thenameless's Avatar
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #24

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    I may be going full retard here, but I've been throwing around a few names in my head. I feel like guys like Wilt, Russell, West, Oscar, are just going to ( rightly or otherwise) get the benefit of doubt that their greatness would transcend eras and always be viewed as top 10-15 titans of the game. Guys like Baylor, Havlicek, Pettit I'm less certain about even if they were superstars in their own era( meaning ranking them based on relative dominance compared to the dominance of other players in other eras.....all extremely subjective and contextual stuff). With that said, and some of this may projecting where I think he's going to go with his career over the next few seasons, and taking into account he's not going to get voted in for at least another 3 rounds or so anyway, so fukkit:



    Again, this may be full retard and I accept that opinion from others( and to be clear, I'm having to really convince myself hard on this one hence this bloated diatribe). But when I look at someone like David Robinson, and I'm not making the argument for whose peak was/is better at this time, and what he did( but also, what he didn't until Duncan came onboard)...... I look at the last 5 seasons of Freak's career and I'm asking how much ahead in the rankings should the Admiral be now or over the next few years based on my projections:

    27/11/6/1/1 55%, 62% TS, 29 PER season
    27/12/5/1/1 55%, 59% TS, 27 PER playoffs
    5 time All-NBA
    4 Time all-Defense
    Back to back MVP 2019, 2020
    DPOY 2020

    5 years of work...........that's all-time shit, people. Yes, longevity matters so feel free to sneer away. I get it. But if the last half decade is any indication, all of those accolades could double, and he'd be barely 31 with time to write even more chapters. No, I can't rank him on what he hasn't done or 'could' do, I'm just looking at what he is, what he's already done. Note that I haven't mentioned the 2021 NBA ring and Finals MVP yet. That's the 'well actualllly' part of the conversation. I get it......the string of injured bodies last playoffs facilitated a path to a chip that probably wasn't there otherwise. Or Kevin Durant's foot being a few inches further back. Whatever. Giannis himself went down at one point, and recovered to drop 50 in the championship closeout game. Bounces here and there, injuries here and there, that's determined alot things in basketball. Who wins and loses. Who goes down as a top 10 player or who barely makes the top 20. The wrong bounce, the right bounce. Shit happens. Giannis is mostly going it alone relative to other upper echelon guys. Lebron has AD( and vice versa), Harden has KD( and vice versa). Out of the players with serious championship hopes, he's the only one working with someone who may be barely top 25 on his best day. Middleton is nice, but let's be real. Yes, he's got a sound team around him.....but give him a top 10 player. The league would be in trouble.

    So come @ me. I probably won't even argue why Baylor should be here, or Petit, or CP3, or Isiah, or whoever else you want to throw in. I'm casting my vote now for when ISH puts him in around 27 or 28( I suspect).

    Moving on to coffee #3.....
    There's nothing wrong with holding Giannis in high regard. He's basically done it all now, and he's still young. And, like he said, he did it the hard way.

    One thing I will say in defense of The Admiral though was that he started his career a little later than the norm, because of his service to the Navy. And when he finally did, it was one of the biggest turnarounds in NBA history for a franchise (Spurs improved by 35 wins in his rookie season). Robinson's resume ain't half-bad either with a scoring title, DPoY, and MVP. Yes, he didn't win until Duncan came along, but it takes a team.

  8. #23
    2.0 patch Phoenix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #24

    Quote Originally Posted by Thenameless View Post

    One thing I will say in defense of The Admiral though was that he started his career a little later than the norm, because of his service to the Navy. And when he finally did, it was one of the biggest turnarounds in NBA history for a franchise (Spurs improved by 35 wins in his rookie season). Robinson's resume ain't half-bad either with a scoring title, DPoY, and MVP. Yes, he didn't win until Duncan came along, but it takes a team.
    I get that, and like I said I'm not trying to argue like Giannis is a better player than Robinson ever was at his best. Robinson was more skilled overall and a better rim protector. That being said, that whole notion of 'relative dominance' I spoke to earlier? For me Giannis right now is at least 'relatively' as dominant on an individual level as Robinson was back in 1994 in 'his' era. The production is there. He's won more MVPs. He won the DPOY( as did Robinson). Multiple all-NBA first teams. The output of his talents is putting him at least on-par( in terms of results) with what Robinson was doing between 90 and 95, except Giannis was able to go all the way( with the caveat of all the injuries of course, but that's not Giannis fault and he himself got injured). He should get some credit for being the last man standing last year whatever circumstances led to that.

    Robinson should be ranked higher, but I don't feel like there should be more than 5 spots between them and Giannis is still writing his story. I don't expect Giannis to get voted in at 24, and perhaps he shouldn't, but I do feel he should be in the discussion at this stage.

  9. #24
    Learning to shoot layups
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #24

    Yes, im also on Giannis board obviously, lets theorize and say he wins the title this year too, where would this put him? id say on the dream level roughly.

  10. #25
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer warriorfan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #24

    Baylor. He was a force and a precursor for the modern game.

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #24

    Giannis absolutely deserves discussion at this point. He already has multiple MVP's, a DPOY award, multiple all NBA and all defense selections, and now he's an NBA Champion with a finals MVP award. There are guys with less accolades who are already on this list. And what's crazy is that he's only 26 years old and has so many more years ahead of him. He doesn't get my vote at this point yet, but I think he definitely belongs in the 25-30 player range right now.

  12. #27
    Trust the process. Bankaii's Avatar
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #24

    Quote Originally Posted by Thenameless View Post
    There's nothing wrong with holding Giannis in high regard. He's basically done it all now, and he's still young. And, like he said, he did it the hard way.
    "The hard way" lmao. He won due to extreme injuries (worse than ever in history). Even without the injuries, Giannis has one of the best supporting casts in the league. Nothing he did was any more difficult than other greats (outside of KD).

    Since we've already overrated all the other past greats, I'll vote Baylor.

  13. #28
    2.0 patch Phoenix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #24

    Bump. Man you all are tapping out already . Getting to 50 is gonna be brutal.

  14. #29
    Goatbrook SouBeachTalents's Avatar
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #24

    I'm too lazy to do the math, what's the count right now?

  15. #30
    2.0 patch Phoenix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #24

    Quote Originally Posted by SouBeachTalents View Post
    I'm too lazy to do the math, what's the count right now?
    Kind tough sifting through all the comments but I think Baylor has 8, Pippen 7

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