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  1. #16
    High School Varsity 6th Man
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    Default Re: Tom Brady to Retire

    Quote Originally Posted by AirBonner View Post
    Brady is easily the goat. Chips are a byproduct of his goat production
    And I disagree because championships need to be a consistent metric...when all the other greats have 2-3 championships looking at players that have more than that takes away from their legacy. Brady walked onto a team that was going to win titles...he had very little to do with it. He hung around long enough and acquired rings and stats because of time and rule changes...but he was always replaceable.

    The winning-est baseball player of all time is clearly top five in his position, multi-time MVP and he wasn't even a first ballot Hall of famer.

  2. #17
    NBA Legend AirBonner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tom Brady to Retire

    Quote Originally Posted by John8204 View Post
    And I disagree because championships need to be a consistent metric...when all the other greats have 2-3 championships looking at players that have more than that takes away from their legacy. Brady walked onto a team that was going to win titles...he had very little to do with it. He hung around long enough and acquired rings and stats because of time and rule changes...but he was always replaceable.

    The winning-est baseball player of all time is clearly top five in his position, multi-time MVP and he wasn't even a first ballot Hall of famer.
    Brady consistently lifted teams worse than Rodgers and Mahomes had to the super bowl.

  3. #18
    NBA Legend AirBonner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tom Brady to Retire

    Quote Originally Posted by John8204 View Post
    And I disagree because championships need to be a consistent metric...when all the other greats have 2-3 championships looking at players that have more than that takes away from their legacy. Brady walked onto a team that was going to win titles...he had very little to do with it. He hung around long enough and acquired rings and stats because of time and rule changes...but he was always replaceable.

    The winning-est baseball player of all time is clearly top five in his position, multi-time MVP and he wasn't even a first ballot Hall of famer.
    Imagine Brady with prime Moss and Gronk on the same team for 5 healthy years. That’s basically what Mahomes is struggling to work with

  4. #19
    The One CelticBaller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tom Brady to Retire

    >says Tom Brady has never been the best QB in the league

    >points out the year Tom Brady was unanimously chosen as the MVP

    > claims every QB with a playoff win that year was better

    > points out the 7 Super Bowl

    > now claims playoffs wins arenít relevant

    Lmao

  5. #20
    NBA Legend AirBonner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tom Brady to Retire

    Quote Originally Posted by CelticBaller View Post
    >says Tom Brady has never been the best QB in the league

    >points out the year Tom Brady was unanimously chosen as the MVP

    > claims every QB with a playoff win that year was better

    > points out the 7 Super Bowl

    > now claims playoffs wins aren’t relevant

    Lmao
    It’s hilarious how much gymnastics they have to do to discredit Brady. On top of it Brady also played in the league when they actually hit quarterbacks

  6. #21
    The Renaissance man bladefd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tom Brady to Retire

    Why do we act like Brady carried a bunch of scrubs to the superbowl over and over again in his backpack without any help?

    Let's consider the facts. Brady had the greatest coach in nfl history coaching him for most of his career. He always had elite o-lines. He always had elite defenses. He always had the greatest kicker in nfl history in Vinatieri for first half of his career then Gostkowski, another great kicker. He always had 1 great receiver from Wes Welker to Julian Edelman. Hernandez and Gronk were consistently there in the 2nd half of his career. For a couple years of his first half of his career, he had randy moss. He had plenty of help over the years so let's not act as if we feel sorry for the poor guy for having to carry his scrub teams.

  7. #22
    NBA Legend AirBonner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tom Brady to Retire

    Quote Originally Posted by bladefd View Post
    Why do we act like Brady carried a bunch of scrubs to the superbowl over and over again in his backpack without any help?

    Let's consider the facts. Brady had the greatest coach in nfl history coaching him for most of his career. He always had elite o-lines. He always had elite defenses. He always had the greatest kicker in nfl history in Vinatieri for first half of his career then Gostkowski, another great kicker. He always had 1 great receiver from Wes Welker to Julian Edelman. Hernandez and Gronk were consistently there in the 2nd half of his career. For a couple years of his first half of his career, he had randy moss. He had plenty of help over the years so let's not act as if we feel sorry for the poor guy for having to carry his scrub teams.
    Let’s stop acting like Rodgers and Mahomes don’t have comparable teams. When Brady has good teams more than not he wins.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Tom Brady to Retire

    Quote Originally Posted by CelticBaller View Post
    >says Tom Brady has never been the best QB in the league

