The US blew up Russia's pipeline.

[Rolando]

Secretary of Defense Blinken says: "the sabotage of Russian Nord Stream gas pipeline was seen in Washington as a “tremendous opportunity”

Secretary Blinken also confirmed that the U.S. had now become “the leading supplier of [liquefied natural gas] to Europe.”

Wow! Putin blowing up his own pipeline and now this.

Are you all still on board with the mainstream media explanation?

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/ar...k--opportunity

[Rolando]

Former Polish minister of national defense tweeted: Thank You USA! With a nice picture of the gas bubbling up in the Baltic Sea.

https://www.reddit.com/r/poland/comm...olish_foreign/

Shall I continue?

[oldtimer28]

Ha ha ha.....Nope.

American here.

Just pointing out the obvious. I also am ahead of the media. Let's see what the official story is. Somehow, the powers-that-be have to convince us that Russia blew up its own pipeline which it has spent billions building. This also took a looooooong time to build. These explosions may make it PERMANENTLY unusable.

So you can consider me a bit skeptical.

Until I get a convincing alternative, the US is the main suspect. Nothing else makes sense. As soon as the European citizens realize what has been done to them. They just might be quite upset with the good ole USA.

Quick note to say thanks for your posts in this thread and other 'thinking' posts.

I keep expecting a nuclear event after the pipeline bombing...

[Jasper]

this is an undercover operation by the demo's to free the world .
When Trump becomes Prez again , all the nazi's will fall back into place...

[Patrick Chewing]

this is an undercover operation by the demo's to free the world .
When Trump becomes Prez again , all the nazi's will fall back into place...

Does this make sense to anyone??

[Off the Court]

Until I get a convincing alternative, the US is the main suspect. Nothing else makes sense.

How about this?

[bladefd]

How about this?

It doesn't fit his narrative, and 4chan Russian propaganda forum would not permit it.

[Rolando]

Quick note to say thanks for your posts in this thread and other 'thinking' posts.

I keep expecting a nuclear event after the pipeline bombing...

I appreciate it. I am enjoying throwing out some new and challenging ideas and points of view to this discussion. It really is quite remarkable how universal the "group think" is on this particular issue. In my own life, there's pretty much nobody in my social circle who's in agreement with me. On Facebook, there's only one friend of mine who seems to get it. Usually there's a percentage of progressive thinkers out there presenting a contrary opinion.......Not this time.

The propaganda machine has been really, really successful in putting forth a certain perspective of events.

Russia must be tempted to retaliate in some way. I don't think they can. Like I said in the other thread, this is a game of chess. Of course, the nuclear option is their ultimate card to play but things have not risen to that level of action yet. Russia has taken territory from Ukraine and taken in the ethnic Russians in that area.

Ukraine is pretty helpless without US support. I don't think the American public is up for sending any more billions over there so it could be that things cool down in Ukraine fairly soon. Russia will solidify it's new border and respond to the coming minor attacks and disruptions. Ukraine has to be careful that it doesn't collapse once the the western money runs dry. They will be very unstable, flooded with arms and a variety of factions looking to take power.

[Rolando]

How about this?

Ok. This is something we can definitely discuss. The guy has a level of intelligence and he's constructed a theory based on some selected facts supported by some big assumptions.

1. He assumes that, if the US did it, they could have done it in a clandestine way that was completely under the radar........So clearly it wasn't the US….. Well, perhaps there was no other way to kill this pipeline outside of blowing it up. Perhaps the cyber security of the Russia is capable of protecting it from such clever threats.

So the “operational design” base for this argument has assumptions that can be easily questioned.

2. He mentions early on that we should not consider who benefits from this but rather, focus on his “operational design” theory. Really?

3. He also specified that the operation created three effects. Ok. At LEAST three effects were created. Here’s an effect he didn’t mention: The Americans are now the biggest supplier of natural gas to Europe as a result of these explosions.

4. He falsely states that “all the effects of the blowing up of the pipelines are bad for the United States.”

5. He claims that the consequences of blowing up these pipes “are all good for Russia”. Really? They just lost all their negotiating leverage with the Europeans. That’s not some minor point to ignore. They also just lost 11 billion invested in building the pipeline. They lost all future profits as well.

