Do you believe in God?

[1987_Lakers]

I have always stated if there is truly an argument : lets make it simple.

In the universe of stars a planet and living life could easily be better and more technical than ours.
Who is to say that an alien dropped the human race on our planet.
*It would take an awful lot of religious institutions and bury them.

I've always pondered this as well. The ancient Sumerians said we were created by an Alien race called the Anunnaki.

[theman93]

but black people are correct. it is partly the white mans fault for their downfall. but they're blaming the wrong white people. they think its racist republicans when in fact its greedy liberal politicians that just wanna use black people to further their political agendas and use them as pawns. the black family thrived before democrats went to peoples houses promising them welfare, benefits, special treatment. then they pushed the idea of systemic racism to explain why their communities were destroyed by the democratic system. they said its the oppressive white conservative that holds them down and societies racist culture is why their families are now separated and the men have resorted to gang violence and other short cuts. no its actually just a lack of father figures and structure. accountability. faith etc... the white liberal robbed the black community of their pride and integrity. obviously black people need to take some responsibility for this in order to rectify it but its hard breaking out something you've grown accustom to. it was greed that enabled the white liberal to push their handouts onto them.


as for abortions yes partly the daughter is responsible but at the same time shes a product of her upbringing. for instance. if a boy is tortured and abused to the point where he acts out his frustrations by hurting a pet. maybe pulling a cats tail or burning ants, shooting squirrels with slingshots or something. obviously the boy is demented and likely on a path of destruction where he might end up raping or killing someone. and he should be brought to justice. but at the same time you cant say the parent that drove that kid to near insanity didn't play a part in it and isnt also guilty


the point of this is about god being responsible for all of these actions/reactions and its simply not the case. isn't that the point you were trying to make.

most of life is free will. but every so often i think the supernatural plays a part in outcomes. but it seems to me like you are trying to advocate for all good deeds being gods will and all evil doings being the work of the devil. is that how you feel?

Of course a person's environment plays a role in that person's life, but at the end of the day you don't do anything unless you decide to do it. Ultimately you are responsible for your own actions regardless of your environment. To say otherwise would be like saying all of those who took part in owning and abusing slaves are just product of their environment and bear no responsibility for violating image bearers of God. Each individual made the conscious decision to either partake in that or break from societal norms and not partake in it.

And no my point was never God is responsible for everyone's actions, individuals are responsible for what they do with the life they are given.

Ultimately my position is that God's revelation is the standard to know good and to know evil. He has written his law on our hearts and there is no justification for morality apart from Him.

[theman93]

Are you really that bothered by the idea of subjective morality?

I'm not bothered by it at all, I'm simply asking for a justification for it.

[John_Connor]

Of course a person's environment plays a role in that person's life, but at the end of the day you don't do anything unless you decide to do it. Ultimately you are responsible for your own actions regardless of your environment. To say otherwise would be like saying all of those who took part in owning and abusing slaves are just product of their environment and bear no responsibility for violating image bearers of God. Each individual made the conscious decision to either partake in that or break from societal norms and not partake in it.

And no my point was never God is responsible for everyone's actions, individuals are responsible for what they do with the life they are given.

Ultimately my position is that God's revelation is the standard to know good and to know evil. He has written his law on our hearts and there is no justification for morality apart from Him.

well theres a problem with your logic. cause under current laws people aren't responsible for their own choices in certain cases

like

1. coercion
2. entrapment
3. blackmail
4. self defense
5. neurological disorders
6. intoxication
7. emotional abuse


all of these and more have been used to absolve guilt of individuals or pass blame


as for slaves personally i believe that people in general were less evolved and up until that point slaves were used around the world since the beginning of humanity. and an argument can be made that their property was stolen and slave owners are in fact the ones deserving of reparations. but obviously thats entirely opinion based like any moral opinion. the old testament is a good example of how times change and peoples opinion of right and wrong changes. who knows. maybe in another 300 years we will think of marriage as a type of slavery or having pets as a type of slavery. or maybe the age of consent changes again and people that married and impregnated people under the age of 25 will be considered pedophiles to future generations and suddenly they will be considered evil. a scientific argument can be made for that since our brains aren't fully developed before that age.


