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  1. #46
    I rule the local playground expansionera's Avatar
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    Default Re: “Scottie’s the Best Player in the League. You Could Play in the League Right Now”

    "If you notice about Scottie Pippen, when Michael Jordan left in '93, '94, '95 -- Scottie Pippen was the best player in the world. If people didn't know that, he led the team in every category. Every category. Scottie got his wings in 1991 when [the Bulls] beat the Detroit Pistons. When Michael left, Scottie took over and next thing you know he was the best player in the world. People don't know that."

    -Dennis Rodman

  2. #47
    NBA Legend 97 bulls's Avatar
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    Default Re: “Scottie’s the Best Player in the League. You Could Play in the League Right Now”

    Quote Originally Posted by bizil View Post
    LMAO!!! U DON'T KNOW THE GAME if you think Magic and Pip were the same level of scorer. Magic was OBVIOUSLY a better scorer than Pippen. A more SKILLED scorer than Pippen. MORE CLUTCH than Pippen.

    U get caught up into the PPG with Magic. THING IS Magic was also getting 11-12 APG as THE POINT GUARD!!! Pip was a great passer for a SF or point forward. BUT Pip WASN'T a natural PG in the old school sense! Magic was!! He was the ULTIMATE pass first point guard!!! On those Lakers teams, Magic DIDN'T need to average 25 PPG! Even though Magic did average 23.9 PPG and 12.2 dimes in a season.

    If Magic had enough scoring help (which he did often) he was TOTALLY CONTENT being a pass first, pass second player. If he DIDN'T have as much scoring help, he could amp up his scoring to alpha dog levels. MEANING he could dominate games at the DROP OF A HAT scoring if he wanted or needed to. STUDENTS of the game KNOW Magic was ABSOLUTELY alpha dog level quality scorer. JUST SO HAPPENED he was the greatest floor general who has ever lived. SO HE PLAYED TO THAT STRENGTH FIRST!!! When u play with Kareem,Nixon, McAdoo, Worthy, B Scott, Wilkes, etc., it was a PERFECT FIT for Magic's mindset.

    BUT IN REALITY, prime Kareem was the ONLY ONE who was a better actual scorer than Magic on those Lakers teams! When it comes to passing,Magic is top of the heap. Pip is WAY FURTHER DOWN THE CHARTS has a passer. Great for a SF, very good when compared to a PG. And for the cherry on top, MJ was HANDS DOWN a better passer than Pippen! Just so happened MJ was a score first player. Who was the ULTIMATE alpha dog scorer.
    When I say offense I meant their ability to score. Magic is a much better offensive player overall when compared to Pippen. I was responding to your assessment on their ability to score the basketball themselves. They're even in that regard.

  3. #48
    NBA lottery pick bizil's Avatar
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    Default Re: “Scottie’s the Best Player in the League. You Could Play in the League Right Now”

    Quote Originally Posted by 97 bulls View Post
    When I say offense I meant their ability to score. Magic is a much better offensive player overall when compared to Pippen. I was responding to your assessment on their ability to score the basketball themselves. They're even in that regard.
    Once again Magic has the CLEAR EDGE on Pippen scoring the rock. Teams FEARED Magic more scoring the rock than they EVER DID Pip!! Magic was the ultimate pass first PG. Getting 11-13 APG! YET he still managed to average over 20 PPG four times in his career. Maxing out at 23.9 PPG. Magic and Isiah were the rare pass first PG's who could ALSO morph into dominant scorers. With those two their 19-22 PPG DOESN'T tell the true story.

    They are two of the top five floor generals of all time. So their MAIN PRIORITY was to drop the dimes and run the team. So Magic PROVED he could average just as many points as Pip or more. AND he's the greatest passer of all time! That means Magic SCORING the points he did is MORE REMARKABLE that what Pip did scoring wise! No basketball historian WILL SAY Pip was just as good a scorer as Magic. U GOTTA LOOK DEEPER than the PPG!

    Once again Magic was CLEARLY the more feared scorer between himself and Pippen. IF Pip was AS GOOD as Magic scoring the rock, THAT MEANS Pip was an alpha dog level scorer. And from there, IF Pip had that in his arsenal, he would have been the GOAT SF AT ONE POINT! Hell he has six rings! Yet NOBODY put him on that level. WHY?? Because his overall PEAK/PRIME value AMONG other great SF's hurt him. It's why guys with less rings such as Bird, Bron, KD, Doc, and Baylor, RANK HIGHER on the GOAT SF charts. Those guys were/are great scorers ON TOP of very good to great all around ability. That trumps a player like Pip ALL THE TIME!!
    Last edited by bizil; 12-02-2021 at 08:10 PM.