6. He then goes on to say that, since Russia is losing the war badly, they are much more likely to do crazy things. Russia is losing the war? Really? They just expanded their territory. Ukraine has gotten smaller! FFS! Seriously. Look at the freaking value of the Ruble since the war started. Russia isn’t losing. Their economy is quite healthy. Putin is very popular at the moment.

Anyway, this guy has a certain level of intelligence but he has constructed an argument that is pretty easily countered.

[jstern]

Ok. This is something we can definitely discuss. The guy has a level of intelligence and he's constructed a theory based on some selected facts supported by some big assumptions.

1. He assumes that, if the US did it, they could have done it in a clandestine way that was completely under the radar........So clearly it wasn't the US….. Well, perhaps there was no other way to kill this pipeline outside of blowing it up. Perhaps the cyber security of the Russia is capable of protecting it from such clever threats.

So the “operational design” base for this argument has assumptions that can be easily questioned.

2. He mentions early on that we should not consider who benefits from this but rather, focus on his “operational design” theory. Really?

3. He also specified that the operation created three effects. Ok. At LEAST three effects were created. Here’s an effect he didn’t mention: The Americans are now the biggest supplier of natural gas to Europe as a result of these explosions.

4. He falsely states that “all the effects of the blowing up of the pipelines are bad for the United States.”

5. He claims that the consequences of blowing up these pipes “are all good for Russia”. Really? They just lost all their negotiating leverage with the Europeans. That’s not some minor point to ignore. They also just lost 11 billion invested in building the pipeline. They lost all future profits as well.

6. He then goes on to say that, since Russia is losing the war badly, they are much more likely to do crazy things. Russia is losing the war? Really? They just expanded their territory. Ukraine has gotten smaller! FFS! Seriously. Look at the freaking value of the Ruble since the war started. Russia isn’t losing. Their economy is quite healthy. Putin is very popular at the moment.

Anyway, this guy has a certain level of intelligence but he has constructed an argument that is pretty easily countered.

I saw the video earlier, and it was disgusting seeing all those people in the comment section eating it up. His whole argument is based on his theory, being presented as full proof. And at the core of it it's based on the fake CNN, MSNBC narrative that Putin is Hitler, that one day he just decided that he wanted to take over ALL of Ukraine, unexpectedly, shocking the whole world, AND that he's loosing and getting embarrassed in this conflict.

So basically, Putin is a suicidal maniac, so doesn't care about Russia, therefor he clearly is the one who blew up his own pipeline. Because "the allies are closing in." That's a very simplistic narrative that the Blade's and Off the Court of the world can easily gobble up.

And when you have such media coordination based on narrative, there's not much that can be done about it. The best thing to do is to make sure you don't get caught up in it.

And even the design of the video, reminds me of this Corona Doctor that just spread Pfizer propaganda. Has an expensive camera, great presentation, and a high status job. He puts a spoiler on the thumbnail, "Russia did it," and then tells you before he starts his explanation that spoiler, Russia did it. Most creators want to create suspense in a sense, to have people watch as long as possible. But the point of the video doesn't seem to be about getting engagement, but rather, "Russia did it."

[Off the Court]

As soon as the European citizens realize what has been done to them. They just might be quite upset with the good ole USA.

Here is Russia's motive. You said it yourself.

Biden said he would do it, that is Putin calling him out on it.

It's like if Putin said he will nuke Kyiv and then Ukraine nukes Kyiv themselves knowing it would be the end of Russia and they'd win the war.

It's a desperation move to get EU to turn on USA.

Which brings me to my own theory, Biden already said he'd do it so he had no reason to deny it. He's supplying billions of dollars and weapons to Ukraine and doesn't deny that so why would he deny this? If the US did do it they would have coordinationated it with most of Europe especially Germany.

Now, just like the guy in that video, I will say that they're is no evidence either way so it's all just theory. That's all anyone can do here is theorize.

His theories don't suggest the US couldn't have done it, they just suggest that the way it was carried out leans toward Russia.

[1987_Lakers]

Bruh, how are there people here actually arguing it wasn't the U.S.?

Common sense tells you they did it.

