“Professionally accept what ethically I hate so in all of my work…..

[Kblaze8855]

….you see me wrestling with faith”


A Lupe Fiasco line which has me thinking as I sit here waiting for my Jimmy John’s order.


Do you think players who play like bitches and flop all over the place and try to draw fouls as often as they try to honestly make the ball go in the basket actually hate it but do it because they have to?

And does it being effective make it those players intelligent to do it more than weak to resort to it?

Im reminded of an nfl player who told a story about how much work Ed Reed put in to recognize and attempt to pick off a single Tom Brady pass. Said it took hours of analysis and prep on where to stand and how to bait the throw and break on it just right. And in the game it all comes together and he picks it off and fans will never understand the emotional outburst from players making one play because they don’t understand the prep. It was about fans and the league not liking all the taunting and all that.

I don’t remember the play being complained about but it was some big decisive hit on a key play and dude got flagged for the celebration and the players were in disbelief they couldn’t show emotion when fans and the league just see a big possibly dangerous hit on their guy and you looking like a douchebag after it.

He explained it’s not about the hit. You accept that you might have to hurt someone but that doesn’t mean you set out to do it. You accept its part of your job even if it’s wrong to hurt people.

Even though you can almost never get anyone to acknowledge being a flopper or much less admit they feel shame for it I have to imagine it’s in there somewhere being justified internally as a professional necessity.

My question for you….

You are in a playoff game. Down 2 in the 4th. Dude brushed you a bit but not enough to really shake you. The ref has a bad angle and you know you can flop to get a call.

Are you morally opposed to doing it?

Im not talking one of those “This ***** has to be stopped…” despicable flops like:










….that will live in infamy. I’m talking a regular ol up the street run of the mill flop for attention on an iffy call.

Are you willing to flop?

Would your flopping extend beyond the accepted weight on your heels let him knock you over standard charge drawing flop?

Would you straight Marcus Smart/Harden/Lebron it for your team if it were effective?

I just wanna see who has an explanation I’d buy because frankly…I think almost all of you would be on some dastardly shit if it helps even though we complain when players do it.


I honestly don’t think I could be a flopper but I also acknowledge I don’t know what it’s like being in that position with those stakes. You don’t flop like that where I’m from playing for fun or even a rivalry. Just not how the game is played. But if it’s work? Eh. I guess it’s not easy to say for sure I just feel like I wouldn’t.


What do you hate to see players do but can admit you’d do in their position?


Team hop to win?

Take massive contracts on bad teams?

Flop?

Take load management days while healthy?

Demand a trade with 3-4 years on your contract?

Refuse to go to the team that drafted you forcing a trade they don’t want?

Hard fouls on a player who gets hot?

Where do you draw the line personally on what you would accept of yourself and not be ashamed?

Is there a line?

Could you feel personal shame over your conduct in basketball?

Would any of that make you feel like a bad human?

[Kblaze8855]

Damn that came out longer than I thought. This ****ing sandwich still hasn’t arrived yet. Jimmy John’s used to show up in 15 minutes.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I wouldn't go as far as being a dirty player that might hurt someone but yeah I'd flop. The opponents are all flipping so if you don't you're at a disadvantage. Until the league figures or some rules and penalties to make it go away we will always have floppers everywhere.

[iamgine]

I think flopping usually starts as a way to fight injustice. i.e Shaq gets hacked so much but he didn't get many of the calls. Maybe if he'd have flopped a bit, he'd get some of those calls.

[Kblaze8855]

I wouldn't go as far as being a dirty player that might hurt someone but yeah I'd flop. The opponents are all flipping so if you don't you're at a disadvantage. Until the league figures or some rules and penalties to make it go away we will always have floppers everywhere.

The Bonds defense I see.

Supposed penalties against something the league doesn’t actually investigate while it’s players make clean ones look bad.

Nba actually reviews plays for flops at times though. Baseball didn’t even test till like 04.

[PeroAntic]

I wouldn't go as far as being a dirty player that might hurt someone but yeah I'd flop. The opponents are all flipping so if you don't you're at a disadvantage. Until the league figures or some rules and penalties to make it go away we will always have floppers everywhere.

This is a race to the bottom kind of logic. I dont flop and I never would no matter the context or justification.

Out of kblaze's list, i would only take load management while healthy. Playing 82 games per season is too much, you need some rest and enjoy life.

[Real Men Wear Green]

This is a race to the bottom kind of logic. I dont flop and I never would no matter the context or justification.

Out of kblaze's list, i would only take load management while healthy. Playing 82 games per season is too much, you need some rest and enjoy life.

