2022 off season Post Gobert. A new era begins

[Xiao Yao You]

https://www.ksl.com/article/50475245...ut-jazz-roster

What's the definition of insanity — doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? Yes, the Jazz would have been crazy to run back the same broken record again, all the while trying to again convince us Mitchell and Gobert were good buddies.

that insanity got Stockton and Malone to the finals. How about trying a new coach instead?

[Xiao Yao You]

https://kslsports.com/492585/jazz-fo...rance-advance/

Fontecchio had been a breakout star for the Italians averaging 19.4 points per game, good for eighth-best among all EuroBasket performers while shooting an extremely efficient 49 percent from the floor and 45 percent from the three-point line.

ROTY?

Fontecchio was the last Jazzman competing at EuroBasket after Lauri Markkanen and Finland were eliminated by Spain on Tuesday in the round of eight.

so I guess he'll be in town soon too?

[Xiao Yao You]

https://kslsports.com/492550/danny-a...all-from-jazz/

SALT LAKE CITY – One day after his unfeigned press conference on why the Utah Jazz traded two All-Stars this summer, Danny Ainge said he’s anticipating “more exciting basketball” from the team this season.

losing exciting!

“I don’t anticipate that our team is going to win as many games as we’d won,” Ainge admitted, “but I believe that it’s going to be more entertaining and more exciting basketball.”

they had the number one offense in the league. More exciting and entertaining than that?

“[We have two] first-round picks, one a lottery pick, we have a kid in [Lauri] Markkanen who’s had a fantastic summer this summer and just had 43 points and a big win, Talen Horton-Tucker — dynamic 21-year-old player,” Ainge said. “I think there’s a lot to be excited about. I’m excited about this team.”

talen shooting less than 30% from 3 should be exciting!

[Xiao Yao You]

https://kslsports.com/492540/sexton-...ome-with-jazz/

Having spent four seasons at Kansas and being named the NCAA Tournament Most Outstanding Player after leading the Jayhawks to the national title, Agbaji likely carries the biggest expectations of any Jazz rookie into training camp.

Long term sure. Right now Simone is probably one of the top rookies in the league

Whereas in Cleveland Agbaji may have struggled to see the floor on a team that is likely to compete for the playoffs, the rookie will get plenty of playing time to develop his game for the Jazz this season.

not seeing it currently

[Xiao Yao You]

https://kslsports.com/492488/jazz-fo...y-tops-serbia/

[Xiao Yao You]

https://www.deseret.com/2022/9/14/23...novan-mitchell

“It’s not going to be like it was in Boston for Danny,” the league source told Heavy. “He really hit on some of those picks he got, but, remember, they also got (Al) Horford and (Gordon) Hayward to come there as free agents. I know Hayward didn’t work out like they wanted; that injury was tough. But those guys were top free agents. I think Danny’s going to find it harder to attract big time free agents in Utah.”

hit on the picks and worry about that later

[Xiao Yao You]

https://www.deseret.com/2022/9/14/23...ild-in-a-hurry

It seemed like it was going to work and the Jazz were clicking. It really came together in the Orlando bubble and looked like the Jazz could be in for a deep playoff run before they blew a 3-1 series lead to the Denver Nuggets in the opening round of the 2020 playoffs.

with COTM making no adjustments. He should have been gone. We have no idea what another coach and some tweeks to the roster might have done

The front office surveyed the landscape and didn’t overreact. It was the first season that this iteration of the Jazz had been together, they were missing Bogdanovic in the playoffs after he had surgery to repair a ligament in his wrist and it was all during the infamous pandemic season — nothing about it was normal.

still not sure they weren't better without Bojan

There was something there though, so the Jazz ran it back. They re-signed Clarkson, gave max extensions to Gobert and Mitchell, brought Derrick Favors back into the fold and went after it all again.

right there they had a chance. Sign a starting 4 instead of a backup center and let Clarkson go

But misfortune struck when injuries to Conley and Mitchell hampered the team in the postseason and the Los Angeles Clippers exposed the Jazz’s weaknesses.

Mitchell forcing his way on to the floor over a team doctor's advice. That right there tells you what a big part of the issues were

Not only was the spirit of the players heavily damaged by that loss, but it seemed that head coach Quin Snyder didn’t take the loss very well either.