[Rolando]

I saw the video earlier, and it was disgusting seeing all those people in the comment section eating it up. His whole argument is based on his theory, being presented as full proof. And at the core of it it's based on the fake CNN, MSNBC narrative that Putin is Hitler, that one day he just decided that he wanted to take over ALL of Ukraine, unexpectedly, shocking the whole world, AND that he's loosing and getting embarrassed in this conflict.

So basically, Putin is a suicidal maniac, so doesn't care about Russia, therefor he clearly is the one who blew up his own pipeline. Because "the allies are closing in." That's a very simplistic narrative that the Blade's and Off the Court of the world can easily gobble up.

And when you have such media coordination based on narrative, there's not much that can be done about it. The best thing to do is to make sure you don't get caught up in it.

And even the design of the video, reminds me of this Corona Doctor that just spread Pfizer propaganda. Has an expensive camera, great presentation, and a high status job. He puts a spoiler on the thumbnail, "Russia did it," and then tells you before he starts his explanation that spoiler, Russia did it. Most creators want to create suspense in a sense, to have people watch as long as possible. But the point of the video doesn't seem to be about getting engagement, but rather, "Russia did it."

You nailed it. The media really pushed the idea that Russia's actions just came out of nowhere. Therefore, better not look into any recent history, especially the US backed coup in 2014.....Let's not bring that up.

Let's not mention the how the Ukrainian government is partly composed of an openly Nazi party.

Let's not mention the Minsk Agreement.

Let's not mention that Ukraine could have just remained neutral and avoided the whole war.

Let's pay no attention to what the Russian government actually gave as reasons and goals for the military action.
1. Ukraine cannot be allowed to join NATO. Russia and Putin had stated this for years and years.
2. The Russians are fighting Nazis within Ukraine. The want to destroy the Nazi Party.
3. The Russians want to support the ethnic Russian and Russian speaking people in Ukraine who have been attacked and subjugated for the last 8 years.

No, no. Don't consider any of this. The clear explanation is that Putin is a madman, worse than Hitler. First he wants all of Ukraine and then Europe!

People just ate this up without so much as a question.

[Off the Court]

Neither myself nor the video are claiming that the US could not have done this. That's too black and white and no one should be that definitive in this. If you've already made up your mind and you can't be talked off your hill then that is the wrong place to be here. I for one have no issues saying the US did this if that were the case and if we pulled the trigger here I'm fine with it. Biden already threatened it and in my opinion supplying Ukraine with billions of dollars and weapons is far worse when you are looking at things from Putin's angle.

There are things surrounding the issue that are questionable if this were the US. And as I look today another issue points to Russia. Apparently gas can still be transferred from Russia to Europe from the part of the pipeline that was not damaged. Meaning Russia can still send gas and also gain the advantage of the US looking like the bad guys to Europe.

[ZenMaster]

Here is Russia's motive. You said it yourself.

Biden said he would do it, that is Putin calling him out on it.

It's like if Putin said he will nuke Kyiv and then Ukraine nukes Kyiv themselves knowing it would be the end of Russia and they'd win the war.

It's a desperation move to get EU to turn on USA.

Which brings me to my own theory, Biden already said he'd do it so he had no reason to deny it. He's supplying billions of dollars and weapons to Ukraine and doesn't deny that so why would he deny this? If the US did do it they would have coordinationated it with most of Europe especially Germany.

Now, just like the guy in that video, I will say that they're is no evidence either way so it's all just theory. That's all anyone can do here is theorize.

His theories don't suggest the US couldn't have done it, they just suggest that the way it was carried out leans toward Russia.

Even if Swedish intelligence found evidence of US involvement, like an unblown charge, which they probably won't, but even if they did it can't be public and official that the US did it.

It would mean that
1) the US blew up what is part of European energy infrastructure, which would technically be a hostile act on an ally.
2) the US blew up a pipeline owned and handled by Russia, also an active hostile act towards another country and it would be crossing a line that Biden has previously said he wouldn't do.

Instead the official narrative that we have is about whodunnit "sabotage" and it being "a tremendous opportunity" for the US, but that it's probably caused by Russia.

Rolando has already explained everything wrong with the assumptions towards the theory the guy in your video applies, but it should also be noted that the guy is not a civilian, he's part of Danish defence - a strong ally to the US - and he regularly appears on Danish television in uniform as a military expert.

Here he is on AP: