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  1. #1
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    Default Lebron joins a franchise and goes 1/4.. then he leaves the team in shambles

    1/4 in LA and Cleveland... and only a miracle prevented 1/4 in Miami (Ray Allen miracle)

    Otoh, the best organic winners win MANY chips because they developed great chemistry and brand of ball - they didn't just form an all-star team like Lebron (talent-based winning).

    Lebron's talent-based winning gets favorite status in Year 1 (11', 15'), but it's based on talent instead of actually being a good team (chemistry and brand of ball) - the talent-based approach goes 1/4 and leaves the team in shambles..

    So Lebron is a talent-based winner that never learned how to WIN (organic).

    You think this is bullshit?.. Okay, well surely there are many rookie bums that developed into viable producers on his watch (teammate development).. Surely his teams are viewed as smart teams that play the "right way" like the Warriors and Spurs, aka high team assists (brand of ball).. Surely his team's aren't low assist teams that get massively out-assisted in the Finals.. Surely he has a great record of teammates like Ingram, Hughes or Bosh playing to capacity alongside him (teammate fits, chemistry)...

    So again, his frontcourt ball-dominant skillset has the worst teammate development, teammate fits, chemistry and brand of ball, so he can't win organically and must be a talent-based winner (team-hopper... all-star team strategy)... GM's must be willing to accept 1 chip and then the team is in shambles - this talent-based approach contrasts with the best organic winners, who win MANY chips by developing the best brand of ball and chemistry, which ultimately yields the highest team ceilings (Finals records).

    The worst part about Lebron's talent-based approach is that the lack of brand and chemistry requires more TALENT - he can't win with secondary producers at sidekick like Wiggins or Pippen that average far less in the Finals - he needs all-time scorers and elite 1st options at sidekick like Wade, AD or Kyrie to nearly match his scoring in the Finals.
    Last edited by 3ba11; 07-03-2022 at 11:17 PM.

  2. #2
    ISH jizzrag slayer Axe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron joins a franchise and goes 1/4.. then he leaves the team in shambles

    No pip?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Lebron joins a franchise and goes 1/4.. then he leaves the team in shambles

    1-4 > 1-9

  4. #4
    2nd Greatest Player Lebron23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron joins a franchise and goes 1/4.. then he leaves the team in shambles

    Jordan failed to led the Wizards in the playoffs.

  5. #5
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 1987_Lakers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron joins a franchise and goes 1/4.. then he leaves the team in shambles

    OP has destroyed MJ's legacy without even knowing it.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Lebron joins a franchise and goes 1/4.. then he leaves the team in shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by Lebron23 View Post
    Jordan failed to led the Wizards in the playoffs.

    The 2002 Wizards were expected to win 18 more games than the prior year with MJ in the fold - they met this expectation of 37 wins (19 the prior year)

    So 38-year MJ met expectation, while 37-year Lebron turned the preseason favorite into one of the worst teams in the league - goat underachievement - the most empty 30 ppg ever - pure stat-padding over winning.. the worst teammate fits ever.. low IQ

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Lebron joins a franchise and goes 1/4.. then he leaves the team in shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by 1987_Lakers View Post
    OP has destroyed MJ's legacy without even knowing it.

    All the polls show MJ still #1 despite not playing in his prime for 25 years - he's still the best 25 years later - that's how great he was - you simply lack the basketball understanding to appreciate how great he was

    He will be the goat for another 50 years, and maybe even 100 or more.. 6/6 was a result of his goat skillset that allowed the best brand of ball and teammate fits..... At the highest individual scoring rates ever!!.. Led Wiggins to 6 chips while defeating maximum defensive attention (carrying the scoring load in Finals)

  8. #8
    9x All Defensive 1st And1AllDay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron joins a franchise and goes 1/4.. then he leaves the team in shambles

    1-9

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Lebron joins a franchise and goes 1/4.. then he leaves the team in shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by And1AllDay View Post
    1-9

    No one cares what happens in the first couple years of a player's career, just like no one cares that Curry, Lebron, Giannis and Durant were lottery in their first few years.

    The only thing that matters is what happened in your prime and with good teams... No one has a better record in their prime (6 titles) and no one lost less with good teams - only Jordan never lost with a 1 or 2 seed, or with an all-star teammate (except the migraine and baseball years).

    And Jordan has goat carry-jobs from 88-90', while ultimately carrying Wiggins to 6 rings

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Lebron joins a franchise and goes 1/4.. then he leaves the team in shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ba11 View Post
    No one cares what happens in the first couple years of a player's career, just like no one cares that Curry, Lebron, Giannis and Durant were lottery in their first few years.

    The only thing that matters is what happened in your prime and with good teams... No one has a better record in their prime (6 titles) and no one lost less with good teams - only Jordan never lost with a 1 or 2 seed, or with an all-star teammate (except the migraine and baseball years).
    good point. mj can't elevate a sub-par cast to a top 2 seed. he needs everything perfectly in place to contend.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Lebron joins a franchise and goes 1/4.. then he leaves the team in shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny32 View Post
    good point. mj can't elevate a sub-par cast to a top 2 seed. he needs everything perfectly in place to contend.

    The 09' Cavs had the 3rd-ranked defense compared to 19th for the 90' Bulls, while Mo was superior to Pippen offensively across the board (scoring, efficiency, PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48).

    So Lebron had a better team on both sides of the ball, yet Jordan still beat him to titles - Jordan won the next year in 91', while Lebron lost again in 10' after adding Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite.. Then he lost again in 2011 with a super-team this time.. So he's just a loser that was coddled into winning a chip here and there... 4 in 20 years isn't a top 10 winning frequency and it's actually embarrassing.

    Btw, Jordan's best teammate peaked at about 20 ppg (Wiggins-caliber), so all his rings were carry-jobs

    Everyone in history needed teammates to match or lead in scoring for entire playoff runs, while MJ averaged 10-30 more than Pippen in every SERIES (except 2 when he averaged 8 and 4 more).. In addition to carrying the scoring load, Jordan averaged more assists than Pippen for their Finals career, playoff career, and regular season career, while getting more DPOY votes every year (except 96/97)

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Lebron joins a franchise and goes 1/4.. then he leaves the team in shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ba11 View Post
    good point. mj can't elevate a sub-par cast to a top 2 seed. he needs everything perfectly in place to contend.
    fax

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Lebron joins a franchise and goes 1/4.. then he leaves the team in shambles

    .
    09' Mo Will... 17.2 PER... 2.3 BPM... 3.1 VORP... 0.165 WS/48
    90' Pippen.... 16.3 PER... 1.8 BPM... 3.0 VORP... 0.087 WS/48

    09' Mo Will... 17.8.. 3.4.. 4.1.. 59% ts... 115 ortg... 23.4 usage
    90' Pippen.... 16.5.. 6.7.. 5.4.. 53% ts... 103 ortg... 21.0 usage


    09' Cavs....... #3 defense
    90' Bulls..... #19 defense



    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny32 View Post
    fax

    The 09' Cavs had a far better defense than the 90' Bulls and far better offensive help

    So Lebron had a much better team on both sides of the ball, yet Jordan still beat him to titles - Jordan carried a shittier team (worse defense and offense) to titles
    Last edited by 3ba11; 07-04-2022 at 12:03 AM.

  14. #14
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 1987_Lakers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lebron joins a franchise and goes 1/4.. then he leaves the team in shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ba11 View Post
    The 09' Cavs had a far better defense than the 90' Bulls and far better offensive help

    So Lebron had a much better team on both sides of the ball, yet Jordan still beat him to titles - Jordan carried a shittier team (worse defense and offense) to titles
    Bulls playoff team without MJ

    Cavs lottery without LeBron

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Lebron joins a franchise and goes 1/4.. then he leaves the team in shambles

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny32 View Post
    good point. mj can't elevate a sub-par cast to a top 2 seed. he needs everything perfectly in place to contend.
    example

    lebron at 23 yrs old carried the cavs to a top 2 seed and the finals with hughes as his second option.
    jordone carried duh wizards to the lottery with hughes as his second option.

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