That's on him considering he once again refused to make any adjustments as Lue tried everything

The 2021-22 season, was entered with tempered hope. The Jazz still wanted to contend, but the core of Mitchell and Gobert had continually got the Jazz to the playoffs only for them to eventually lose steam and get bounced in one of the first two rounds. There wasn’t enough that was different, there wasn’t enough that was improved and the Jazz’s options were limited.

they've had lots of options. They chose badly from the time Gobert first emerged

While it feels like it was just yesterday the Jazz were riding a high at the top of the league, it also feels like it’s been ages since they had a real shot of contending for a title. The hope is that the next shot is not too far down the road and that the journey ends with a better result.

I think they had a shot at the Bucks. They matched up well with them. COTM and Mitchell's selfishness didn't give them that chance

[Xiao Yao You]

https://www.slcdunk.com/2022/9/14/23...of-danny-ainge

The first interesting point was that Donovan Mitchell was apparently “shocked” by the Royce O’Neale trade and mentions how he was his best friend. That right there makes it clear that Danny Ainge and the Utah Jazz were all in on the rebuild at that point. The days of making signings like they did for Eric Paschall were over.

need young vets like him. Him and Forrest would have been good to have around

Which, by the way, we should be surprised at from recent comments by Ainge, but we’ll get to those in a second. It was at this point that I’m sure Donovan Mitchell knew that Danny Ainge and company were doing what was best for the Jazz. It was the right thing too, this Jazz team had bent over backwards to make things work for Donovan Mitchell and in the end it wasn’t good enough. If we’re being honest, it was never going to be good enough. Mitchell obviously had his sights set on other places, mainly New York, and he all but confirms it in this interview.

trade him for vets. Hire a new coach. Dump Clarkson. Get a starting 4. One of the best teams in the league

So Ainge got to work. What we were told was that Quin Snyder resigned and the Jazz “couldn’t get him to sign an extension.” Sure, we’ll play along with that little story. But we’re going to give Ainge credit for the transition from Snyder to Will Hardy. Remember Will Hardy? Feels like ages ago he was brought on.

Not sure what happened there but the fact that COTM still had a job two seasons after the bubble fiasco was a joke! Can't give Ainge any credit for that

He then traded Royce O’Neale for a 1st round pick from Brooklyn. After that he made the Rudy Gobert trade. Is that what we’ll call it? It needs a name because it was such a monumental haul it put every move in the league at a standstill. The aftershocks were so strong and longlasting it played a big part in keeping Mitchell from an easy ride to New York.

and the Jazz likely lose that trade

It’s absolutely worth a listen. Clarkson mentions how it hurt what happened with the trade and that “maybe one of the sides gave up.” I’m not quite sure if he’s talking about the Jazz or one of the players, but it’s a reminder that Clarkson is a great teammate and he truly cared about this Jazz team.

he cares so much he completely ignores them when the ball is in his hands!

Whatever happens this summer with Clarkson, he’s been a great ambassador for the team and if he’s part of the rebuild, that’s fantastic. If not, you can be he’ll have Jazz fans rooting for him wherever he ends up.

I'm just rooting that he's gone in the next week and half along with the other vets

[Xiao Yao You]

https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat...ordan-clarkson

It’s a little surprising that all three of them have made it this far into September without being traded yet, honestly. It might just be a matter of time, or when Ainge and Zanik can work out the best possible deals and continue to get as much draft capital as possible. Ainge talked a little bit yesterday about the 2023 draft class, and actually mentioned 2024 being “even better”. The Jazz have 19 players on roster right now, which obviously will need to be trimmed down in some way before the season begins. If you like trades and draft picks, this has been your summer!

2024 is even better!

I did a minutes analysis based on pure speculation and what I found is that the Jazz are currently sitting at 10 players on the roster listed as guard. There are 144 potential minutes available for the 1-3 with 3 guys who can't play guard likely to share some of those minutes at the 3 (Sim1 is primarily a 3 while Vando and Lauri can both play either the 3 or 4)

I feel like it's safe to assume that Sexton is going to get significant minutes, as many as 30 mpg, if Conley, Beasley and JC remain in Utah they're all likely to get 20+ mpg and between Sim1, Vando and Lauri at least half of the minutes at the 3 will be taken. Leaving roughly 30 minutes per night to spread between Agbaji, THT, NAW, Butler, Bolmaro and JJ.

