Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Titles are overrated Kblaze8855's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    I love me some me.
    Posts
    25,888

    Default Are you able to acknowledge both of these truths? Or must you choose one?

    Watching the nfl today has brought this to mind. I speak specifically about Kyler Murray but it applies to the nba as well for reasons that should be clear.

    First the play in question…..






    That’s called a personal foul for roughing the passer. 15 yards and a first down….for that. It is indisputably a softer game than what offensive players had to deal with in the past.


    Saying that does NOT mean I don’t think Kyler is amazing. The league making defenders take it easy on him doesn’t mean this isn’t insane:









    It just means that the insanity….is partially assisted….by being protected.

    Careers are longer, hits are softer, guys pull up on plays they often can make because they don’t want to hit guts too hard or in the wrong place. It does make a difference.

    It does NOT mean today’s players aren’t amazingly skilled. I feel like two things must be acknowledged about both the nfl and nba…..




    1. Sports have softened in modern times because offense is sexy and safety of players is more important than making it fair to the defense.


    2. The modern players are unbelievable.




    It feels like too often someone only admits one of those things and wants to downplay the other.

    Id like to know where you stand.


    On the subject of modern leagues clearly favoring offenses(both the nfl and nba admitted a more fan friendly offensive game was the goal)….and modern players also being godly combos of athleticism and skill.


    Have you any problem admitting both of those things are true? I feeeeeel like some of us have trouble admitting both can be true at the same time.


    The nba can be soft relative to the past….and full of amazing players.

    Just like the nfl.

    Right?

  2. #2
    Decent college freshman BigShotBob's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    2,769

    Default Re: Are you able to acknowledge both of these truths? Or must you choose one?

    You touched on why that is though. Some players look amazing because of the rules. They are still skilled, but now they look even more so. In the second gif they couldn't get to him because they can't tackle him the way they want to. They have to size him up, and pretty much two hand touch/wrap him up safely (lol) and can't clip his legs which is what we were taught back in the day (go below the knees). There are less skilled open fielded tacklers nowadays because of the rules as well, that's all your second gif exemplifies to me.

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    8,953

    Default Re: Are you able to acknowledge both of these truths? Or must you choose one?

    I think both NBA and NFL have just used a spread offense that has unleashed statistics.

    It seems like every old guy complains about the era being soft though. A lot of people think today's era is soft? I bet you in 25 years from now a guy like retired Trae Young will be saying how the 2040s are soft compared to when he played in the 2020s. And so on and so on, every retired guy just likes to prop up their own era and downplay the current era.

    Tom brady dominated the 2000s and threw 50 touchdowns in a season and went 16-0 in 2007, now he's playing on a similar level. Lebron was pretty similar in the late 2000s as he was in the 2010s as well. So I don't see a huge difference when it comes to the best players.

  4. #4
    Titles are overrated Kblaze8855's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    I love me some me.
    Posts
    25,888

    Default Re: Are you able to acknowledge both of these truths? Or must you choose one?

    You touched on why that is though. Some players look amazing because of the rules. They are still skilled, but now they look even more so. In the second gif they couldn't get to him because they can't tackle him the way they want to. They have to size him up, and pretty much two hand touch/wrap him up safely (lol) and can't clip his legs which is what we were taught back in the day (go below the knees). There are less skilled open fielded tacklers nowadays because of the rules as well, that's all your second gif exemplifies to me.


    Well that may be to some degree. And Steph, Dame, and Trae literally cannot be defended the way Kobe, AI, Tmac and before them Jordan, Reggie, and Tim Hardaway were. The freedom of movement rules were enforced to prevent it.

    That doesn’t mean those players could just flip a switch and play like Steph and company given the rules in place.

    There are many other factors the greatest of which is a very different skill set.

    The league caters to modern offenses in general.

    The people being catered to still evolved in such a way as to be amazingly skilled at taking advantage and those skills are not possessed by anyone before them.

    They can both be catered to….and amazing.

    Thats all I need admitted and it seems some have trouble doing it.

    At least not without adding addition context I’m not sure is needed. But after 6 million words typed on ish who am to call anyone out for not keeping it simple?

  5. #5
    Decent college freshman BigShotBob's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    2,769

    Default Re: Are you able to acknowledge both of these truths? Or must you choose one?

    Quote Originally Posted by HBK_Kliq_2 View Post
    I think both NBA and NFL have just used a spread offense that has unleashed statistics.

    It seems like every old guy complains about the era being soft though. A lot of people think today's era is soft? I bet you in 25 years from now a guy like retired Trae Young will be saying how the 2040s are soft compared to when he played in the 2020s. And so on and so on, every retired guy just likes to prop up their own era and downplay the current era.

    Tom brady dominated the 2000s and threw 50 touchdowns in a season and went 16-0 in 2007, now he's playing on a similar level. Lebron was pretty similar in the late 2000s as he was in the 2010s as well. So I don't see a huge difference when it comes to the best players.
    The NFL and the NBA took a turn well before 2007. More so the NBA than the NFL, but the NFL has been going downhill since the late 90's.

  6. #6
    NBA Superstar eliteballer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    13,245

    Default Re: Are you able to acknowledge both of these truths? Or must you choose one?

    The modern NFL game is more entertaining, safer, and IMO requires more strategy.

    I mean look at this...



    It's a wonder not every old school player is in wheelchair.

  7. #7
    NBA Superstar eliteballer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    13,245

    Default Re: Are you able to acknowledge both of these truths? Or must you choose one?

    Frankly the quarterbacks should be protected, they are defenseless players.

  8. #8
    NBA Legend Jasper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Wisconsin farm
    Posts
    16,287

    Default Re: Are you able to acknowledge both of these truths? Or must you choose one?

    kblaze you have finally realized that the NFL is fixed ???

    I knew this at least 6 years ago , and after N.O. lost to the rams with back to back bull shit 'no' calls..
    I quit watching the NFL.

    MLB it is getting harder , and it would mean the Ump's are running the game.
    Quit frankly I believe is a cleaner game.

    NBA last seasons championship series , I saw missed calls - or what we would call 'no calls'
    Letting the players play... It got pretty rough , and both teams as well as the Net series had some wicked play.
    But now there is so much money on the line , that in my opinion , the referee's need to be paid a much greater sum
    and not slack off in any sport.

  9. #9
    NBA sixth man of the year FultzNationRISE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    7,137

    Default Re: Are you able to acknowledge both of these truths? Or must you choose one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kblaze8855 View Post

    The people being catered to still evolved in such a way as to be amazingly skilled at taking advantage and those skills are not possessed by anyone before them.

    They can both be catered to….and amazing.

    Thats all I need admitted and it seems some have trouble doing it.

    At least not without adding addition context I’m not sure is needed. But after 6 million words typed on ish who am to call anyone out for not keeping it simple?
    Thats exactly the point.

    The glory and money of sports make it probably one of, if not THE most competitive industries in the world. Youre going to get the very best of the best.

    Whatever the rules are in an era, youre going to get the absolute best players suited to those rules. The more different the rules become, the more different the players. Of course basketball is still basically the same game, the difference between the game today and in the 70s isnt as dramatic as the difference between basketball and another sport. So obviously you get a lot of guys who would be good basketball players no matter what. But I think typically the best players of a given era would lose SOMETHING by changing eras, even if it’s a drop from like top 10 to top 20. Anyone who dominates an era is going to have some degree of specialization to that era, in addition to whatever universal skill set he has.

    Obviously the exception is prime Lebron who would be BITW during any year of the existence of basketball.

  10. #10
    Saw a basketball once
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Are you able to acknowledge both of these truths? Or must you choose one?

    I can't think of a single mainstream team sport where the players haven't gotten significantly more athletic and skillful while rules/technology/training have changed to improve longevity. You see it in baseball, hockey, and soccer as well.

