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  1. #16
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #25

    I gotta go with Pippen on this one.

  2. #17
    Local High School Star Chick Stern's Avatar
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #25

    Isiah

  3. #18
    Embiid > Jokic SouBeachTalents's Avatar
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #25

    ISH has done really well on this list for the most part, but I'm starting to really disagree with the votes coming in. Rankings are obv subjective, and it's not like it's some outrage for the guys who are getting votes now to be put in the top 25. But I just don't see how guys like Isiah & Pippen are getting top 25 consideration when there's really no metric; production, resume, advanced numbers etc. that would put them in this spot. Giannis would certainly have that, but I would honestly feel grimy putting him that high after such a blatantly fluky title. No way would he be getting top 25 votes without it.

    I'm honestly shocked guys like Harden & Barry have zero votes right now when, rangz aside, their individual resumes are as good as virtually anybody else still remaining. And personally, I'd vote for guys like Pettit, Hondo, CP3 & Kawhi over the likes of Pip & Isiah.

  4. #19
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 1987_Lakers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #25

    Quote Originally Posted by SouBeachTalents View Post
    ISH has done really well on this list for the most part, but I'm starting to really disagree with the votes coming in. Rankings are obv subjective, and it's not like it's some outrage for the guys who are getting votes now to be put in the top 25. But I just don't see how guys like Isiah & Pippen are getting top 25 consideration when there's really no metric; production, resume, advanced numbers etc. that would put them in this spot. Giannis would certainly have that, but I would honestly feel grimy putting him that high after such a blatantly fluky title. No way would he be getting top 25 votes without it.

    I'm honestly shocked guys like Harden & Barry have zero votes right now when, rangz aside, their individual resumes are as good as virtually anybody else still remaining. And personally, I'd vote for guys like Pettit, Hondo, CP3 & Kawhi over the likes of Pip & Isiah.
    I agree, seems weird to see Pippen getting the majority of votes when there are clearly better players out there. Isiah is also overrated due to his rings in an era of MJ, Magic, & Bird, but once you take a deeper look on how Isiah performed during his team's back to back title runs, you come off kinda of unimpressed with him, Detroit was loaded as a team.

    Harden always gets the most illogical hate, yes his style of play and aloof personality turns alot of people off, but there is no doubt as far as on court production, he is one of the elites of the elites.

  5. #20
    Embiid > Jokic SouBeachTalents's Avatar
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #25

    Quote Originally Posted by 1987_Lakers View Post
    I agree, seems weird to see Pippen getting the majority of votes when there are clearly better players out there. Isiah is also overrated due to his rings in an era of MJ, Magic, & Bird, but once you take a deeper look on how Isiah performed during his team's back to back title runs, you come off kinda of unimpressed with him, Detroit was loaded as a team.

    Harden always gets the most illogical hate, yes his style of play and aloof personality turns alot of people off, but there is no doubt as far as on court production, he is one of the elites of the elites.
    If you were to rank the playoff run of every title team's best player since the merger/3 point line, with the exception of the '04 Pistons & '14 Spurs, Isiah would legitimately have the worst two, or be very close to it (esp '89). Of the guys still remaining Hondo, Barry & Kawhi all have title runs that were clearly better and/or more impressive than Isiah's, so the rangz argument just doesn't hold up for him imo

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #25

    Quote Originally Posted by SouBeachTalents View Post
    ISH has done really well on this list for the most part, but I'm starting to really disagree with the votes coming in. Rankings are obv subjective, and it's not like it's some outrage for the guys who are getting votes now to be put in the top 25. But I just don't see how guys like Isiah & Pippen are getting top 25 consideration when there's really no metric; production, resume, advanced numbers etc. that would put them in this spot. Giannis would certainly have that, but I would honestly feel grimy putting him that high after such a blatantly fluky title. No way would he be getting top 25 votes without it.

    I'm honestly shocked guys like Harden & Barry have zero votes right now when, rangz aside, their individual resumes are as good as virtually anybody else still remaining. And personally, I'd vote for guys like Pettit, Hondo, CP3 & Kawhi over the likes of Pip & Isiah.
    Guys like Paul and Hondo definitely need more consideration. But to me, there isn't anything really wrong with putting Pippen at 25, assuming that's how this vote goes. The thing that's tricky with him is that his best days were always as a secondary to Jordan. The sample size for what he could do as the best player on a team is very small, but what we get is pretty incredible. 3rd in MVP voting in the first year, losing his all star teammate and still keeping his team around .500 the following year are great feats. He's the best defensive player (and arguably the best all around player) who still hasn't been slotted yet.

    And we need to keep in mind that career achievements are still very important here. The man has 6 championships and, what, 8 or 9 all defensive team selections? 7 all NBA selections? He was even the steals leader in 95. For a guy who spent most of his career as the second best player on his team, that's an absurd resume. If a guy like Baylor, who I did concede deserves recognition over Pippen, is getting in already just based mostly on inflated stats from an era that made that possible, I see no reason as to why Pippen doesn't deserve consideration at this point. At least, that's my line of thinking on the matter.

    I will say however that it is weird that guys like Paul and Hondo aren't receiving the same type of consideration yet. Pettit is also another name who should be getting more votes this time around. Kawhi doesn't deserve any votes right now, and shouldn't be getting any type of consideration until we get past the 30 mark.