  4. #49
    NBA sixth man of the year SATAN's Avatar
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    Default Re: “Scottie’s the Best Player in the League. You Could Play in the League Right Now”

    Quote Originally Posted by expansionera View Post
    "If you notice about Scottie Pippen, when Michael Jordan left in '93, '94, '95 -- Scottie Pippen was the best player in the world. If people didn't know that, he led the team in every category. Every category. Scottie got his wings in 1991 when [the Bulls] beat the Detroit Pistons. When Michael left, Scottie took over and next thing you know he was the best player in the world. People don't know that."

    -Dennis Rodman
    Wait, so you're telling me Michael Jordan's sidekick was the second best player in the NBA?

    How much help did this guy have?

  5. #50
    NBA Legend 97 bulls's Avatar
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    Default Re: “Scottie’s the Best Player in the League. You Could Play in the League Right Now”

    Quote Originally Posted by bizil View Post
    Once again Magic has the CLEAR EDGE on Pippen scoring the rock. Teams FEARED Magic more scoring the rock than they EVER DID Pip!! Magic was the ultimate pass first PG. Getting 11-13 APG! YET he still managed to average over 20 PPG four times in his career. Maxing out at 23.9 PPG. Magic and Isiah were the rare pass first PG's who could ALSO morph into dominant scorers. With those two their 19-22 PPG DOESN'T tell the true story.

    They are two of the top five floor generals of all time. So their MAIN PRIORITY was to drop the dimes and run the team. So Magic PROVED he could average just as many points as Pip or more. AND he's the greatest passer of all time! That means Magic SCORING the points he did is MORE REMARKABLE that what Pip did scoring wise! No basketball historian WILL SAY Pip was just as good a scorer as Magic. U GOTTA LOOK DEEPER than the PPG!

    Once again Magic was CLEARLY the more feared scorer between himself and Pippen. IF Pip was AS GOOD as Magic scoring the rock, THAT MEANS Pip was an alpha dog level scorer. And from there, IF Pip had that in his arsenal, he would have been the GOAT SF AT ONE POINT! Hell he has six rings! Yet NOBODY put him on that level. WHY?? Because his overall PEAK/PRIME value AMONG other great SF's hurt him. It's why guys with less rings such as Bird, Bron, KD, Doc, and Baylor, RANK HIGHER on the GOAT SF charts. Those guys were/are great scorers ON TOP of very good to great all around ability. That trumps a player like Pip ALL THE TIME!!
    Magic scored most of his points in transition. And played in an uptempo offense. Yes Magic sacrificed points for passing. Pippen played alongside a player that took almost 25 shots a night in am era that wasn't conducive to scoring. And he had to sacrifice energy to score and play a high level of defense. There is no difference.

    I even did the math. Pippens scoring circa 94 in today's league would put him at 25-26 ppg (I believe it compared it to 2019). That's Kevin Durant level. And Durant also was 8th in scoring like Pippen was.

    Lastly, think about what you're saying here. If Pippen were that good a scorer, he would've been considered the beat player in the league. Well, Bird, Rodman, Thomas, Salley, Daly, Malone, and many more felt he was the best player in the league at one point. Maybe you need to reassess how you see Pippen. What do players like Bird see in Pippen that you don't?

  6. #51
    NBA lottery pick bizil's Avatar
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    Default Re: “Scottie’s the Best Player in the League. You Could Play in the League Right Now”

    Quote Originally Posted by 97 bulls View Post
    Magic scored most of his points in transition. And played in an uptempo offense. Yes Magic sacrificed points for passing. Pippen played alongside a player that took almost 25 shots a night in am era that wasn't conducive to scoring. And he had to sacrifice energy to score and play a high level of defense. There is no difference.

    I even did the math. Pippens scoring circa 94 in today's league would put him at 25-26 ppg (I believe it compared it to 2019). That's Kevin Durant level. And Durant also was 8th in scoring like Pippen was.

    Lastly, think about what you're saying here. If Pippen were that good a scorer, he would've been considered the beat player in the league. Well, Bird, Rodman, Thomas, Salley, Daly, Malone, and many more felt he was the best player in the league at one point. Maybe you need to reassess how you see Pippen. What do players like Bird see in Pippen that you don't?
    Pip was the best ALL AROUND player in the league once MJ went to baseball. I've admitted that before. But he was NEVER the best player in the league at that time. Best player and best all around are two different things. Better than Dream, Barkley, Mailman, Shaq, or Drexler? LMAO!!!

    And bottom line is Magic plain and simple was a more feared scorer than Pip. If the PPG are similar, shit like clutch factor and fear factor come into play! Magic has WAY MORE memorable moments scoring wise that Pip EVER DID! Starting his rookie year in The Finals!!
    Last edited by bizil; 12-02-2021 at 08:38 PM.

  7. #52
    NBA lottery pick bizil's Avatar
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    Default Re: “Scottie’s the Best Player in the League. You Could Play in the League Right Now”

    Quote Originally Posted by 97 bulls View Post
    Magic scored most of his points in transition. And played in an uptempo offense. Yes Magic sacrificed points for passing. Pippen played alongside a player that took almost 25 shots a night in am era that wasn't conducive to scoring. And he had to sacrifice energy to score and play a high level of defense. There is no difference.

    I even did the math. Pippens scoring circa 94 in today's league would put him at 25-26 ppg (I believe it compared it to 2019). That's Kevin Durant level. And Durant also was 8th in scoring like Pippen was.

    Lastly, think about what you're saying here. If Pippen were that good a scorer, he would've been considered the beat player in the league. Well, Bird, Rodman, Thomas, Salley, Daly, Malone, and many more felt he was the best player in the league at one point. Maybe you need to reassess how you see Pippen. What do players like Bird see in Pippen that you don't?
    So why did Pip's scoring average HARDLY CHANGE when MJ went to baseball????? Before Pip came of age, MJ was winning scoring titles, MVPs, and DPOY!!! So STOP MAKING EXCUSES for Pippen! He was a great player no doubt. But this myth about his scoring ability OR him being the best player in the league at one point needs TO STOP!! Being the best all around player in the league AND the best SF in the world are levels Pip reached!

    Trust me... Those guys DIDN'T think Pip was a better player than the Dream or Barkley at that point in time. Drexler was every bit the passer and rebounder Pip was. AND had the edge scoring wise. And Shaq EVEN THEN was the most physically dominant player in the league. They were lookin at Pip through the prism of the Bulls dynasty. And being the best ALL AROUND PLAYER!!

  8. #53
    NBA Legend 97 bulls's Avatar
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    Default Re: “Scottie’s the Best Player in the League. You Could Play in the League Right Now”

    Quote Originally Posted by bizil View Post
    So why did Pip's scoring average HARDLY CHANGE when MJ went to baseball????? Before Pip came of age, MJ was winning scoring titles, MVPs, and DPOY!!! So STOP MAKING EXCUSES for Pippen!
    Because he had to fill so many roles. And the game had began to change to a more defense focused mindset. Like I said in the previous post. It's taxing to have to be the best defender, scorer, rebounder, passes, run the offense, and anchor the defense and drop 26-27ppg. Nobody has done that. And Pippen even said in his book that he was more focused on running the offense more efficiently than scoring a bunch of points because he felt that was the best way to win. And low and behold, the coaches came out and said the triangle was never ran better than it was in 94 and 95.

    He was a great player no doubt. But this myth about his scoring ability OR him being the best player in the league at one point needs TO STOP!! Being the best all around player in the league AND the best SF in the world are levels Pip reached!

    Trust me... Those guys DIDN'T think Pip was a better player than the Dream or Barkley at that point in time. Drexler was every bit the passer and rebounder Pip was. AND had the edge scoring wise. And Shaq EVEN THEN was the most physically dominant player in the league. They were lookin at Pip through the prism of the Bulls dynasty. And being the best ALL AROUND PLAYER!!
    Bro, what are those players getting out of saying they felt he was one of the best players in the league at one time? Or even the best player? It's their opinion. I don't agree that Pippen was ever the best player in the league. But he was definitely top 3-5 from 94 to 96. But again, why say it if they don't believe it?

  9. #54
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    Default Re: “Scottie’s the Best Player in the League. You Could Play in the League Right Now”

    Hakeem Olujawan was the best player in the league during that time frame

    Pippen was never close to being the best player in any league he was in

    He was an always will be Jordans butthurt, jealous second fiddle ... If it wasn't for MJ he would just be known for being bitch slapped by Charles Oakley in the locker room
    Last edited by HighFlyer23; 12-02-2021 at 09:48 PM.