So in answer to your question, keeping JC primarily takes minutes from those 6 players.

Agbaji and Bolmaro can start in the Gleague but Clarkson, Bojan, Conley and Gay need to be gone in the next week and a half!

I’m taking that as he has offers set up that set the floor of what they can get back. Bet he’s waiting for teams to get into training camp and hoping another team may get more desperate if their roster didn’t improve the way they hoped. That would then allow Danny to lever the asking price higher. If it doesn’t materialize, he can go back to his previous offer.

Take the best offers you can before camp. What you lose in a trade is gained by the young guys getting all the reps

Hearing Ainge talk about how the 2024 draft is better than 2023, I think he means depth wise. No player in 2024 is as hyped as Scoot and Wemby. But there is this real chance that the age restriction gets lowered and you get more depth than a usual draft. So it almost seems like Ainge isn't even thinking about the #1 or 2 pick.

the age limit might be why he's saying it's better. 2023 is supposed to be very deep

2. the nba scouting was bad at identifying high school talent but was too afraid to miss out on then next kobe or whoever

they didn't like scouting high schools and it was a lot easier to judge a guy that played a year of college than beat up on high school talent. One and done was bad for basketball

NIL deals may make the college route more attractive for top stars.

probably not for the top guys but it should certainly have a huge affect on things. If you're only going pro for the money you can stay in college now

I think the holdup for the trades isn't the price or protection, but the draft year. If they think 2024 is going to be equal or better than 2023 then they should be targeting at least 1 guaranteed pick 2024 pick

Shouldn't matter. Get the picks when you can. Can always trade them for a pick in another year. Most of the picks won't end up on the Jazz

As long as we're bad enough to not send OKC a pick in 2024 (and maybe 2025). Even better if MIN and CLE are even worse than UTA.

yeah right!

[Xiao Yao You]

https://www.slcdunk.com/2022/9/13/23...r-ochai-agbaji

Spence asks Tony to guess which current Jazz player will have the longest tenure:

"Ochai Agbaji. If the Jazz had a 1RP, he would of been at or near the top of their draft board. The front office really really liked him and he's the type of 2 way athletic wing they haven't had"

— Dunzo (@Dunzod) September 9, 2022

that would be the smart guess anyway. Lottery pick from this year. He's bigger than Mitchell. Sounds like he's a better playmaker. Shot better. Got to play better D! They could end up with two guards at least better than Mitchell

Bane measured at 6’-5” height, 6’-4” wingspan, 216 lbs coming into the draft. He had better and more consistent high school and collegiate shooting numbers than Ochai Agbaji.

6'4 wingspan tells me he was never on the Wizard's radar especially since they needed a center and got one and he will likely be starting at the 5 this year. That's why you drafted him

It’s an excellent sign that the Utah Jazz front office and coaching staff are high on Agbaji. He profiles to start some guys and be a staple of the bench rotation during various points of the season.

he should start for the Stars. Too many young vets ahead of him

Initially, we should expect Jared Butler and Ochai Agbaji to lead the 2nd unit but should things unfold favorably in production and opportunity, Ochai could be starting often to exclusively by season’s end.

look at the roster. Why would we expect that? They have a Gleague team for a reason

[Xiao Yao You]

https://thejnotes.com/2022/09/14/sta...ter-utah-jazz/

Contrary to popular belief, the Utah Jazz did much better when they sent Donovan Mitchell to the Cleveland Cavaliers than when they sent Rudy Gobert to the Timberwolves. Yes, the package of picks the Wolves sent over was astronomical, and the Jazz got a decent cast of role players for Rudy, but the Cavs overpaid out the wazoo for the three-time All-Star.

it's not even close. The Jazz likely will not get anyone as good as Gobert from the Wolves trade. They already have one guy comparable to Mitchell making 60 million less and two years younger.

Not only did the Jazz get three picks and two swaps, but they also got more than half of a starting lineup. Lauri Markannen, Ochai Agbaji, and Collin Sexton will all be starters for the Jazz next year, and for several years. All of those players are 25 and below, and they are among the best new additions to the Jazz roster.