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #25

    Quote Originally Posted by 1987_Lakers View Post
    I agree, seems weird to see Pippen getting the majority of votes when there are clearly better players out there. Isiah is also overrated due to his rings in an era of MJ, Magic, & Bird, but once you take a deeper look on how Isiah performed during his team's back to back title runs, you come off kinda of unimpressed with him, Detroit was loaded as a team.

    Harden always gets the most illogical hate, yes his style of play and aloof personality turns alot of people off, but there is no doubt as far as on court production, he is one of the elites of the elites.
    I wouldn't call Harden hate illogical. There are a lot of people, myself included, who heavily dislike his style of play and we're going to likely see a slide in production this year with his favorite type of fouls now being taken away (well that and he's playing with Durant but you get my point). But my main reason for not liking him is the simple fact that there is a huge difference between regular season Harden and playoff Harden.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #25

    This is a name that I just randomly thought of, but determining where Steve Nash belongs at this point will probably be the most tricky part about this list. Nash is one of the top 5 most skilled point guards of all time and has won the MVP award twice, but he never won a ring as a player and was horrific defensively.

  9. #24
    Euros rule NBA, UMAD? Phoenix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #25

    Quote Originally Posted by SouBeachTalents View Post
    ISH has done really well on this list for the most part, but I'm starting to really disagree with the votes coming in. Rankings are obv subjective, and it's not like it's some outrage for the guys who are getting votes now to be put in the top 25. But I just don't see how guys like Isiah & Pippen are getting top 25 consideration when there's really no metric; production, resume, advanced numbers etc. that would put them in this spot. Giannis would certainly have that, but I would honestly feel grimy putting him that high after such a blatantly fluky title. No way would he be getting top 25 votes without it.

    I'm honestly shocked guys like Harden & Barry have zero votes right now when, rangz aside, their individual resumes are as good as virtually anybody else still remaining. And personally, I'd vote for guys like Pettit, Hondo, CP3 & Kawhi over the likes of Pip & Isiah.
    I put more stock in Giannis having two MVPs, a DPOY and his numbers. The chip should be the least consideration but I do feel like everything else he's done *minus* the title gets him top 30 consideration. At that point it's about how much stock one chooses to put into the title/FMVP given the conditions.

    This actually is the fun part of the exercise though, because we're really getting into the nitty-gritty. The top 10/15 are generally pretty easy to rank, but now we're at the 'just below the elite of the elite but still all-time great level' and there's just a big clump of guys who realistically could be ranked 20-30.
    Last edited by Phoenix; 10-16-2021 at 04:57 PM.

  10. #25
    Very good NBA starter Round Mound's Avatar
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #25

    Isiah

  11. #26
    Euros rule NBA, UMAD? Phoenix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #25


  12. #27
    Lol RRR3's Avatar
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #25

    Quote Originally Posted by SouBeachTalents View Post
    ISH has done really well on this list for the most part, but I'm starting to really disagree with the votes coming in. Rankings are obv subjective, and it's not like it's some outrage for the guys who are getting votes now to be put in the top 25. But I just don't see how guys like Isiah & Pippen are getting top 25 consideration when there's really no metric; production, resume, advanced numbers etc. that would put them in this spot. Giannis would certainly have that, but I would honestly feel grimy putting him that high after such a blatantly fluky title. No way would he be getting top 25 votes without it.

    I'm honestly shocked guys like Harden & Barry have zero votes right now when, rangz aside, their individual resumes are as good as virtually anybody else still remaining. And personally, I'd vote for guys like Pettit, Hondo, CP3 & Kawhi over the likes of Pip & Isiah.
    You should know by know ISH is full of absolute ****ing morons who are blinded by RANGZ. No one uses context here outside of a few.

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #25

    Pippen

  14. #29
    Serious playground baller
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #25

    Quote Originally Posted by 1987_Lakers View Post
    I agree, seems weird to see Pippen getting the majority of votes when there are clearly better players out there. Isiah is also overrated due to his rings in an era of MJ, Magic, & Bird, but once you take a deeper look on how Isiah performed during his team's back to back title runs, you come off kinda of unimpressed with him, Detroit was loaded as a team.

    Harden always gets the most illogical hate, yes his style of play and aloof personality turns alot of people off, but there is no doubt as far as on court production, he is one of the elites of the elites.
    That is ur opinion. Others disagree

  15. #30
    Good college starter BigShotBob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #25

    Quote Originally Posted by 1987_Lakers View Post
    I agree, seems weird to see Pippen getting the majority of votes when there are clearly better players out there. Isiah is also overrated due to his rings in an era of MJ, Magic, & Bird, but once you take a deeper look on how Isiah performed during his team's back to back title runs, you come off kinda of unimpressed with him, Detroit was loaded as a team.

    Harden always gets the most illogical hate, yes his style of play and aloof personality turns alot of people off, but there is no doubt as far as on court production, he is one of the elites of the elites.
    You literally haven't watched the games if you think so. He was the best combination of scoring and passing pg in his era, he was also a dog defensively and extremely clutch with ATG handles.

    Literally no one here knows how good Zeke really was which is par for the course really.

    My vote is Isiah

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