so its impossible to say what god believes is right and wrong. it used to say in the bible - "slaves obey your earthly masters as though they were jesus"

it also used to say "smash your enemies kids heads against rocks" and "if a man rapes a woman he must pay her father 50 pieces of silver and marry her"


so yeah. god can't keep up with our bullshit societies that can't make up their mind. and its different all around the world. you think god has different rules for muslims that marry 12/13 year olds?

they throw gays off buildings. its literally in the quran. in their hearts and minds that isn't evil to them. its also not evil for them to rape non muslim women. they're infidels. they have no rights under god. their own women barely have rights under god

so yeah its all circumstantial and opinion/culture based. there is no one set of laws under god

[theman93]

well theres a problem with your logic. cause under current laws people aren't responsible for their own choices in certain cases

like

1. coercion
2. entrapment
3. blackmail
4. self defense
5. neurological disorders
6. intoxication
7. emotional abuse


all of these and more have been used to absolve guilt of individuals or pass blame


as for slaves personally i believe that people in general were less evolved and up until that point slaves were used around the world since the beginning of humanity. and an argument can be made that their property was stolen and slave owners are in fact the ones deserving of reparations. but obviously thats entirely opinion based like any moral opinion. the old testament is a good example of how times change and peoples opinion of right and wrong changes. who knows. maybe in another 300 years we will think of marriage as a type of slavery or having pets as a type of slavery. or maybe the age of consent changes again and people that married and impregnated people under the age of 25 will be considered pedophiles to future generations and suddenly they will be considered evil. a scientific argument can be made for that since our brains aren't fully developed before that age.


so its impossible to say what god believes is right and wrong. it used to say in the bible - "slaves obey your earthly masters as though they were jesus"

it also used to say "smash your enemies kids heads against rocks" and "if a man rapes a woman he must pay her father 50 pieces of silver and marry her"


so yeah. god can't keep up with our bullshit societies that can't make up their mind. and its different all around the world. you think god has different rules for muslims that marry 12/13 year olds?

they throw gays off buildings. its literally in the quran. in their hearts and minds that isn't evil to them. its also not evil for them to rape non muslim women. they're infidels. they have no rights under god. their own women barely have rights under god

so yeah its all circumstantial and opinion/culture based. there is no one set of laws under god

Sure maybe under current law in the US. But what about the laws in China? South Africa? Australia? Nazi Germany? What if those laws change? Which law is correct and why?

Your just proof reading the text. It's pretty clear you haven't dug to understand the context of those verses.

Either way, none of those things would be wrong (how your reading them) anyways in your world view. Anybody can do anything and it be moral if they get enough endorphins.

The whole evolved enough argument has always been a poor one. There's not a morality to evolve towards. There's just things that happen when you remove God who sets an objective moral standard from the picture. We're all just bags of nerves floating around the cosmos bumping in to each other. Abortion, molestation, rape, murder...it's all just goo bouncing off goo.

[Chick Stern]

Sure maybe under current law in the US. But what about the laws in China? South Africa? Australia? Nazi Germany? What if those laws change? Which law is correct and why?

Your just proof reading the text. It's pretty clear you haven't dug to understand the context of those verses.

Either way, none of those things would be wrong (how your reading them) anyways in your world view. Anybody can do anything and it be moral if they get enough endorphins.

The whole evolved enough argument has always been a poor one. There's not a morality to evolve towards. There's just things that happen when you remove God who sets an objective moral standard from the picture. We're all just bags of nerves floating around the cosmos bumping in to each other. Abortion, molestation, rape, murder...it's all just goo bouncing off goo.

laws do change, all the time. Morals do as well.

[theman93]

laws do change, all the time. Morals do as well.

So you would agree that it's sometimes a good and moral thing to rape a child?

[Chick Stern]

So you would agree that it's sometimes a good and moral thing to rape a child?

As usual, a zealot takes a giant, delusional leap of correlation.

No I don’t. The bible however, does.

Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
—Psalm 137:9

But he would not listen to her; and being stronger than she, he forced her and lay with her.
— 2 Samuel 13:14

[highwhey]

As usual, a zealot takes a giant, delusional leap of correlation.

No I don’t. The bible however, does.

Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
—Psalm 137:9

But he would not listen to her; and being stronger than she, he forced her and lay with her.
— 2 Samuel 13:14

typical liberal, taking a verse out of context. you have no idea what the first text is referring to. hint: not about rape. babilon was sacked, the kids were killed...that's what the verse is telling...those kids got their heads bashed into rocks.

2nd text, it's telling the story about a prince that raped his brother's wife. it's not encouraging it, it;s literally telling the story about the events.

go back 2 reddit nerd.

[John_Connor]

Sure maybe under current law in the US. But what about the laws in China? South Africa? Australia? Nazi Germany? What if those laws change? Which law is correct and why?

Your just proof reading the text. It's pretty clear you haven't dug to understand the context of those verses.

Either way, none of those things would be wrong (how your reading them) anyways in your world view. Anybody can do anything and it be moral if they get enough endorphins.

The whole evolved enough argument has always been a poor one. There's not a morality to evolve towards. There's just things that happen when you remove God who sets an objective moral standard from the picture. We're all just bags of nerves floating around the cosmos bumping in to each other. Abortion, molestation, rape, murder...it's all just goo bouncing off goo.

you're just continuously proving my point for me. laws are different everywhere and in every time. every religion has different ones. every culture has different morals. i lean towards there being a god but man made religion is just absurd. a cross to me a sign of faith and sacrifice for your beliefs. if anyone actually thinks there was a levitating undead zombie magician walking on water and healing the blind. turning water into wine etc... then theres something seriously wrong with you. religion has some benefits for the mentally weak. it can act as a crutch and instil fear in those without a moral compass. it can also provide answers for people who need to know everything about the universe because they feel vulnerable and insignificant. thinking you might die and go nowhere and cease to exist can be a scary thought. but you don't need religion to believe in an afterlife. there are more practical belief systems.

you can't honestly believe god sent his one and only son or prophet down to some middle eastern desert with a bunch of jews or muslims to tell people not to rape or kill. then die for the sins of adam and eve cause they ate an apple or rape a child and tell people whats what or he'l shoot them with fireballs. and yes i know not everything in the bible is meant to be taken seriously. like everything is metaphors ok. and in the quran maybe adam wasn't actually 98 feet tall and maybe mountains aren't just here to keep the planet from flying into space. but man you gotta give yourself more credit. evolution doesn't just effect our bodies. it also effects our judgement. neanderthals/cromagnon man is a reality. they did exist. so did dinosaurs. and no jesus wasn't riding them like a horse. they weren't his pets either. they were here before us.

humans have a 3rd nictitating membrane in our eyes from when we were lizards. we still have remnants of a tail. when we get spooked our hairs on our arms stick up because when humans had fur it would puff out like a cat that wants to look bigger and tougher to its enemy. we can also still move our ears with muscles from when we could point them at something to focus on them like an animal does. then theres organs we had to digest raw meat. incisors to rip flesh. and the front of our skulls are extra strong from when he butted heads with other lesser evolved creatures. evolution is literally going on right now with penguins, whales, dolphins and otters. they're all in the middle of a transition from land to sea. you need a more practical outlook on things. try reading a book or something ( other than the bible )

So you would agree that it's sometimes a good and moral thing to rape a child?

the prophet Muhammad raped children


unless you think it was ok for them because of the lowered life expectancy at the time. in that case should someone with a terminal illness that isn't expected to live past 25-30 be able to have sex with 6-9 year olds?


and i don't even think muhammad was that age when he died. sources say he was in his 50's when he married aisha

and if you think muslims don't count then mother mary was between 12-14 when she had jesus. is that ok? is god a pedo?

[Lakers Legend#32]

LOL at the sheep who believe the magical invisible man in the sky micromanages 7 billion peoples lives.

[Axe]

LeGod is the only sincere god here..

[Gohan]

Yall will be surprised by this but i can confirm god is actually a female. Im not talking bout that crappy ass ariana grande song either. She is also the finest woman BY FAR in the universe. Im being serious too

[theman93]

you're just continuously proving my point for me. laws are different everywhere and in every time. every religion has different ones. every culture has different morals. i lean towards there being a god but man made religion is just absurd. a cross to me a sign of faith and sacrifice for your beliefs. if anyone actually thinks there was a levitating undead zombie magician walking on water and healing the blind. turning water into wine etc... then theres something seriously wrong with you. religion has some benefits for the mentally weak. it can act as a crutch and instil fear in those without a moral compass. it can also provide answers for people who need to know everything about the universe because they feel vulnerable and insignificant. thinking you might die and go nowhere and cease to exist can be a scary thought. but you don't need religion to believe in an afterlife. there are more practical belief systems.

you can't honestly believe god sent his one and only son or prophet down to some middle eastern desert with a bunch of jews or muslims to tell people not to rape or kill. then die for the sins of adam and eve cause they ate an apple or rape a child and tell people whats what or he'l shoot them with fireballs. and yes i know not everything in the bible is meant to be taken seriously. like everything is metaphors ok. and in the quran maybe adam wasn't actually 98 feet tall and maybe mountains aren't just here to keep the planet from flying into space. but man you gotta give yourself more credit. evolution doesn't just effect our bodies. it also effects our judgement. neanderthals/cromagnon man is a reality. they did exist. so did dinosaurs. and no jesus wasn't riding them like a horse. they weren't his pets either. they were here before us.

humans have a 3rd nictitating membrane in our eyes from when we were lizards. we still have remnants of a tail. when we get spooked our hairs on our arms stick up because when humans had fur it would puff out like a cat that wants to look bigger and tougher to its enemy. we can also still move our ears with muscles from when we could point them at something to focus on them like an animal does. then theres organs we had to digest raw meat. incisors to rip flesh. and the front of our skulls are extra strong from when he butted heads with other lesser evolved creatures. evolution is literally going on right now with penguins, whales, dolphins and otters. they're all in the middle of a transition from land to sea. you need a more practical outlook on things. try reading a book or something ( other than the bible )






the prophet Muhammad raped children


unless you think it was ok for them because of the lowered life expectancy at the time. in that case should someone with a terminal illness that isn't expected to live past 25-30 be able to have sex with 6-9 year olds?


and i don't even think muhammad was that age when he died. sources say he was in his 50's when he married aisha

and if you think muslims don't count then mother mary was between 12-14 when she had jesus. is that ok? is god a pedo?

You believe fish turned in to philosophers, so none of what you’re saying about the Bible is as far fetched as your trying to make it out to be. Miracles are happening every day and all around you in your world view.

What it comes down to though with your agnosticism is that ultimately you don’t know. But here you are making truth claims. You have no certainty about anything but live as though you do. You say with your chest out that mom’s who murder their children are sub-human scum and deserve to die. But that can’t be true at all with your agnosticism because you don’t know anything.

[theman93]

As usual, a zealot takes a giant, delusional leap of correlation.

No I don’t. The bible however, does.

Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
—Psalm 137:9

But he would not listen to her; and being stronger than she, he forced her and lay with her.
— 2 Samuel 13:14

No it’s not I’m just going off what you told me - morals change. Which means molesting children or raping women is actually good and moral from time to time.

And as usual, you are proof reading the text. What the Bible says has nothing to do with your position.

Defend your position that morals change without using the Bible.