  10. #55
    NBA lottery pick bizil's Avatar
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    Default Re: “Scottie’s the Best Player in the League. You Could Play in the League Right Now”

    Here's how you get delusional Pip fans... He was a great player FOR SURE! BUT WHY was he NEVER regarded the GOAT SF with six rings???? When it comes to his floor game (passing, defense, rebounding as a package), a top 2-3 SF of all time. With a Bron and Hondo in that mix. He has many All Star, All NBA, and All D teams to his credit. He REDEFINED the SF position FLAT OUT on top of it.

    He was never the GOAT SF BECAUSE his scoring ability was the ***** in his armor. Sure he was a very good scorer. BUT never a great one. Peak-prime status IS A PART of GOAT criteria. It's why Dr. J with one ring has ALWAYS trumped Pip on a GOAT SF list. Doc was easily the better player peak-prime wise. Was the face of the league. And redefined his position. It takes a KD, Bron, or Bird to trump a Dr. J on a GOAT SF list. If Bird, KD, or Doc had six rings, they would be right there with MJ , Kareem, and Bron in the GOAT debate.

    BECAUSE they were that dominant as players. Pip with AS MANY RINGS as MJ is top 30 GOAT AT BEST??? Why???? Peak-prime value among the SF's WASN'T GREAT ENOUGH for him to be a top 10 GOAT legend. And I AINT TRYING TO HEAR he played with MJ! Magic and Kareem played together. BOTH are in the top 10 GOAT. Kobe and Shaq played together. BOTH are in the top 10 GOAT! Jus saying six rings is a MASSIVE AMOUNT OF RINGS! Top 30 GOAT, best all around player in the league once MJ went to baseball, and best SF in the league at one point are MAJOR ACCOLADES on top of six rings and two gold medals. WHY AREN'T some Pip fans happy with that???
    Last edited by bizil; 12-02-2021 at 10:03 PM.

  11. #56
    NBA Legend 97 bulls's Avatar
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    Default Re: “Scottie’s the Best Player in the League. You Could Play in the League Right Now”

    Quote Originally Posted by bizil View Post
    Here's how you get delusional Pip fans... He was a great player FOR SURE! BUT WHY was he NEVER regarded the GOAT SF with six rings???? When it comes to his floor game (passing, defense, rebounding as a package), a top 2-3 SF of all time. With a Bron and Hondo in that mix. He has many All Star, All NBA, and All D teams to his credit. He REDEFINED the SF position FLAT OUT on top of it.

    He was never the GOAT SF BECAUSE his scoring ability was the ***** in his armor. Sure he was a very good scorer. BUT never a great one. Peak-prime status IS A PART of GOAT criteria. It's why Dr. J with one ring has ALWAYS trumped Pip on a GOAT SF list. Doc was easily the better player peak-prime wise. Was the face of the league. And redefined his position. It takes a KD, Bron, or Bird to trump a Dr. J on a GOAT SF list. If Bird, KD, or Doc had six rings, they would be right there with MJ , Kareem, and Bron in the GOAT debate.

    BECAUSE they were that dominant as players. Pip with AS MANY RINGS as MJ is top 30 GOAT AT BEST??? Why???? Peak-prime value among the SF's WASN'T GREAT ENOUGH for him to be a top 10 GOAT legend. And I AINT TRYING TO HEAR he played with MJ! Magic and Kareem played together. BOTH are in the top 10 GOAT. Kobe and Shaq played together. BOTH are in the top 10 GOAT! Jus saying six rings is a MASSIVE AMOUNT OF RINGS! Top 30 GOAT, best all around player in the league once MJ went to baseball, and best SF in the league at one point are MAJOR ACCOLADES on top of six rings and two gold medals. WHY AREN'T some Pip fans happy with that???
    Bro, that's honestly not your question. What your question really is is if all these players and coaches say Pippen is that good, why doesn't Bizil feel that way? The answer is maybe you're wrong bro. You follow dumasses like Steven A Smith and Skip Bayless. Again Pippens peers, the best players and coaches to ever play hold him in high regard. He's constantly top 20-25. And thats fair. How many players in NBA history can say they finished top 5 in MVP and DPOY voting in the same year? Pip did it twice.