  11. #11
    The Renaissance man bladefd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Galaxy Far Far Away
    Posts
    13,588

    Default Re: Are you able to acknowledge both of these truths? Or must you choose one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kblaze8855 View Post
    Well that may be to some degree. And Steph, Dame, and Trae literally cannot be defended the way Kobe, AI, Tmac and before them Jordan, Reggie, and Tim Hardaway were. The freedom of movement rules were enforced to prevent it.

    That doesn’t mean those players could just flip a switch and play like Steph and company given the rules in place.

    There are many other factors the greatest of which is a very different skill set.

    The league caters to modern offenses in general.

    The people being catered to still evolved in such a way as to be amazingly skilled at taking advantage and those skills are not possessed by anyone before them.

    They can both be catered to….and amazing.

    Thats all I need admitted and it seems some have trouble doing it.

    At least not without adding addition context I’m not sure is needed. But after 6 million words typed on ish who am to call anyone out for not keeping it simple?
    What do you think would have happened if Jordan or Kobe or T-mac were playing in today's era? Do you think they would be the same today as they were back in their physical heyday with hand-checking?? They would have much more freedom to run havoc with lanes open and opponents spread apart.

    You don't think they would focus much more on 3pt shooting in today's nba and not bother with working on their defense? Look at the players you mentioned - Dame, Steph, Trae - none of them play much defense. They focus almost entirely on offense. Players in the past were expected to do more on both ends of the court, and so they allotted a chunk of their time on their defense, thinking more about their own defensive schemes. Coaches stressed defense, defense and more defense. Today, they begin with offense, offense, and more offense.

    I'm not trying to take away from modern players, but I'm adding a bit more respect to those past players to place them on a more even field. They simply focused on different skillsets due to the game being different, were more physical with refs allowing it, required longer timeframes to heal their bodies due to older sports medicine styles/technology/training, etc. Significantly more money is spent on sports medicine today than 20yrs ago. You could argue they had more obstacles to overcome injuries/pain and tougher time with a much more physical game.

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Posts
    1,124

    Default Re: Are you able to acknowledge both of these truths? Or must you choose one?

    I dunno why teams don't just have enforcers to send out and take out a little piece of shit like murray. snap his leg in half and take a penalty. enough of this bullshit QB/running back combo bullshit if you can't tackle them

  13. #13
    NBA All-star
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    9,954

    Default Re: Are you able to acknowledge both of these truths? Or must you choose one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kblaze8855 View Post
    Watching the nfl today has brought this to mind. I speak specifically about Kyler Murray but it applies to the nba as well for reasons that should be clear.

    First the play in question…..






    That’s called a personal foul for roughing the passer. 15 yards and a first down….for that. It is indisputably a softer game than what offensive players had to deal with in the past.


    Saying that does NOT mean I don’t think Kyler is amazing. The league making defenders take it easy on him doesn’t mean this isn’t insane:









    It just means that the insanity….is partially assisted….by being protected.

    Careers are longer, hits are softer, guys pull up on plays they often can make because they don’t want to hit guts too hard or in the wrong place. It does make a difference.

    It does NOT mean today’s players aren’t amazingly skilled. I feel like two things must be acknowledged about both the nfl and nba…..




    1. Sports have softened in modern times because offense is sexy and safety of players is more important than making it fair to the defense.


    2. The modern players are unbelievable.




    It feels like too often someone only admits one of those things and wants to downplay the other.

    Id like to know where you stand.


    On the subject of modern leagues clearly favoring offenses(both the nfl and nba admitted a more fan friendly offensive game was the goal)….and modern players also being godly combos of athleticism and skill.


    Have you any problem admitting both of those things are true? I feeeeeel like some of us have trouble admitting both can be true at the same time.


    The nba can be soft relative to the past….and full of amazing players.

    Just like the nfl.

    Right?
    Yeah but emotionally proponents of this era don't see it that way. They think when u call a spade a spade it's hating when really it just is what it is.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •