The truths and myths to Scottie Pippen

[3ba11]

Pippen did better than Jordan on both of the two occasions he played without him

Pippen wasn't even a 2nd option without Jordan - he was 3rd thru 7th option on Houston and Portland

And he couldn't grow a team each year like 1st options are supposed to do - he was borderline lottery in 95', so he had destroyed a 3-peat dynasty in less than 2 years

[3ba11]

* Pippen was a low-producer that never achieved elite production

* Never dominated any series

* Never hit a big shot

* Less DPOY votes than MJ every year

* Less assists than MJ for Finals career, playoff career and regular season career

* Half the playoff PPG as MJ and carried in every series (never got within 10 ppg of Jordan in any series)

[97 bulls]

Pippen wasn't even a 2nd option without Jordan - he was 3rd thru 7th option on Houston and Portland

And he couldn't grow a team each year like 1st options are supposed to do - he was borderline lottery in 95', so he had destroyed a 3-peat dynasty in less than 2 years

Pippen was 33, 34, and 35 years old in Houston and Portalnd. Stop trolling. Thus is why we get the constant 1-9 arguments against Jordan.

Question. Since age and injury be dated, why didn't Michael Jordan win a championship with a hall of famer in Iceman George Gervin (he was 33) Charles Oakley, and Orlando Woolridge? Woolridge was a great scorer as well. Why didn't Jordan win?

[Airupthere]

Pippen was 33, 34, and 35 years old in Houston and Portalnd. Stop trolling. Thus is why we get the constant 1-9 arguments against Jordan.

Question. Since age and injury be dated, why didn't Michael Jordan win a championship with a hall of famer in Iceman George Gervin (he was 33) Charles Oakley, and Orlando Woolridge? Woolridge was a great scorer as well. Why didn't Jordan win?

Hard to win with gervin when jordan was mostly sidelined from injury in the only season they would have played together.

[97 bulls]

Hard to win with gervin when jordan was mostly sidelined from injury in the only season they would have played together.

Gervin was past his prime. No reasonable person expected that Bulls team to win a championship in 86. But 3ball throws context out the window with regards to Pippen. So I want to see some consistency. If he expected 33, 34, and 35 year old Pippen to win a championship, age, injuries, context be dated, surely he should've expected Jordan to do the same.

Now, why don't you check 3ball on his nonsensical arguments? Probably because you're a Jordanite as well.

[3ba11]

Gervin was past his prime. No reasonable person expected that Bulls team to win a championship in 86. But 3ball throws context out the window with regards to Pippen. So I want to see some consistency. If he expected 33, 34, and 35 year old Pippen to win a championship, age, injuries, context be dated, surely he should've expected Jordan to do the same.

Now, why don't you check 3ball on his nonsensical arguments? Probably because you're a Jordanite as well.

Gervin didn't play in those playoffs

And MJ was MVP at 35, so 33 years old is young.. Pippen was younger than fossils Hakeem and Barkley but was still instantly demoted to 3rd option... 14 ppg and complete trash at 33 years old

[TheGoatest]

Pippen wasn't even a 2nd option without Jordan - he was 3rd thru 7th option on Houston and Portland

And he couldn't grow a team each year like 1st options are supposed to do - he was borderline lottery in 95', so he had destroyed a 3-peat dynasty in less than 2 years

Had the best statline on that Blazers team while being the only Blazers player to be named to an all-NBA/all-defensive team.

1999-00 Pippen was the anti-1986-87 sub-Chuck Person record Michael Jordan.

[3ba11]

Had the best statline on that Blazers team while being the only Blazers player to be named to an all-NBA/all-defensive team.

1999-00 Pippen was the anti-1986-87 sub-Chuck Person record Michael Jordan.

Let's work backwards:

* 11 ppg in the 99-03' Playoffs

* 17 on 41% in the 96-98' Playoffs

* outplayed by Larry Johnson in the 1995' 1st Round, and then 19 on 40% in 2nd Round to cause loss

* Destroyed by Ewing in 2nd Round with numerous historic chokes

* Worst impact stats ever for winning sidekick in 93' Playoffs (PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP), including 45% true shooting in Finals and letting rookie Dumas go off

* Nearly derailed the 92' title by getting destroyed by X-man in the 2nd Round and causing a 7 game series (16 on 40%)

* Horrible in 88-90' Playoffs (12 on 42% vs Bad Boys)

So Pippen was literally horrible for 95% of his playoff career

[TheGoatest]

Let's work backwards:

* 11 ppg in the 99-03' Playoffs

* 17 on 41% in the 96-98' Playoffs

* outplayed by Larry Johnson in the 1995' 1st Round, and then 19 on 40% in 2nd Round to cause loss

* Destroyed by Ewing in 2nd Round with numerous historic chokes

* Worst impact stats ever for winning sidekick in 93' Playoffs (PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP), including 45% true shooting in Finals and letting rookie Dumas go off

* Nearly derailed title by getting destroyed by X-man in the 2nd Round and causing a 7 game series (16 on 40%)

* Horrible in 88-90' Playoffs (12 on 42% vs Bad Boys)

So Pippen was literally horrible for 95% of his playoff career

* Had a 23 ppg on 55% shooting teammate yet lost to a team who went on to get swept in the 2nd round by a team that lost in the conference finals to a team that lost in the finals

