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  1. #226
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    Default Re: There has never been a more mind****ed ATG player than Kevin Durant

    Quote Originally Posted by warriorfan View Post
    KD gets points for being able to play with Steph Curry? Who has proven to elevate his teammates more then pretty much anyone in history? What about when he tried to hijack the system in Golden State multiple times. One of them almost making them lose to the rockets?



    What do you think that exchange was all about? Was that Russ’ fault too?
    Did I say he deserves points for being able to do that? No I didn't. I said he wasn't nearly as much of the reason for that style of play and his time in GS and Russ's time everywhere else proves that.

    A coach telling an ATG to move the ball and trust their teammates. What's your point? There's greater players in history then both KD and Steph that have had to be told that.

  2. #227
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer DMAVS41's Avatar
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    Default Re: There has never been a more mind****ed ATG player than Kevin Durant

    Quote Originally Posted by guy View Post
    When basically no other team ever has? Okay.
    So, just to be clear...the take is that the Thunder had no chance to win because of style...even though they were up 3-1 in 2016 on the Warriors.

    The Thunder that year had the 2nd best offense, an above average defense, and the 3rd best net rating.

    They have a home game 6...the Thunder have the lead pretty much the entire game...up 7 points with 5 minutes left...in a game Durant shoots 10/31...and you are saying they can't win? If Durant and or Russ just play a little better...that series is over and they are favorites in the finals.

    It is just silly...it isn't easy to win titles...nor should it be...but to say Durant just couldn't win with the Thunder is more of a reflection of how good you actually think Durant is....if you really believe what you are arguing that is.

  3. #228
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer warriorfan's Avatar
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    Default Re: There has never been a more mind****ed ATG player than Kevin Durant

    Quote Originally Posted by guy View Post
    Did I say he deserves points for being able to do that? No I didn't. I said he wasn't nearly as much of the reason for that style of play and his time in GS and Russ's time everywhere else proves that.

    A coach telling an ATG to move the ball and trust their teammates. What's your point? There's greater players in history then both KD and Steph that have had to be told that.
    You blamed KDís iso centric play on Russ. He tried to bring it over to GS. Is that Russí fault too?

  4. #229
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    Default Re: There has never been a more mind****ed ATG player than Kevin Durant

    Quote Originally Posted by DMAVS41 View Post
    So, just to be clear...the take is that the Thunder had no chance to win because of style...even though they were up 3-1 in 2016 on the Warriors.

    The Thunder that year had the 2nd best offense, an above average defense, and the 3rd best net rating.

    They have a home game 6...the Thunder have the lead pretty much the entire game...up 7 points with 5 minutes left...in a game Durant shoots 10/31...and you are saying they can't win? If Durant and or Russ just play a little better...that series is over and they are favorites in the finals.

    It is just silly...it isn't easy to win titles...nor should it be...but to say Durant just couldn't win with the Thunder is more of a reflection of how good you actually think Durant is....if you really believe what you are arguing that is.
    They wouldíve lost to the Cavs. That style of play isnít sustainable over an entire playoff run. Is it absolutely impossible? No nothing is impossible but more then likely they lose to the Cavs.

    You can bring up all those advanced stats from the regular season but if youíre that much of a flawed team you eventually get exposed in the playoffs. Thereís little chance if any of that flawed of a team beating the Spurs, Warriors and Cavs in 3 straight rounds and what really happened is they only got about halfway there.

    Can you tell me the team with that style of play and/or with that low IQ and high usage PG that has ever won a title? Maybe Iím missing something.

  5. #230
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer warriorfan's Avatar
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    Default Re: There has never been a more mind****ed ATG player than Kevin Durant

    If KD didnít choke to the Warriors he would have choked to the Cavs.


    Great argument.


  6. #231
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer DMAVS41's Avatar
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    Default Re: There has never been a more mind****ed ATG player than Kevin Durant

    Quote Originally Posted by guy View Post
    They would’ve lost to the Cavs. That style of play isn’t sustainable over an entire playoff run. Is it absolutely impossible? No nothing is impossible but more then likely they lose to the Cavs.

    You can bring up all those advanced stats from the regular season but if you’re that much of a flawed team you eventually get exposed in the playoffs. There’s little chance if any of that flawed of a team beating the Spurs, Warriors and Cavs in 3 straight rounds and what really happened is they only got about halfway there.

    Can you tell me the team with that style of play and/or with that low IQ and high usage PG that has ever won a title? Maybe I’m missing something.
    You are saying "style" as if Durant wasn't a major part of it...then you are using low IQ to describe a deservedly first or second team all-nba player in Russ to somehow diminish how great he was.

    I disagree with your entire framing...it literally took a borderline choke from both Russ and Durant to lose the 16 Warriors series...and your response is that they couldn't beat the Cavs because winning one more series isn't sustainable???

    You are only saying what you are because they lost. But even then...it is just not even factually true...the Thunder had a lot of success...and in the playoffs as well...

    2010 - Gave the Lakers a series
    2011 - Made the WCF
    2012 - Made the Finals
    2013 - Hard arguably the best team in the league before Russ got hurt
    2014 - Made the WCF
    2016 - Made the WCF and had to play poorly to lose

    What about that run screams not sustainable?

    Teams with Durant level players and Russ level Robins that do the above don't get to say "we had no chance to win"...it's so ****ing absurd.

  7. #232
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    Default Re: There has never been a more mind****ed ATG player than Kevin Durant

    Quote Originally Posted by DMAVS41 View Post
    You are saying "style" as if Durant wasn't a major part of it
    I guess you can say he was, but he's proven that he could play outside of that style and Russ hasn't, and I think its been clear to anyone watching Russ throughout his career that he's probably completely incapable of it.

    Sure, even with Durant on the Warriors he did revert back at times to that ISO style, but I really don't see the difference between that and what Jordan and Kobe regularly did when they went outside the triangle. And alot of times in all 3 cases it was needed. The difference between Durant in OKC and Durant in GSW is in OKC thats the only way they could play because they didn't have a foundation focused on ball-movement to fall back on because their PG was completely incapable of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by DMAVS41 View Post
    ...then you are using low IQ to describe a deservedly first or second team all-nba player in Russ to somehow diminish how great he was.
    So now its controversial to say Russ is low IQ? Seriously? Like that hasn't been a trending topic for 10+ years now? This is the same guy that Magic Johnson said had the worst PG performance he'd ever seen in the middle of the finals. Same guy who's coach sat the entire 4th quarter in a 2011 WCF game (so basically in his prime), which happened to be the only game they won in that series .

    Like I said, he's a very unique player because the highs and lows with him are so dramatic. What other great player is talked about like that, and getting coached like that?

    Quote Originally Posted by DMAVS41 View Post
    I disagree with your entire framing...it literally took a borderline choke from both Russ and Durant to lose the 16 Warriors series...and your response is that they couldn't beat the Cavs because winning one more series isn't sustainable???
    Didn't say it was impossible, just very unlikely given all of basketball history and I can't blame him for leaving because of it (where he went is a different story). Winning one more series is a big deal. Its literally 25% of a championship run. And in this case, probably the hardest one. Its not the equivalent of just winning 4 more games in the regular season.

    Quote Originally Posted by DMAVS41 View Post

    You are only saying what you are because they lost. But even then...it is just not even factually true...the Thunder had a lot of success...and in the playoffs as well...
    So is there something that says there style of play is sustainable is factually true? Because there's nothing that says that. They didn't win. No one ever said they didn't have any success.

    Quote Originally Posted by DMAVS41 View Post

    What about that run screams not sustainable?
    Well first off, they didn't win. Second, no team, not just them, has ever won with that style of play at least to that extent. Third, no team that has had a PG that played that big of a role on a championship team has ever been that low IQ of a player and had the weaknesses Russ has had - not Magic, Isiah, Billups, Parker, Rondo, Curry, Kyrie (yea not even him), Lowry, Holiday.

    Quote Originally Posted by DMAVS41 View Post

    Teams with Durant level players and Russ level Robins that do the above don't get to say "we had no chance to win"...it's so ****ing absurd.
    If we just reduce analyses to eye popping stats and awards, your opinion is valid. But its clearly not that simple. If you just make it a basketball argument, I don't know how anyone who's watched him for this long can come to the conclusion that Westbrook was a championship-level player. And its not even a controversial opinion to say that or that he's not nearly as great as his stats would suggest . Analysts have been saying that for years.

    I think at the very least, regardless of who's to blame between KD and Russ, I think most can at least agree that that style of play is a terrible style of play to expect to win a championship.

  8. #233
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer DMAVS41's Avatar
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    Default Re: There has never been a more mind****ed ATG player than Kevin Durant

    They didn’t win in large part because Durant didn’t play well enough nor was he the kind of leader a team needs to win. That is just as valid, really more if you know NBA history, than claiming he didn’t have enough help.

    Like I said… you are only saying that because the player you are propping shot 10-31 in the biggest game of his career… and his team you claim wasn’t good enough… still had a lead with 5 minutes left. Blaming the help is so weak in a situation like that. I’d agree with you if they just couldn’t do anything unless KD was elite, but that wasn’t the case.

    Agree to disagree about Russ. He was a monster from basically 11-16 and was deservedly first or second team all-nba.

    Durant hasn’t proven anything of note beyond what we already knew…the notion that he proved something by winning on the Warriors is silly imo.
    Last edited by DMAVS41; 07-08-2022 at 11:59 AM.

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