Why should i take a vaccine for something that's dangerous to someone else?

[iamgine]

Which so called 1st world country is overwhelmed with young people?

Here's the uk stats https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ghts/hospitals

Here's canada https://www.statista.com/statistics/...canada-by-age/

Here's is the cdc director https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhgI1IFPMXQ go to 1:23. She confirms that they don't know if the vaccine reduces transmission. This was right before data finally did come out showing it dosn't. That's what fauci was speaking on in the other video. Funny thing is at the time the "science" was saying they don't know while the media was saying it did. That's why no intelligent person trusts the media.

And if there is a first world country that's hospitals are mostly overwhelmed with young people they should absolutely get young people vaccinated but again that would be an oulier which dosn't correlate to most countries

And no the vaccines do not limit infection and transmission. Your going on old data from alpha. With delta this isn't the case. Here's the countries top "scince" advisors acknowledging this. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mP9iHyj1uiU

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhgI1IFPMXQ go to 1:23. The cdc director acknowledges this qnd confirms what i'm saying. She acknowledges she dosn't know if the vaccines reduce transmission. Meanwhile the meadia was saying it did. This is why people who think for themselves don't trust the media.

You don't know what your talking about man.

Even in that Canada data, people 0-49 contributes around 25% of hospitalization. That's significant.

She said she doesn't know because there's no data yet. But if a vaccine have any efficacy at all of course it's going to reduce transmission and hospitalization. This is just common sense.

[hiphopanonymous]

No that's a terrible analogy bro but If i was to use your analogy and apply it to my stance i'd basically be saying that if a vaccinated person and a non vaccinated person both shot a gun in the air both peoples bullets could randomly hit someone. The vaccinated bullet isn't gonna not kill someone because their vaccinated.

That's my point. That both vaccinated and non vaccinated can get infected and spread covid so how does it make sense to only restrict the non vaccinated when the vaccinated spread covid just as much?

And i never said i didn't care but we have to move on and live life. Plus if 5he vaccines work and protect you how am i endangering you?

Let's nuance the shit out of this to fit better since a simple analogy wasn't sufficient for you:

*Anyone who is hit with a round unless on a hard bullet proof plate involuntarily starts firing randomly into the air themselves before they recover or die.
*Put hard bullet proof plate vest is only given to the population that "chooses" to wear the vests (vaccination)*
*A bullet can in fact hit them where the vest didn't cover (the vaccine/armor isn't perfect but it's still pretty robust) and yes if hit where the plate didn't protect them they'd also shoot into the air*
*Only put soft fabric bullet proof vests on the "30 somethings" that are in the prime of their life and feel they don't need the vaccines - if they get hit anywhere (including the vest) they'll still start firing randomly into the air. In other words, they are contagious no matter what where as the ones with hard armor plate are contagious less often.

It's just a game of odds and unfortunately the vaccine isn't perfect it's like wearing a hard bullet proof vest. The round could still smack some of the armored folks in the arm or face and harm or kill them anyways sure. But it's better than being young and unvaccinated as far as spreading the disease goes and ultimately will result in far less rounds being fired into the air. If the virus doesn't multiply in your system (due to the hard plate vest not allowing it to enter) you're not as likely spread it like say, the young unvaccinated folks who still definitely get sick at high rates they just don't die as often.

I up the odds to protect myself and my circle (family, friends, etc). But some people in my circle are old or in the high risk category. I know of two fully vaccinated people who died already, one of them a doctor early 60's still very much in the prime of his career with no prior existing health issues known to him another one an individual about 51 with no prior obvious health issues that would have set off an alarm like they could die of Covid despite being vaccinated themselves. Now mind you, everyone else I've heard of that died was not vaccinated which is about 7 other folks I'm aware of. So I can cast any news crap aside and conclude on my own that the vaccinated in this small sample size seem to not die as often as those who did not get the vaccine.

Also you very much indeed "don't care." Don't pretend you do. You're more concerned about being politically right than you are about the wellbeing of anyone around you. And that's exactly what I expect out of the population which is why I don't care if you get vaccinated or not I just did what I could for myself and those I do care about.