* Outscored by Terry Cummings despite having his whole game based on scoring

* Had a 15 ppg, 13 rpg and 4 apg teammate yet finished lower in the seedings than an all-star-less team whose best player by far and leading scorer was a significant margin was a rookie Chuck Person

* 1-9 record in the playoffs

* Probably the emptiest stat season of all time

* Never cracked .500

Then this happened:

[3ba11]

* Had a 23 ppg on 55% shooting teammate yet lost to a team who went on to get swept in the 2nd round by a team that lost in the conference finals to a team that lost in the finals

* Outscored by Terry Cummings despite having his whole game based on scoring

* Had a 15 ppg, 13 rpg and 4 apg teammate yet finished lower in the seedings than an all-star-less team whose best player by far and leading scorer was a significant margin was a rookie Chuck Person

* 1-9 record in the playoffs

* Probably the emptiest stat season of all time

* Never cracked .500

Then this happened:

Help needed to make Playoffs:

Lebron

* several lottery years to develop into high seed
* high seed
* the East all-star center
* his opponent's sidekick (a 22/5/5 all-defender)
* the future COY
* top defenses


Jordan

* nothing

Lebron had 3 years to develop his team into high seeds before entering the 06' playoffs in a conference that 1-star teams were winning, while Jordan had rookie low seeds in a conference that required a super-team to win

[RogueBorg]

Pippen was 33, 34, and 35 years old in Houston and Portalnd. Stop trolling. Thus is why we get the constant 1-9 arguments against Jordan.

Question. Since age and injury be dated, why didn't Michael Jordan win a championship with a hall of famer in Iceman George Gervin (he was 33) Charles Oakley, and Orlando Woolridge? Woolridge was a great scorer as well. Why didn't Jordan win?

Orlando Woolridge and George Gervin didn't play defense, couldn't rebound, and didn't pass the ball. Gervin didn't win anything in his prime, how's he helping anyone win in his last season? He's not. Orlando Woolridge never made an All-Star team, with or without Jordan. There's a reason why they shipped his @$$ out of Chicago, and there's a reason he never played more than two seasons with anyone upon leaving Chicago...he sucked.

[3ba11]

Orlando Woolridge and George Gervin didn't play defense, couldn't rebound, and didn't pass the ball. Gervin didn't win anything in his prime, how's he helping anyone win in his last season? He's not. Orlando Woolridge never made an All-Star team, with or without Jordan. There's a reason why they shipped his @$$ out of Chicago, and there's a reason he never played more than two seasons with anyone upon leaving Chicago...he sucked.

Exactly... Lebron entered the league with the East all-star center on his team and high seeds in a conference that 1-star teams were winning, while Jordan had no all-stars and low seeds in a conference that required a super-team to win it.

Lebron also added his opponent's sidekick (a 22/5/5 all-defender acquisition) and the future COY before entering the 06' Playoffs.. Otoh, Jordan made 85' Playoffs or the 89' ECF with nothing - a completely accolade-less cast of rookies

[RogueBorg]

Exactly... Lebron entered the league with the East all-star center on his team and high seeds in a conference that 1-star teams were winning, while Jordan had no all-stars and low seeds in a conference that required a super-team to win it.

Lebron also added his opponent's sidekick (a 22/5/5 all-defender acquisition) and the future COY before entering the 06' Playoffs.. Otoh, Jordan made 85' Playoffs or the 89' ECF with nothing - a completely accolade-less cast of rookies

These box score readers look at Woolridge's stat line, see 22 ppg and think "Great player." I saw him play, Orlando Woolridge sucked and it's proven by how long he lasted with each subsequent team. Every team got rid of him fast.

[97 bulls]

Orlando Woolridge and George Gervin didn't play defense, couldn't rebound, and didn't pass the ball. Gervin didn't win anything in his prime, how's he helping anyone win in his last season? He's not. Orlando Woolridge never made an All-Star team, with or without Jordan. There's a reason why they shipped his @$$ out of Chicago, and there's a reason he never played more than two seasons with anyone upon leaving Chicago...he sucked.

Are you even reading the exchange? Let's be consistent. If you have these expectations of Scottie Pippen at 33, then surely having a 33 year old Gervin and Woodridge should be sufficient right? I mean to at least get 1 game off the Celtics. If Pippen doesn't get the age exception then nobody should. Why didn't the Rockets get to the Finals with Clyde Drexler and a Barkley and Olajuwan that were 2 years younger than they were when Pippen arrived? Drexler is leaps and bounds ahead of Pippen right?

Maybe 3balls assessment is flawed.

[97 bulls]

These box score readers look at Woolridge's stat line, see 22 ppg and think "Great player." I saw him play, Orlando Woolridge sucked and it's proven by how long he lasted with each subsequent team. Every team got rid of him fast.

Theres no bigger box score reader than 3ball. And you're siding with him. He totally omits defense, rebounds, passing, intangibles. Woolridge hit 25ppg as a scorer one year. That what 3ball says Jordan needed. Why couldn't he get even 1 win vs the Celtics in 86? With Woolridge, a Hall of Famer in Gervin, and Charles Oakley.