    >points out the year Tom Brady was unanimously chosen as the MVP

    > claims every QB with a playoff win that year was better

    > points out the 7 Super Bowl

    > now claims playoffs wins aren’t relevant

    Lmao
    1. Often times I wouldn't even say he wasn't even top five, he's always been a game manager.
    2. It was a joke...but he was MVP and then lost to Mark Sanchez and the Jets
    3. And I point out that in the NFL you have a tipping point between being on a great team and being a great player.
    4. Ofcourse playoff wins are relevant but when you look at every player you could call the GOAT...they don't have 7 rings

    Lawrence Taylor - 2
    Johnny Unitas - 3
    Jim Brown - 1
    Peyton Manning - 2
    Deion Sanders - 2
    Jerry Rice - 3
    Joe Montana - 4
    Walter Payton - 1
    Don Hutson - 3
    Reggie White - 1

  9. #24
    The One CelticBaller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tom Brady to Retire

    tom brady led the league in TDs and Yards in his 3rd and 4th year over non "game managers"

    get real

  10. #25
    NBA Legend AirBonner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tom Brady to Retire

    Quote Originally Posted by CelticBaller View Post
    tom brady led the league in TDs and Yards in his 3rd and 4th year over non "game managers"

    get real
    They have no argument. Brady derangement syndrome is real and a coping mechanism

  11. #26
    The Renaissance man bladefd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tom Brady to Retire

    Quote Originally Posted by John8204 View Post
    1. Often times I wouldn't even say he wasn't even top five, he's always been a game manager.
    2. It was a joke...but he was MVP and then lost to Mark Sanchez and the Jets
    3. And I point out that in the NFL you have a tipping point between being on a great team and being a great player.
    4. Ofcourse playoff wins are relevant but when you look at every player you could call the GOAT...they don't have 7 rings

    Lawrence Taylor - 2
    Johnny Unitas - 3
    Jim Brown - 1
    Peyton Manning - 2
    Deion Sanders - 2
    Jerry Rice - 3
    Joe Montana - 4
    Walter Payton - 1
    Don Hutson - 3
    Reggie White - 1
    Also look at how many of those had elite coaching, elite o-lines, elite defenses, elite kicker, at least one consistent stud receiver providing a passing blanket. All of those factors for 20yrs.

    Peyton Manning had some of those for various pieces of his career but not all at once and certainly not for his entire career.
    Joe Montana had most of that for a decade so he is very close. Jerry Rice being there puts him in same boat as Montana.
    Rodgers certainly has not had that. Just an elite kicker and at least one stud receiver at all times. That is it. He had elite o-line for a couple years here, couple years there but never consistent.

    Brady is legendary and an all-time winner, but we must not lose track of what was backing him. Only Montana had anything close for 10yrs (won 4 chips in that span), but his career was cut short by injuries. Brady had that for 20yrs in a league that protected qbs/receivers more than any time in history. Montana didn't have that protection that severely crippled the opposing defenses.

    I believe Montana would have had just as much or probably much more success if he lived through Brady's 22yrs in the NFL from early 2000s to early 2020s. (Montana won 4 chips in 10yrs under much difficult circumstances facing defenses that the rules allowed them to beat the crap out of you, your receivers, tight-ends, etc).

  12. #27
    NBA Legend AirBonner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tom Brady to Retire

    Quote Originally Posted by bladefd View Post
    Also look at how many of those had elite coaching, elite o-lines, elite defenses, elite kicker, at least one consistent stud receiver providing a passing blanket. All of those factors for 20yrs.

    Peyton Manning had some of those for various pieces of his career but not all at once and certainly not for his entire career.
    Joe Montana had most of that for a decade so he is very close. Jerry Rice being there puts him in same boat as Montana.
    Rodgers certainly has not had that. Just an elite kicker and at least one stud receiver at all times. That is it. He had elite o-line for a couple years here, couple years there but never consistent.

    Brady is legendary and an all-time winner, but we must not lose track of what was backing him. Only Montana had anything close for 10yrs (won 4 chips in that span), but his career was cut short by injuries. Brady had that for 20yrs in a league that protected qbs/receivers more than any time in history. Montana didn't have that protection that severely crippled the opposing defenses.

    I believe Montana would have had just as much or probably much more success if he lived through Brady's 22yrs in the NFL from early 2000s to early 2020s. (Montana won 4 chips in 10yrs under much difficult circumstances facing defenses that the rules allowed them to beat the crap out of you, your receivers, tight-ends, etc).
    For all 20 years? Nahh you are delusional

  13. #28
    The One CelticBaller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tom Brady to Retire

    Quote Originally Posted by bladefd View Post
    Also look at how many of those had elite coaching, elite o-lines, elite defenses, elite kicker, at least one consistent stud receiver providing a passing blanket. All of those factors for 20yrs.

