Greatest floor raise of all time?

[ImKobe]

Kobe

'06 and '07 Lakers are worse than any team Lebron's ever played on. '08 Lakers were almost as bad too with the Bynum injury but they were sitting at 30 - 16 before Gasol played a game. He also single-handedly carried a decimated 2013 Lakers squad back into Playoff contention in his 17th season with Gasol, Nash, Blake etc missing 30+ games with a D-league bench.

[kawhileonard2]

Lebron played with Shaq who won league mvp and 3 finals mvp's and lost in round 2. Lebron played with Peak Duncan who had won 2 league mvp's and 3 finals mvp's and won bronze medal. Lebron played with Peak Wade who won finals mvp and got outplayed by Jason Terry. Lebron played with Derrick Rose who won mvp under age 30 which was the same as Kevin Durant who won mvp under 30 while both were on Golden State and Cleveland. Lebron played with mulitple PER leaders as well and now Russell Westbrook a league mvp winner and more triple doubles than Oscar Robertson. Yet despite all of that Lebron lost with all of them.

[Pip' N Rodman]

Kobe

'06 and '07 Lakers are worse than any team Lebron's ever played on. '08 Lakers were almost as bad too with the Bynum injury but they were sitting at 30 - 16 before Gasol played a game. He also single-handedly carried a decimated 2013 Lakers squad back into Playoff contention in his 17th season with Gasol, Nash, Blake etc missing 30+ games with a D-league bench.

Kobe missed the playoffs with these Lakers...

[kawhileonard2]

Kobe missed the playoffs with these Lakers...

Lebron missed with peak Shaq, Duncan winning bronze medals and losing in round 2.

[3ba11]

LeBron James.

Real evidence that Jordan is a vastly superior floor-raiser:

* 89' Jordan carried a low seed over the #1 SRS Cavs, who were vastly superior to the 07' Pistons or 18' Celtics (#7 SRS) that Lebron beat with top seeds.

* Jordan only lost with low seeds to the #1 SRS Bucks, the dynasty Celtics/Pistons and the Shaq/Penny Magic, so Jordan would've won every year if he was a high seed against the 18' Celtics (#7 SRS) or the 07' Pistons (#6 SRS).

* Lebron failed to carry lottery casts (teams that were lottery the prior year) to low playoffs seeds in 04', 05' and 19' - so he never had to carry his worst teams in the playoffs and only had high seeds/good teams in a conference that 1-star teams were winning, while Jordan had rookie low seed in a conference that required a super-team to win

* The 90' Bulls were inferior on both sides of the ball to the 09' Cavs (league favorite), yet Jordan beat Lebron to titles by winning the next year in 91', while Lebron lost in 10' despite adding Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite.

* Lebron's ball-dominant skillset reduces teammates to spot-up roles, while Jordan's scoring was partially off-ball and assisted, which elevates teammate role and allows fellow ball-handlers like Ingram, Hughes or Pippen to develop..

The 2000's East is the only conference in history that was won by multiple 1-star teams like Iverson, Dwight and Kidd, who matched Lebron's 2007 run..

And Lebron had the best 2nd option in the conference in 2018 and veteran, championship cast - not a "floor-raising" situation.

[ImKobe]

Kobe missed the playoffs with these Lakers...

They were in the Playoffs after the Warriors game so you're wrong.

[coastalmarker99]

In 1963 in which he was arguably saddled with the worst roster in NBA history, Wilt led the NBA in 15 of 22 statistical categories...including leading the league in scoring, rebounding, and setting a then-record FG% mark.

Keep that achievement in mind...as I will be bringing it up again.

Despite his individual brilliance, that team went 31-49 (losing a ton of close games BTW.)

How bad was that roster? Chamberlain shot .52.8...and his teammates collectively shot .41.2.

Plus no one even cracked 15 in PER, so he didn't have a single average teammate.



Even more importantly, the very next season, his new coach, Alex Hannum, conducted a pre-season scrimmage, without Wilt, with that roster going up against draft picks and undrafted players. Guess which team won the game?




I believe it was Hannum who commented on Chamberlain's incredible 1964 season, where he took one of the worst rosters in NBA history, to the Finals..."He has to play like Russell on the defensive end, and like Wilt on the offensive end."



The facts prove up his statement as no other all-time great has had a weaker supporting cast around him in the playoffs than 1964 Wilt.

The Warriors finished 3rd in SRS with a rookie Nate Thurmond and players like Wayne Hightower, Tom Meschery, and Guy Rodgers leading in shots.

Wilt had a .325 WS/48 in the regular season (3rd all-time), and his .323 WS/48 playoff run is 4th all-time in the Shot Clock Era.

In the WDF, with his team playing poorly, Wilt put up 38.6 PPG on a +7.8 rTS%.



In the Finals, he finished with 29.2 PPG on a +2.4 rTS% against the greatest defence of all time.

Only one other player (Tom Meschery) shot above 35 FG% in that series.

[TheGoatest]

2007 Cavs
2015 Playoff Cavs
2018 Cavs

The three worst supporting casts ever to be dragged to the finals by a single player

Made Mo Williams into an all-star as soon as he started playing with him. Playing with LeGOATest was like playing on the 1993-94 Chicago Bulls (2 x first time all-stars, 7 players averaged career highs in ppg) every season.

[Baller789]

2007 Cavs
2015 Playoff Cavs
2018 Cavs

The three worst supporting casts ever to be dragged to the finals by a single player

Made Mo Williams into an all-star as soon as he started playing with him. Playing with LeGOATest was like playing on the 1993-94 Chicago Bulls (2 x first time all-stars, 7 players averaged career highs in ppg) every season.

Weak competition.

[TheGoatest]

Weak competition.

Yes, we all know about the 90s.

[Baller789]

Yes, we all know about the 90s.

Yes. And Bron's conference is even weaker.

[TheGoatest]

Yes. And Bron's conference is even weaker.

He won his first healthy year in the west, being 6 months older than Jordan was in 1998.

Meanwhile in the 90s both east AND west were shit.

[Baller789]

He won his first healthy year in the west, being 6 months older than Jordan was in 1998.

Meanwhile in the 90s both east AND west were shit.

Sure, his competition was so tough Roy Hibbert gave him fits.

[TheGoatest]

Sure, his competition was so tough Roy Hibbert gave him fits.

You're just going to mention players who weren't the best players of the teams LeBron faced? Do you want me to say that Jordan got beaten by Bill Laimbeer thrice?

[Baller789]

You're just going to mention players who weren't the best players of the teams LeBron faced? Do you want me to say that Jordan got beaten by Bill Laimbeer thrice?

Better be beaten by Bill Laimbeer than Roy f*ck!ng Hibbert .

What's even funnier is that somehow, someway Jordan gets dragged to conversations by Bran stans. How insecure is that.