[GimmeThat]

if people honestly and genuinely believed that the vaccine worked, they'd rush to the line and get all the vaccines for the people they cared at no cost, and they would be thrilled that others choose not to vaccinate. hell, you don't want it, better!!! my friends are saved!!!


somehow, that's not the case, because apparently, the infinite continuous bullet analogy now fits into the physics equation of matters-energy.

some real retarded shit

[Bronbron23]

Even in that Canada data, people 0-49 contributes around 25% of hospitalization. That's significant.

She said she doesn't know because there's no data yet. But if a vaccine have any efficacy at all of course it's going to reduce transmission and hospitalization. This is just common sense.

I said young people man grouping in 40-49 year olds with young adults is disingenuous. 35 and over isn't young. The small percentage of those from that group that are healthy are low risk but if your late 30's or over your definitely at higher risk.

And that's not how efficacy works man. Efficacy has degrees. Some vaccines stop and reduce transmission and some not so much. The flu vaccine like covid vaccine is great for reducing death and severe sickness but it does very little in reducing infection and transmission. With that said Common sense actually leads more to vaccines not significantly reducing transmission.

[tpols]

People in this thread talking about not getting a vaccine with no long term human clinical trials that doesn't prevent transmission and whose side effects are not fully understood yet is like shooting guns in the air at people.

Cant make this shit up. Straight up retarded.

[Bronbron23]

Let's nuance the shit out of this to fit better since a simple analogy wasn't sufficient for you:

*Anyone who is hit with a round unless on a hard bullet proof plate involuntarily starts firing randomly into the air themselves before they recover or die.
*Put hard bullet proof plate vest is only given to the population that "chooses" to wear the vests (vaccination)*
*A bullet can in fact hit them where the vest didn't cover (the vaccine/armor isn't perfect but it's still pretty robust) and yes if hit where the plate didn't protect them they'd also shoot into the air*
*Only put soft fabric bullet proof vests on the "30 somethings" that are in the prime of their life and feel they don't need the vaccines - if they get hit anywhere (including the vest) they'll still start firing randomly into the air. In other words, they are contagious no matter what where as the ones with hard armor plate are contagious less often.

It's just a game of odds and unfortunately the vaccine isn't perfect it's like wearing a hard bullet proof vest. The round could still smack some of the armored folks in the arm or face and harm or kill them anyways sure. But it's better than being young and unvaccinated as far as spreading the disease goes and ultimately will result in far less rounds being fired into the air. If the virus doesn't multiply in your system (due to the hard plate vest not allowing it to enter) you're not as likely spread it like say, the young unvaccinated folks who still definitely get sick at high rates they just don't die as often.

I up the odds to protect myself and my circle (family, friends, etc). But some people in my circle are old or in the high risk category. I know of two fully vaccinated people who died already, one of them a doctor early 60's still very much in the prime of his career with no prior existing health issues known to him another one an individual about 51 with no prior obvious health issues that would have set off an alarm like they could die of Covid despite being vaccinated themselves. Now mind you, everyone else I've heard of that died was not vaccinated which is about 7 other folks I'm aware of. So I can cast any news crap aside and conclude on my own that the vaccinated in this small sample size seem to not die as often as those who did not get the vaccine.

Also you very much indeed "don't care." Don't pretend you do. You're more concerned about being politically right than you are about the wellbeing of anyone around you. And that's exactly what I expect out of the population which is why I don't care if you get vaccinated or not I just did what I could for myself and those I do care about.

I got the analogy but neither really apply to what i said. I know the vaccine works and protects people. Your analogy works in that sense but i never said the vaccine dosn't work. Your analogy falls short in its relation to the spread because both the vaccinated and unvaccinated can spread covid pretty much equally. You aren't significantly reducing the risk of infecting the people around you by getting the vaccine because they're just as much at risk from you as they are me. So it's not that i don't care. It's just that it dosn't make sense. It has nothing to do with politics man. It has everything to do with common sense.