    Peyton Manning had some of those for various pieces of his career but not all at once and certainly not for his entire career.
    Joe Montana had most of that for a decade so he is very close. Jerry Rice being there puts him in same boat as Montana.
    Rodgers certainly has not had that. Just an elite kicker and at least one stud receiver at all times. That is it. He had elite o-line for a couple years here, couple years there but never consistent.

    Brady is legendary and an all-time winner, but we must not lose track of what was backing him. Only Montana had anything close for 10yrs (won 4 chips in that span), but his career was cut short by injuries. Brady had that for 20yrs in a league that protected qbs/receivers more than any time in history. Montana didn't have that protection that severely crippled the opposing defenses.

    I believe Montana would have had just as much or probably much more success if he lived through Brady's 22yrs in the NFL from early 2000s to early 2020s. (Montana won 4 chips in 10yrs under much difficult circumstances facing defenses that the rules allowed them to beat the crap out of you, your receivers, tight-ends, etc).
    Brady won half of his rings before the carson palmer/brady rule lol

  14. #29
    NBA Legend AirBonner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tom Brady to Retire

    Quote Originally Posted by CelticBaller View Post
    Brady won half of his rings before the carson palmer/brady rule lol
    Debunked again

  15. #30
    High School Varsity 6th Man
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    Default Re: Tom Brady to Retire

    Quote Originally Posted by AirBonner View Post
    They have no argument. Brady derangement syndrome is real and a coping mechanism
    Yeah y'know it's not like his numbers weren't inflated by having 6 games a year against the Dolphins, Jets, and Bills.

    Also...um the juicing the balls

    making large payments to teams secretaries

    In 2007, Bill Belichick’s name surfaced in a manner that he hoped didn’t after becoming involved in a divorce court case.

    Sharon Shenocca testified in February 2007 that Belichick sent her at least $150,00 to pay for lavish vacations as she labeled it as being only through his “generosity.”

    Shenocca previously met the future Hall of Fame head coach when they worked with the New York Giants. She served as a receptionist while he was an assistant coach. The relationship between the two came to the public light after Shenocca and her husband, Vincent Shenocca, split in 2006.

    Vincent accused his wife of adultery with Belichick, which became a prevalent topic in the court case. However, he dropped that discussion entirely; the financial support that the Patriots head coach provided gave the feeling of “hush” money for the situation.
    headset malfunctions

    At least five teams have suspected Patriots of headset tampering
    Posted by Michael David Smith on September 11, 2015, 9:38 AM EDT
    AP

    The term “Headsetgate” has just been coined and may not last, but the allegations that the Patriots tamper with visiting teams’ communications at Gillette Stadium are nothing new.

    With the Steelers suggesting that something was afoul on Thursday night in New England, there are now at least five teams that have accused the Patriots of tampering with communications:

    1. After the Jaguars lost to the Patriots in the playoffs following the 2005 season, then-Jacksonville coach Jack Del Rio said the headsets “mysteriously malfunctioned.”

    2. In 2006, then-Lions offensive coordinator Mike Martz suspected the Patriots of preventing him from communicating with his quarterback. As reported by Paul Zimmerman of Sports Illustrated, Martz had Detroit’s offense off to a good start until he lost the ability to call plays because the communications system went out. According to that report, it happened to the Lions twice, both times in the middle of drives when the Lions were picking up steam.

    3. Bengals coach Marvin Lewis was quoted by Zimmerman as responding to Martz’s accusation by saying the same thing that happened to the Lions had happened to the Bengals as well: “Yeah, I know,” Lewis said. “Headset went out. It happened to me in Foxboro, too.”

    4. Karlos Dansby said in an appearance on PFT Live this year that he suspected the Patriots of wrongdoing in 2008, when Dansby’s Cardinals visited New England and had trouble with their coach-to-helmet communications system.

    5. The Steelers now become at least the fifth team making accusations, with the team saying that its coach-to-coach communications repeatedly faced interference from the Patriots’ radio broadcast, and that the interference would stop when a league official came to the sideline to deal with it, only to start up again when the league official walked away.
    If this were baseball all of the shady stuff would keep him out of the Hall. He's basically Football's Pete Rose everyone knows he's dirty but he's popular so we don't talk about it.

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