You don't flop but you're not in the NBA . Someone that flops in a pick up game is just an idiot. There's no ref to fool. In a rec league there is sort of a point but there really isn't much at stake. NBA is a billion dollar business so everyone has flippers in their team. How many great defenders under 6'5 don't flop? When it comes to guys that mainly play because of their defense the flopping is rampant. You will find more guys like that so flop than don't. And in the other end you have guys like Embiid and Harden that are just as bad. Lebron James should arguably never be knocked to the ground by anyone. It's become an integral part of the game. I bet it even gets coached. It's only going away with some major rule change

[PeroAntic]

You don't flop but you're not in the NBA . Someone that flops in a pick up game is just an idiot. There's no ref to fool. In a rec league there is sort of a point but there really isn't much at stake. NBA is a billion dollar business so everyone has flippers in their team. How many great defenders under 6'5 don't flop? When it comes to guys that mainly play because of their defense the flopping is rampant. You will find more guys like that so flop than don't. And in the other end you have guys like Embiid and Harden that are just as bad. Lebron James should arguably never be knocked to the ground by anyone. It's become an integral part of the game. I bet it even gets coached. It's only going away with some major rule change

I know guys who flop even in pickup games. He calls a foul, you can argue about it but whats the point. Dude uses the flop as an argument there was a foul.

The reason its done even in pickup games is because its being legitimized by discourses like this. That at some level it is acceptable. If we accept that premise, then why not extend it to everywhere?

Flopping its plain cheating and under no conditions is it justifyable. Its your own integrity and that of the game which is at stake.

[Kblaze8855]

This is a race to the bottom kind of logic. I dont flop and I never would no matter the context or justification.

Out of kblaze's list, i would only take load management while healthy. Playing 82 games per season is too much, you need some rest and enjoy life.

I think I’d feel worse not playing when healthy than leaving my job/team for another company.

Ive left jobs. I’ve decided I’d work where I felt like. It’s not a moral issue to me.


Knowing a kid and his family saved up for tonight just to see me and I’m scheduled to play and feeling great and I just ruin their experience?

Id feel so bad. I’d end up out there signing autographs for an hour and apologizing.

[Sulico]

I love players who flop to show the contact that's already there. It shows they are willing to do anything in their power to win.

Flopping to create something out of nothing, like on your gif or like CP3 likes to do is different story though.

[Shogon]

To answer the question from the OP, no, I wouldn't do it. It's disgusting. It's lying. It's cheating. I don't cheat to win. What the **** is the point in competing if you're going to cheat? You're just trying to get the W, but what the **** does a W actually mean if you had to cheat to get it? Nothing. Anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves or to us or both.

You get the win... you get the trophy... whatever... if you have ANY self reflection whatsoever you know deep down you cheated to win, and you'll know you probably don't deserve that win.

I wouldn't go as far as being a dirty player that might hurt someone but yeah I'd flop. The opponents are all flipping so if you don't you're at a disadvantage. Until the league figures or some rules and penalties to make it go away we will always have floppers everywhere.

The NBA has to hand out ejections and suspensions for it. Fines aren't going to work, even if they aggressively pursue reviewing footage and fining. Anyone think players really care about multiple thousand dollar fines when they're making tens of millions? Maybe some of them do, to an extent, maybe... but the ones that are inclined towards this behavior are absolutely going to do that shit during a playoff or Finals game if they can get away with it and they think it will help them win.

lol.

If they're caught in real time, the play gets reviewed to confirm, they get ejected and it's considered a flagrant 2 level penalty. If they're caught retroactively on film, at least a 1 game suspension and the following game starts with a flagrant 2 level penalty.

The flopping will stop IMMEDIATELY.

Of course, the NBA is only going to take half measures on it until there is a head of the Player's Association that cares about this issue. And will there ever be a head of the PA that cares or wants flopping gone? Ever? That or it would take a massive uprising by the fans, and the fans don't seem to really care nearly that much.

[Kblaze8855]

I wouldn’t say all flops and exaggeration is the same as straight up cheating or an ethical problem. Some are. But it’s hard to set a clear rule against it. You could realistically say a player is trying to fall/flopping on a good 50% or more of charge calls. Not just allowing themselves to be knocked down. Falling in anticipation of the force required to do it. But you can’t really prove intent. I’d limit the punishment to the ones like this:






Classic “You know it when you see it” thing like porn vs nudity in art.

[Shogon]

Or how about people just stop anticipating contact and falling as a result? How about we just do away with weak fouls? And start handing out immediate technicals for whining?

Bring back physical play... but honestly I don't think fans want that. Most fans are happy with today's game including the flopping. The money says as much.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I know guys who flop even in pickup games. He calls a foul, you can argue about it but whats the point. Dude uses the flop as an argument there was a foul.

Streetball officiating is about the honor system. Guys I used to play with would call the foul in themselves. The clown you are talking about here wouldn't be tolerated. Guys might argue about a call but if we knew it was borderline we just agreed that the next such call would go the other way. But all that is beside the point as streetball isn't a billion dollar league where we are potentially setting up generational wealth.

The reason its done even in pickup games is because its being legitimized by discourses like this. That at some level it is acceptable. If we accept that premise, then why not extend it to everywhere?

No the reason it is done is because it works. James Harden dies not know or care about what you and I think about anything. He just wants two free throws. In reality the morality of it doesn't matter. What playoff team had no one that wasn't guilty of flopping at some point? How many great defenders under 6'5 can you think of that don't flop?

Flopping its plain cheating and under no conditions is it justifyable. Its your own integrity and that of the game which is at stake.

Which playoff team never flopped? You don't have to like it but it's part of the game.