Ochai will start for the Stars anyway

Agbaji was the 14th overall pick and is the best rookie on the Jazz roster. He is a day one starter, as are Markannen and Sexton, who is a fringe All-Star. With their haul of picks, the Jazz should be able to find the next franchise icon in the coming seasons, maybe as soon as next season.

The Italian is the best rookie. Hard to imagine it otherwise. Fringe all stars!

This is not to say that the Minnesota deal was bad, but come on. Yes, the Jazz got four picks, but are any of the players they added any good? Vanderbilt was a fringe starter last year who couldn’t average double-digit points, Walker Kessler would be really, really good…if this was 1980, and Malik Beasley, Talen Horton-Tucker, and Stanley Johnson were all conciliatory pieces. Don’t even get me started on Leandro Bolmaro, who might not even see the court.

Kessler might be the next Gobert? Bolmaro should be ahead of your starter until proven otherwise. More pro experience, bigger and younger. Just need to fix his shot

[Xiao Yao You]

https://thejnotes.com/2022/09/13/4-p...an-bogdanovic/

The Utah Jazz seem set on clearing house, getting younger, and trading away any established players with any sort of value. They did it with Patrick Beverly, and appear to be getting ready to send Jordan Clarkson to a contender. While Clarkson probably has the highest value of anyone on the roster, Bojan Bogdanovic is also drawing some attention around the league.

Clarkson sucks. Glad I'm the only one that seems to think so!

With nearly every contending team wanting a piece of Bojan, the Jazz get to pick and chose who they trade with. Despite being 33 years old, Bojan is still in his prime and can provide meaningful minutes and efficient scoring as a secondary option, or he could come off the bench and average big numbers.

they get to take the best offer. Not much picking and choosing

Between OG Anunoby and Scottie Barnes, I don’t think Bojan would crack the starting five. That’s okay since Toronto would want him with the second unit anyway.

he should have been on the bench with the Jazz. It was one of their problems

This is the first trade I have ever proposed that results in the Jazz losing a pick. By 2025, the Wolves should still be quite good, so this pick will be in the back half of the first round. In return, the Jazz get a 23-year-old who averaged 18.3 points last year as the starting wing for Toronto.

doubt Danny is giving up a pick to get rid of an expiring contract

The Jazz end up with Crowder, who would be a one-year rental before he signs with another contender, and Dario Saric, who is 27 but coming off a torn ACL. This would be a gamble for both teams. On one hand, the Suns are giving up a key role player who can do a bit of everything for a pure scorer, and the Jazz are basically trading Bojan for Saric.

no

The Lakers get a backup point guard for Patrick Beverly who can shoot and a traditional wing. The Jazz get one year of a horrible contract, two solid picks, and a conciliatory second-rounder this year.

Conley backing up Beverley!

Take your pick of a young player. I think it’s fair for Utah to get a young player for Bojan, and a supplemental pick for taking Fournier’s awful contract. Detroit will be a fringe lottery team next year, so that gives Utah a pick in the 10-15 range next season, bringing their total to five in the first round of 2023.

where do you come up with this shit. An expiring contract for 3 years of Fournier!

[Xiao Yao You]

https://thejnotes.com/2022/09/14/sta...ter-utah-jazz/

The fact that Danny Ainge and the rest of the Utah Jazz front office got the Minnesota Timberwolves to pony up as much as they did is highway robbery and will continue to benefit the team going forward. To be clear, the Utah Jazz got a great haul for Mitchell, but it seems that they may have turned down a better proposal from the New York Knicks to take the Cleveland Cavaliers’ offer.

The Mitchell trade was always going to be better. They likely won't get the 3rd best player in franchise history fro Gobert. I think they could end up with several players better than Mitchell or at least comparable out of that trade. Already have a couple

Is Collin Sexton better than RJ Barett in the long term? Maybe not, but he was the centerpiece of the Cavs’ offer, along with, of course, three unprotected future firsts and two pick swaps. Those are valuable assets. However, a team can really only use but so many picks, and the Jazz got plenty from offloading Gobert.

they will use them all certainly!