[Bronbron23]

if people honestly and genuinely believed that the vaccine worked, they'd rush to the line and get all the vaccines for the people they cared at no cost, and they would be thrilled that others choose not to vaccinate. hell, you don't want it, better!!! my friends are saved!!!


somehow, that's not the case, because apparently, the infinite continuous bullet analogy now fits into the physics equation of matters-energy.

some real retarded shit

Yeah it was a bad one. I have a young son and a wife. I visit my older parents all the time. If the vaccine significantly reduced transmission i'd get it fast. That's not the case though. The vaccines protects me but I'm 35 and healthy and extremely low risk. I'm also pretty care free so i don't worry about small risks anyway so based on this why would i get it? I get old people and unhealthy people getting it. I get people with anxiety who are nervous about everything getting it. I'm not them though.

[iamgine]

I said young people man grouping in 40-49 year olds with young adults is disingenuous. 35 and over isn't young. The small percentage of those from that group that are healthy are low risk but if your late 30's or over your definitely at higher risk.

And that's not how efficacy works man. Efficacy has degrees. Some vaccines stop and reduce transmission and some not so much. The flu vaccine like covid vaccine is great for reducing death and severe sickness but it does very little in reducing infection and transmission. With that said Common sense actually leads more to vaccines not significantly reducing transmission.

Even the lower age group still contributes tens of thousands of patients.

The vaccine reduces infection and also accelerates viral clearance. Which means you are less likely to contract the virus and even if you do, you'll recover faster. Which means less chance of transmitting it to others and less/faster hospitalization. This is just common sense.

[Bronbron23]

Even the lower age group still contributes tens of thousands of patients.

The vaccine reduces infection and also accelerates viral clearance. Which means you are less likely to contract the virus and even if you do, you'll recover faster. Which means less chance of transmitting it to others and less/faster hospitalization. This is just common sense.

The lower age group are contributing to less than 10% that's not significant enough to mandate it for that age group. Your basically running your argument on the one life saved argument which isn't a good one. We except minimal risks all the time. This is no different.

And again with reducing infection and transmission point it's very minimal. It dosn't significantly reduce it. We don't apply this to the flu which kills just as many kids and kills tens of thousands and infects tens of millions.

I don't see this same concern for minimal risk for the flu or heart disease or type 2 diabetes. Combined these thinga are way more likely to kill or hospitalize people. What's next are we gonna force people on what and how to eat? Why no outrage for all these unhealthy fat f*cks that overwhelme the hospitals every year. Why no outrage for people spreading the flu which kills just as many kids as covid?

What's common sense is that the world is full of things that pose an extremely low risk to our safety and survival. We except and live with these risks every day because living in fear of things that's minimal risk is no way to live your life. Alot of people have let the media and government scare them into being scared of something that they otherwise wouldn't have been if not for all the fear mongering and now people like you are acting irrational.

[hiphopanonymous]

I got the analogy but neither really apply to what i said. I know the vaccine works and protects people. Your analogy works in that sense but i never said the vaccine dosn't work. Your analogy falls short in its relation to the spread because both the vaccinated and unvaccinated can spread covid pretty much equally. You aren't significantly reducing the risk of infecting the people around you by getting the vaccine because they're just as much at risk from you as they are me. So it's not that i don't care. It's just that it dosn't make sense. It has nothing to do with politics man. It has everything to do with common sense.

My understanding could be mistaken but my understanding was the vaccinated do not catch and play host - therefore do not spread - Covid as profusely or as easily as those who do not get vaccinated. Some with the vaccine certainly can and do catch it to infectious and even lethal levels yes these are those break through cases that the news loves to talk about - but the numbers are far far reduced by comparison to the unvaccinated. Therefore, in a perfect world, if everyone truly cared about dropping numbers with simple measures things like a (totally free) vaccine would be a no brainer. But my other point is - people don't care to do the right thing. So they don't.