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    Default Re: “Scottie’s the Best Player in the League. You Could Play in the League Right Now”

    Quote Originally Posted by 97 bulls View Post
    Bro, that's honestly not your question. What your question really is is if all these players and coaches say Pippen is that good, why doesn't Bizil feel that way? The answer is maybe you're wrong bro. You follow dumasses like Steven A Smith and Skip Bayless. Again Pippens peers, the best players and coaches to ever play hold him in high regard. He's constantly top 20-25. And thats fair. How many players in NBA history can say they finished top 5 in MVP and DPOY voting in the same year? Pip did it twice.
    your problem is accepting those player's & coaches opinions as facts. Zeke's comments on the topic has flip flopped many times depending on his mood.

  13. #58
    I rule the local playground expansionera's Avatar
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    Default Re: “Scottie’s the Best Player in the League. You Could Play in the League Right Now”

    Quote Originally Posted by Bawkish View Post
    your problem is accepting those player's & coaches opinions as facts. Zeke's comments on the topic has flip flopped many times depending on his mood.
    What about Rodman? He is Hall of Fame with four titles, played with and against Scottie. Knows his game inside and out enough to know the level he was producing at when Jordan was out.

    Thomas may put on a tough face and criticize in public, but Pippen also regards Thomas as a verbatim “nobody” in the land of basketball. What he told KG in confidence at Pippen’s absolute peak is more demonstrative of his opinion than his cruel trolling of the perennially underrated forward.

    Furthermore Pippen regards himself as superior to MJ, there’s certainly an argument for it when it comes to how he was viewed by his most critical and intense peers and competitors of the era.

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    Default Re: “Scottie’s the Best Player in the League. You Could Play in the League Right Now”

    Quote Originally Posted by expansionera View Post
    What about Rodman? He is Hall of Fame with four titles, played with and against Scottie. Knows his game inside and out enough to know the level he was producing at when Jordan was out.

    Thomas may put on a tough face and criticize in public, but Pippen also regards Thomas as a verbatim “nobody” in the land of basketball. What he told KG in confidence at Pippen’s absolute peak is more demonstrative of his opinion than his cruel trolling of the perennially underrated forward.

    Furthermore Pippen regards himself as superior to MJ, there’s certainly an argument for it when it comes to how he was viewed by his most critical and intense peers and competitors of the era.
    is this some type of meme?

  15. #60
    NBA lottery pick bizil's Avatar
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    Default Re: “Scottie’s the Best Player in the League. You Could Play in the League Right Now”

    Quote Originally Posted by Bawkish View Post
    your problem is accepting those player's & coaches opinions as facts. Zeke's comments on the topic has flip flopped many times depending on his mood.
    BINGO!! A lot of DELUSIONAL Pip fans fall into that. My opinions of Pip ARE BASED on a number of factors. The ULTIMATE player is the guy who has great scoring ability AND very good to great all around ability in one package. Pip was NEVER that type of player. Not a diss JUST FACTS! On Open Court, I heard Zeke and Webber BOTH say they preferred Nique as a player over Pippen. On a peak-prime level, I agree with that. On a GOAT level, I give Pip the edge due to his overall resume. And FOR THE RECORD, Nique is my favorite player of all time. Yet I'm willing to admit GOAT wise Pip has the edge. Peak-prime wise, give me Nique!

    Yet with six rings Pip NEVER CAME CLOSE to top 10-15 GOAT level status. Hell was never argued by ANY TV analyst, sports writer, former player, current player on television on that level. This is with six rings!!! Why is that for somebody with a resume as decorated as Pippen's. It's BECAUSE of his peak-prime value. It's the ONLY LOGICAL REASON!

    Pip's one of the VERY SMALL AMOUNT of players that can say he revolutionized his position FLAT OUT! His 6'8 freak athletic point forward shit was the BLUEPRINT for G Hill and Bron down the road. So his solo accolades, team accolades, longevity being great and redefining a position WEREN'T the problem. He DIDN'T have the blend of great scoring ability AND very good to great all around ability that the MJs, Brons, Kobes, Magics, Birds, KDs, Wades, Oscars, Wests, Baylors, Barrys, Hondos, etc. on the perimeter. So peak-prime wise, he HAS to fall behind those guys.

    So instead of being a top 10-15 GOAT legend with 6 rings, he's a top 30 legend type legend with six rings. Bill Russell in the top 5-6 GOAT is the EXCEPTION for a non-alpha dog scorer to be on the level. Because he had 11 rings and 5 MVPS. Pip accolades WHILE IMPRESSIVE weren't on that level to put him in that area.
    Last edited by bizil; 12-03-2021 at 01:00 AM.

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