Gobert was also harder to move considering he makes $38 million next season, $8 million more than Mitchell, and he’s 30 whereas Mitchell’s 26. Finding a taker wasn’t a given, especially with how much they’d have to give up to match salaries, but Minnesota was apparently that desperate. I argue that the Mitchell trade was closer to fair value for a three-time All-Star, based on the Dejounte Murray trade from earlier this summer.

easier to move because he makes the Wolves one of the top teams in the league as he would for almost every franchise. That is the impact that the guy has. We saw it when he was surrounded by guys not even in the league anymore

Mitchell is better than Murray, and the Jazz received three additional assets as a result. Meanwhile, the Timberwolves hustled backward by overpaying for a player who had less future value. No one believes that Gobert’s best basketball is ahead of him, yet the value that the Jazz received for him seemed to indicate otherwise.

if the Spurs would have traded the Jazz Murray for Mitchell before Gobert was traded I'd have jumped on it! I'd take him any day. Playing both ends of the court is a thing! Gobert had his best year. He will peak soon. Hasn't happened yet though. Can't wait to see what he does on the most talented team he's been on by far. He won't have to get every rebound. If he leaves the rim he has another 7 footer there not O'Neale. Has a pg that will pass him the ball

Additionally, who gives up four future first-round picks, two pick swaps, and three valuable or potentially valuable players, anyway? Minnesota already had an All-Star center but acquired Gobert, which ensures that they’ll play an outdated two-big-man lineup for the next few seasons.

2 of the best. Not just any two bigs

I'm tired of hearing that jazz turned down a better deal. I remember reading before that the nicks were refusing to give up more than 2 picks in deal didn't want to give up rj Barrett and fact is they pretty much removed him when they signed Barrett to that exstention plus they are paying him twice as much as the jazz are paying Sexton to then throw in what the claim is that they supposedly turned down that kind of deal wouldn't have been possible without the jazz giving up more themselves thanks to that exstention which came before the Cleveland trade. These New York people are claiming they had better deal are just trying to escape criticism they are facing that they messed up. They don't have to prove anything. I sincerely doubt that there offer was that good especially after they signed Barrett to that exstention. There's no reason for Jazz to care about anything other than best deal. Would New York have made better offer sure they do have more picks but Charles Barkley reported he heard New York felt ainge was trying to rip them off demanding too much for Mitchell

Knicks, Jazz and Wolves win. Cavs lose even though they should be better this year. They have a ceiling. Small backcourt. A superstar that isn't really one

[Xiao Yao You]

https://behindthebuckpass.com/2022/0...rdan-clarkson/

can't imagine there are any pros. The cons are that he sucks!

It is also not controversial to say that the Bucks could use an upgrade at the backup point guard position after George Hill’s lackluster 2021-22 campaign. Although Clarkson is more of a combo guard and not a traditional point guard like Hill, he would fit the billing as an upgrade. Clarkson is capable of handling the basketball and putting plenty of points on the board off the bench, which would help the Bucks out tremendously.

Hill is a combo guard and a player. Clarkson sucks!

Furthermore, the Bucks would also likely have to give up George Hill and Grayson Allen to match Clarkson’s $13.3 million contract for next season. While trading Hill would be reasonable, Allen did just have the best season of his NBA career and has proven to be a perfect fit with the Bucks. Due to his strong play last season, some may be reluctant to include moving Allen, who was a full-time starter for the Bucks until the postseason. The addition of a first round pick in that proposal makes a trade even more questionable.

don't want either!

The difficult aspect of any Clarkson trade is trying to decipher an adequate trade package for both sides. The most logical offer would seemingly be Grayson Allen, George Hill, and possibly a second round pick or two, but it might not be that easy. If the Jazz do indeed want a first rounder, that may complicate things. The Bucks are also high on Allen, so they may be reluctant to move him. Could Jordan Nwora somehow fit into this situation? The forward is still a restricted free agent, and as the Jazz look to stock up on young talent, the 24-year-old could be viewed as a desirable piece in a sign-and-trade. However, that is just speculation. If the Bucks can get Clarkson without giving up the farm, they absolutely should pursue the opportunity.

not sure they need another 24 year old guard at this point!

[Xiao Yao You]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...xhibit-10-Deal

A Star!