Rod Strickland, Harden, and Kyrie make the same play. The one from 1991 is a travel.

[Kblaze8855]

Forgive my boredom in this pregame. Let me just show you something real quick then let you be and we can discuss it later….
















31 years ago. Travel.


These days:













Legal.

Im not here to call the new ones travels. The league decided that first step is merely finishing the last dribble and is a “zero” step. So 3 steps are 0-1-2. You write it that way…fine. Not a travel. Let’s not argue that. Rod can’t do it. His godson can. People take such things and conclude players are capable of more amazing things when there is more to it. Whatever.

My question to you is…are you ok with it? You were told 2 steps all your life. People might take 3 and get away with it be it 1935 or now(I actually have clips of some brutal 30s travels by the way). But it’s actually written now. You can take 3 steps.

All I wanna know is are you fine with that decision and what do you think of making the game easier for the “top” level instead of harder? Must be so hard teaching kids to play and not travel when the nba legalizes it. It’s legal there. But almost nowhere else. So kids can’t emulate their heroes moves legally on most levels. I’m sure they do it anyway and largely get away with it but you know what I mean.

Just some pregame rambling. I’ll get back to this later unless there’s a massive blowout that brings me back sooner….

[kawhileonard2]

Another reason why numbers are inflated and easier to score nowadays.

[2much_knowledge]

Any person with half a brain knows while today has more talent, it also easier than ever to inflate numbers due to rule changes. Undeniable truth

[Kblaze8855]

Any person with half a brain knows while today has more talent, it also easier than ever to inflate numbers due to rule changes. Undeniable truth

Its weird to me for the league to both want to push the idea that the players are better but allow them to play an easier game.

Not like Harden, Kyrie, Giannis, and so on can’t destroy you with 2 steps. You look for it you can find them doing amazing previously legal drives. But you give some of these guys the extra step(s) it’s like guarding Barry Sanders










I can see how Wilt had a resentment of a lot of more modern players when he’d say in his day they kept changing the rules to make it harder for him but they change it now to make it easier.

I get that people love offense but when does it end?

Manu, Wade, and others were absolutely destroying guys and mostly having to take 2 steps on moves like this. Wade had people frozen. Manu could two step with a number of variations. It was entertaining. But the people complaining about some violations going uncalled makes them simply lie and call the first step 0 instead of 1 so it’s 0-1-2(legal) not 1-2-3(travel)?

That had to be maybe the laziest fix to a problem ever.

We probably all need to shut up about the unstoppable carry moves too. They used to see it and try to make people like AI and Rod stop with a run of heavy enforcement. We complain too much now they’ll make a “The bottom of the ball is part of the side” rule official. Sounds ludicrous but no more so than calling a step 0 instead of 1.

[97 bulls]

Its weird to me for the league to both want to push the idea that the players are better but allow them to play an easier game.

Not like Harden, Kyrie, Giannis, and so on can’t destroy you with 2 steps. You look for it you can find them doing amazing previously legal drives. But you give some of these guys the extra step(s) it’s like guarding Barry Sanders










I can see how Wilt had a resentment of a lot of more modern players when he’d say in his day they kept changing the rules to make it harder for him but they change it now to make it easier.

I get that people love offense but when does it end?

Manu, Wade, and others were absolutely destroying guys and mostly having to take 2 steps on moves like this. Wade had people frozen. Manu could two step with a number of variations. It was entertaining. But the people complaining about some violations going uncalled makes them simply lie and call the first step 0 instead of 1 so it’s 0-1-2(legal) not 1-2-3(travel)?

That had to be maybe the laziest fix to a problem ever.

We probably all need to shut up about the unstoppable carry moves too. They used to see it and try to make people like AI and Rod stop with a run of heavy enforcement. We complain too much now they’ll make a “The bottom of the ball is part of the side” rule official. Sounds ludicrous but no more so than calling a step 0 instead of 1.

I always say the rule changes in basketball are similar to the ones implemented in football for the DBs and WRs. It's do much more easier for wide receivers to get open today due to the rule changes. And no football fan denies it. Or says players today are better and use stats as an argument. I've only seen this logic with NBA fans. It's weird.

[tpols]

I always say the rule changes in basketball are similar to the ones implemented in football for the DBs and WRs. It's do much more easier for wide receivers to get open today due to the rule changes. And no football fan denies it. Or says players today are better and use stats as an argument. I've only seen this logic with NBA fans. It's weird.

Somebody here after the super bowl said cooper kupp is the greatest WR of the past 20 years because of his stats. And I was thinking shit... Randy moss and Terrell Owens played in the past 20 years. There s no way cooper kupp was better than Julio Jones or Megatron either. Guys used to get killed going over the middle. So all these fancy plays where you have tall slender WRs running all his midrange action... they would get laid out 20 years ago. Nowadays its a big penalty to "hit a defenseless receiver". So they just made the rules softer for offense which is why we see the stat increase.

[ShawkFactory]

Rod Strickland and Tim Hardaway would be absolute nightmares today.

[97 bulls]

Somebody here after the super bowl said cooper kupp is the greatest WR of the past 20 years because of his stats. And I was thinking shit... Randy moss and Terrell Owens played in the past 20 years. There s no way cooper kupp was better than Julio Jones or Megatron either. Guys used to get killed going over the middle. So all these fancy plays where you have tall slender WRs running all his midrange action... they would get laid out 20 years ago. Nowadays its a big penalty to "hit a defenseless receiver". So they just made the rules softer for offense which is why we see the stat increase.

