This is why I think the Bulls were basically a "1-man team"...

[NBAGOAT]

89' Cartwright..... 12/7 and 0.5 block
10' Shaq.............. 12/7 and 1.5 block


Old Rodman was worse than 2010 Shaq because Rodman wasn't the starter in the 98' Playoffs, while Shaq would've started and been the best center the Bulls ever had (see above), while challenging Pippen for 2nd option on many nights..

In addition to the 98' Playoffs,, Rodman averaged 3/8 for the 97' Playoffs - Jordan co-lead the rebounds with 8 like Rodman... The bulls played 4 on 5 with Rodman, who wouldn't be playable for most other teams (including any of Lebron lineup because Lebron needs juggernaut scoring help and abnormal shooting help).

The reality is that Pippen was an above-average sidekick, while the remaining cast was among the worst in the league.






11' Terry destroys 93' or 98' Pippen across the board (see above), while Marion and Kidd were Pippen-like players..

Other guys like Peja, Barea, Stephenson, and Chandler were better versions of any of Jordan's teammates in similar roles...

you're overrating peja lol along with some other guys. He had a few good games vs the lakers and that's about it. also marion/kidd were not pippen like lol post their stats. Horace grant, kukoc, rodman etc are easily better than any mav after dirk/terry besides chandler

[3ba11]

you're overrating peja lol along with some other guys. He had a few good games vs the lakers and that's about it. also marion/kidd were not pippen like lol post their stats. Horace grant, kukoc, rodman etc are easily better than any mav after dirk/terry besides chandler

Rodman wasn't the starter in the 98' Playoffs, so that automatically makes him the 6th best on the Mavs (behind actual starters), while Horace was nowhere near perennial all-stars or HOF's like Kidd and Mation, or even Terry and Chandler, like you said.

Again, guys like Marion and Kidd played 3rd and 4th option roles but infact were Pippen-like players, while Chandler, Barea, Peja and Stephenson were deluxe versions of the Bulls' role players... And Terry destroyed 93' or 98' Pippen across the board (see the OP stats)

[3ba11]

3ball with his dumb logic is admitting that the 1990s bulls wouldn't have won nearly as many titles if they played in the 1980s.


As we saw what occurred when Jordan was a one-man team in the 1980s and it resulted in him getting owned by Zeke and Bird.

The 80's was a super-team era, so you had to be lucky enough to be on 1 of 2 super-teams until 89' - if Jordan was on one of the super-teams, he would've won every year.

The issue is that the Bulls weren't a super-team, so they obviously wouldn't fare as well against super-teams than they did against 90's teams.. But don't mispercieve - the 80's represented a luckfest to get on a super-team, while the 90's was an even playing field of optimal competitive environment (parity) that accurately showed the best player (MJ)

[8Ball]

Not even other Jordan stans sign off on 3ball posts anymore.


I see no one coming to 3ball's much needed defence.

[3ba11]

Not even other Jordan stans sign off on 3ball posts anymore.


I see no one coming to 3ball's much needed defence.

They consistently do here and there

Just enough to know that there's plenty of Jordan support

For example, posters signed off on my arguments against HoopsNY, which forced Hoops to do the same stats for Lebron and Kobe.. Not surprisingly, they too won much more when they shot less than 20 times - it turns out that these guys aren't robots, aka they shoot less when teammates are playing well.

Other Jordan fans have grown accustomed to these types of ragdollings by 3ball, so they leave me to it

[Round Mound]

[3ba11]

Agreed.. it's a shame how the numbers support what I'm saying and not your argument (see the OP)

[Axe]

That goes for most teams that lose their sidekick without replacement...

And that's the thing - Wiggins could've been replaced by tons of guys, just like Pippen...

Pippen and Wiggins are secondary producers with low peak capability (no gameplanning required).. So they're easily replaceable, unlike elite scorers that dominate the scouting report like AD, Wade or Kyrie.

Wiggins at least made the playoffs without a superstar. How many has curry gone to without klay thompson?

[TheMan]

3ball is a weird dude

[3ba11]

.

Wiggins at least made the playoffs without a superstar. How many has curry gone to without klay thompson?

Secondary producers like Klay, Wiggins or Pippen have low peak capability and therefore don't require game-planning (above), which forces the 1st option to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in the Finals).

So unlike all-time scorers and elite producers like AD, Wade or Kyrie, secondary producers like Klay, Wiggins or Pippen require a 1st option that can CARRY THE SCORING LOAD, which Lebron cannot do.. That's why he needs all-time scorers at sidekick that can nearly match his Finals scoring.

[SouBeachTalents]

Other interesting Shaq points.

[3ba11]

Other interesting Shaq points.

4 rings + scoring lead?

So Shaq was obviously trolling because Kareem already had 6 rings + scoring title... plus #3 rebounds

And Lebron is #1 in turnover

[3ba11]

.
Thread Cliffs:


Why does Lebron need elite scorers at sidekick and even 3rd option?

Why can't Lebron carry the scoring load in the Finals and therefore win with secondary producers like Wiggins or Pippen?

Essentially, why does Lebron need the most scoring help ever?...

It's because:

1) he lacks the elite jumpshooting skill needed to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals)

2) elite-scoring teammates are required to prevent the need for a ball-centric carry-job... i.e.at carry-job volumes, Lebron lacks lacks sufficient brand of ball to beat top teams (too ball-dominant)

[Sulico]

Did they play 2-on-2?
Why title says 1-man TEAM and then instead of whole team OP analyses 2 players?

[ShawkFactory]

2013 Playoffs

Lebron: 28.1 PER, .260 WS/48, 10.1 BPM, 3.4 VORP

Wade: 18.7 PER, .106 WS/48, 3.1 BPM, 1.0 VORP

ENORMOUS carry job.