[warriorfan]

My understanding could be mistaken but my understanding was the vaccinated do not catch and play host - therefore do not spread - Covid as profusely or as easily as those who do not get vaccinated. Some with the vaccine certainly can and do catch it to infectious and even lethal levels yes these are those break through cases that the news loves to talk about - but the numbers are far far reduced by comparison to the unvaccinated. Therefore, in a perfect world, if everyone truly cared about dropping numbers with simple measures things like a (totally free) vaccine would be a no brainer. But my other point is - people don't care to do the right thing. So they don't.

I wouldn’t call it your understanding. More like your wishful thinking.

When they analyzed the data, the researchers found wide variations in viral load within both vaccinated and unvaccinated groups, but not between them. There was no significant difference in viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated, or between asymptomatic and symptomatic groups.

“Vaccines have been shown to be highly effective in preventing severe disease, hospitalization and death from COVID-19. For example, as of mid-September, 41 out of 49 patients hospitalized with COVID-19 at UC Davis Medical Center in Sacramento were unvaccinated.

Breakthrough infections where vaccinated people do become sick can occur, especially in areas where virus prevalence is high.

Although vaccinated people with a breakthrough infection are much less likely to become severely ill than unvaccinated, the new study shows that they(vaccinated) can be carrying similar amounts of virus and could potentially spread the virus to other people. This study did not directly address how easily vaccinated people can get infected with SARS-CoV-2, or how readily someone with a breakthrough infection can transmit the virus.”

..

[n00bie]

This has turned into the pandemic for the unvaccinated. Life is pretty much back to normal here except for the annoying masks indoors.

I gotta say shit sucks for the unvaccinated tho. Can't work, can't go to restaurants, can't travel etc.

I'm all for vaccines, but separating the population is stupid. I feel for you guys.

[Bronbron23]

My understanding could be mistaken but my understanding was the vaccinated do not catch and play host - therefore do not spread - Covid as profusely or as easily as those who do not get vaccinated. Some with the vaccine certainly can and do catch it to infectious and even lethal levels yes these are those break through cases that the news loves to talk about - but the numbers are far far reduced by comparison to the unvaccinated. Therefore, in a perfect world, if everyone truly cared about dropping numbers with simple measures things like a (totally free) vaccine would be a no brainer. But my other point is - people don't care to do the right thing. So they don't.

This may have been true with alpha but it's not the case with delta. I mean there are places with very high vaccination rates that are having their highest cases to date.

I think there are people who are certainly selfish when it comes to there health but this is true for lots of things including the flu. And again i don't think most people go about it with the mind set they don't care. They go about it with the mindset that it's a risk that we as a society chose to take. Up until covid most of us have done it with the flu. The flu infects millions and kills tens of thousands of people a year. It kills just as many kids as covid but in general only 1/3 of the population gets vaccinated for it. Nobody wears masks. Nobody stays 6 feet apart even though they could be asymptomatic have it and spread it. I'm sure your guilty of this i know i was. How is that any different?

[Rooster]

This may have been true with alpha but it's not the case with delta. I mean there are places with very high vaccination rates that are having their highest cases to date.

I think there are people who are certainly selfish when it comes to there health but this is true for lots of things including the flu. And again i don't think most people go about it with the mind set they don't care. They go about it with the mindset that it's a risk that we as a society chose to take. Up until covid most of us have done it with the flu. The flu infects millions and kills tens of thousands of people a year. It kills just as many kids as covid but in general only 1/3 of the population gets vaccinated for it. Nobody wears masks. Nobody stays 6 feet apart even though they could be asymptomatic have it and spread it. I'm sure your guilty of this i know i was. How is that any different?

You have an antiviral drugs that can kill the flu inside the human body with trillion cells. Nothing so far with Covid though Pfizer drug is promising.

[Rooster]

People in this thread talking about not getting a vaccine with no long term human clinical trials that doesn't prevent transmission and whose side effects are not fully understood yet is like shooting guns in the air at people.

Cant make this shit up. Straight up retarded.

Vaccines approval process is at least 5 years. Considering the circumstances, there’s no way the world will wait for at least 5 years to unleash the vaccine.