Leagues have always taken steps towards offense. That's what fans want to see. The rules for WRs in the NFL, the MLB lowering the pitchers mound to help hitters, or the rule changes in basketball.

What's insane is the blatant willingness to ignore these facts. Over 200 people have viewed this thread. But very few responses. But these same viewers will then go and make a thread or comment in a thread, talking about how much more talented and skilled and athletic the league is today.

I remember Bob Cousey saying that alot of the assists Magic Johnson was credited with wouldn't have been considered an assist in his time. The term inconvient truth has never been more appropriate.

[Kblaze8855]

But these same viewers will then go and make a thread or comment in a thread, talking about how much more talented and skilled and athletic the league is today.

I don’t exactly have a problem with that. Almost every era since the 60s had easier rules than the one before it because entertainment beats fundamentals every time. I can acknowledge the incredible skills of a lot of these guys even as they break old rules. Like you mentioned I would like people to acknowledge the benefit of not having to play by the rules but really…if you’re 19? You don’t remember the rules being enforced differently.


There was a time that a hesi that even approached a carry or discontinued dribble was illegal. There is no way a guy on Jordan’s level gets called for this today:















It does look like he almost touched it with the off hand but he didn’t. That little bit of hesi or fumble just looks awkward.


Today?

Kyrie uses a hand switch hesi as a common move nightly. It’s an evolution of the carry hesi Isaiah and Kemba killed people with.

You carry the ball up….use your off hand to “shadow” it and give the impression you’re pulling up. People train to do it and there are many kids watching videos teaching it:








Done at high speed you don’t even see the carry and you only simulate the double dribble as Steph does here:















The problem is they do it so often and so quickly and have the credibility lent to them by their legit skills refs don’t see when they:













which is completely unguardable.


How do you defend a Steph or a Kyrie when they pick up the ball and look at the rim? They’re too good not to honor the shot fake hesi and every single one of those moves would be called a carry or a double dribble in the past.


I’ve watched Steph carry twice and shot fake double dribble in like 3 seconds. Kyrie might do it on back to back dribbles. He’s so quick with it and the refs know he’s nasty and his moves are hard to follow so he gets away with it under the assumption he’s just that good.


If you don’t remember a shot fake hesi being a discontinued dribble it’s just a nice move not a “Wtf?”.


And old people complaining sound like the old people complaining to us about Jordan traveling. I don’t know where it will be in 20 years but I bet whatever insane moves they workshop and master Kyrie could do today if they let him.

Double dribbles will probably be downright legal by then.

[HylianNightmare]

Another reason why numbers are inflated and easier to score nowadays.

This. And people act like if you gave any 70s or 80s team some time to adjust they would still get destroyed by today's teams

[r0drig0lac]

Another reason why numbers are inflated and easier to score nowadays.

this and illegal screens are the only reasons there are so many "super talented offensive players", product of the clowning that are the current rules.

[3ba11]

do you have a problem with it

Yes because the extras carry and travel ability allows today's players to make more athletic-looking plays and dunks... So everyone thinks they're more athletic when it's a function of the extras momentum gleaned from the travel and carries.

We already know that Ben Johnson ran a 9.78 in 1988 and the current record is an abnormal 9.58... so 0.2 seconds isn't making guys get over the rim more than before... But the carries and travels do.. they allow extra momentum heading towards the rim

[Im Still Ballin]

Carrying + travelling + illegal screens + no hand-checking + freedom of movement rule

[Kblaze8855]

The freedom of movement and illegal screens could be a whole other topic. They are just buzzwords now and the change is so built in that fans no longer notice. Those first couple years of really getting it the way they wanted it called and training defenders in the new way to play?

Shit like this is how they got rid of defense:









You don’t even see anything like a foul there. And when play continues(this is the very same clip split in two):






they get him again!




They made everyone go watch the film and adjust. Not only can you not hold off the ball you can’t touch to feel when they go. Kyle Anderson was talking about that once. He’s not even used to real 2000s and earlier physical off ball d. He’s a fully modern player and when they changed he was complaining about not even being able to keep track off the ball with a light touch to see which way a guy might go.

Sure you can find plays with contact now but it is a whole different game to what Reggie or Jordan types had to do off the ball to get open. They beat it out of the defenders. Now contact is a mistake. Guys used to just hold your jersey. You’d see jerseys coming untucked on every few cuts. Guys like Reggie and Iverson would have the collar of their jersey stretched from tugging all day.

You can absolutely lose people off the ball now with much less effort so the people actually good at it like Steph?

People feel like it’s hate when you point it out but it’s true that you just can’t play that way without these rules.

Players today do put in more defensive effort on average than in the mid 90s going back and they are FAR better prepared so with similar rules teams would be getting absolutely demolished by these defenses. And it started to happen early 2000s. Modern prep, training, and effort with old school rules combined to have teams scoring 39 points at the end of 3 in the playoffs and it just wasn’t acceptable to marketing departments. Nets and Pistons had 34 and 27 at halftime and I bet Stern decided right then to begin the transition.

The response was to rig it towards the offense and worked. Then they did it again. And again. Now young fans think that’s what basketball is…instead of what the nba decided was entertaining.

Its annoying but it is what it is.

[L.Kizzle]

They're adapting to how players play the game IMO.
From street ball, AAU ball. All that has an effect to what is called now. When you think of PGs on the early 90s, only a few were like Rod. Timmy, Kenny Anderson and later on AI. I can't remember Payton, Stockton, Terry Porter, Danny Ainge playing like them.
But a few years later you have Marbury, Francis, Jason Williams. If 8 out of 10 PGs are now playing like that instead of 1 out of 10, you have to follow the 8 ...