Lebron has so many bad things about his career

[Smook A.]

.
* bad championship record/weak team ceiling

* #1 in turnovers

* weak jumper

* reputation for choking

* 1-trick pony like Iverson or Dwight before the "decision", and a career-losing ball-dominator like CP3, Luka or Westbrook

Absolutely 0 context

[3ba11]

Absolutely 0 context

Context in bold


* bad championship record/weak team ceiling 20-21 in the Finals excluding 07', 15' and 18, so Lebron has a lottery record on the championship level regardless of cast (with super-teams)

* #1 in turnovers among the league leaders in turnovers per game every year

* weak jumper (avoids contested jumpers - 90% of his jumpers are either "open" or "wide open" according to NBA.com.. His inability to take shots in the flow hurts ball-movement, chemistry and lets the defense rest)

* reputation for choking
1) bad efficiency on game-winners (scared in clutch) and none in 10 Finals
2) the most missed FT's ever in the clutch
3) bailed out in 2 Finals
4) melted down or gave up in 11' Finals, 14' Finals and 10' ECSF

[Full Court]

OP left out the most egregious thing of all about Bronie.

The man tried to trademark Taco Tuesday.

Think about it. The dirty, rotten sack of bum fluff tried to trademark Taco Tuesday.

Unforgivable.

[Smook A.]

Context in bold


* bad championship record/weak team ceiling 20-21 in the Finals excluding 07', 15' and 18, so Lebron has a lottery record on the championship level regardless of cast (with super-teams)

* #1 in turnovers among the league leaders in turnovers per game every year

* weak jumper (avoids contested jumpers - 90% of his jumpers are either "open" or "wide open" according to NBA.com.. His inability to take shots in the flow hurts ball-movement, chemistry and lets the defense rest)

* reputation for choking
1) bad efficiency on game-winners (scared in clutch) and none in 10 Finals
2) the most missed FT's ever in the clutch
3) bailed out in 2 Finals
4) melted down or gave up in 11' Finals, 14' Finals and 10' ECSF

Let me fix it for you

*bad championship record/weak team ceiling - The only finals you can really blame LeBron for his team losing is 2011 vs Mavericks. The rest of the losses in 07, 14, 15, 17, and 18 had much more to do with how dominant his opponents were. He still played really well in each of those series, so you can't put the blame on him. His teams were severely outmatched in 07, 17, and 18. The Spurs in 07 were unstoppable, and the Warriors in 2017 and 2018 were arguably the most stacked team of all time. In 2014, the Spurs were just flat out better than every team in the league. LeBron still played really well in that series, but his supporting cast didn't. D-Wade might have had his worst series ever in the 14 finals. In 2015, LeBron damn near averaged a 35 ppg triple-double and almost won the series even with Kyrie playing only 1 game and Kevin Love playing none. I think we should all know by now that you can't win the championship without a really good supporting cast, no matter how great of a player you are. You of all people should know that.

* #1 in turnovers - He's been in the league for 19 years and one of his key skills is playmaking. This is like pointing out that Kobe is #1 all-time in field goals missed. These types of records honestly speak more towards longevity than anything. Instead of looking at the turnovers, let's focus on how great of a playmaker he is. He once lead the entire league in APG, and has finished top 5 in APG several times. Not to mention, he's at 10k career assists and currently #7 all-time. The next non-PG on that list is James Harden and he's all the way at #31.

* weak jumper - This isn't true. While LeBron may not be a great shooter, he's certainly not a "weak" one. When I think of a weak jumpshot, I think of someone like Simmons, Smart, and Westbrook. Since 2009, LeBron's always been very near or slightly above the league average 3P%. Last season he shot 36% on 8 attempts from three which was above league average. In the 2012-13 season, he shot nearly 41% from 3. That's insanely good. Overall, LeBron absolutely dominates the paint. At the rim, he's consistently shot 70-75% and his overall 2P% hovers around 58%-60%. Last season, he shot 62% from 2. Point is, he doesn't necessarily need a great jumpshot because he excels in other areas of scoring and his 3P shot is nowhere near bad.

* reputation for choking - Completely false. Everyone talks about the Ray Allen shot from the 2013 Finals in game 6, but people forget to mention that LeBron made a clutch 3 before that shot. If LeBron had never made that shot, Ray Allen would have never had the opportunity to tie the game up. There's been many other times where LeBron has put the game away simply through his dominance, and he's hit several clutch shots in his career. 2018 playoffs are a perfect example of that. Also, bringing your team back from 3-1 in the FINALS and having the most important defensive play in finals history doesn't sound like a choker to me. LeBron in the playoffs is the definition of dominant and clutch. People will overlook all of his clutch moments because of the few playoff blunders he's had.

* 1-trick pony like Iverson or Dwight before the "decision", and a career-losing ball-dominator like CP3, Luka or Westbrook - You're just talking out of your ass at this point.

[Ne 1]

Preseason odds mean something when one guy always meets them and the other guy nearly always fails them.

Preseason odds are also a measure of on-paper talent - so if one guy is always underachieving the talent expectation, this indicates a weak brand of ball and chemistry.. Obviously, we know that Lebron's abnormal reliance on ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, so he lacks the teammate development, fits and brand of ball to win organically... And apparently meet the on-paper talent expectation (preseason odds).

Heck, even Wizards' Jordan met the preseason expectation in 2002 of 18 more wins (37 total), while Lebron missed the play-in with the preseason favorite (biggest underachievement ever)

Lebron's garbage brand of ball and teammate fits underachieves the talent expectation

preseason odds are meaningless lol this isn’t debatable or subjective. It’s literally a fact. They are SOLELY a reflection of betters and oddsmakers, almost as useless as preseason power rankings. Finals odds are based on actual teams and body of work not just pure speculation.

[SouBeachTalents]

3ball must be a masochist, logs on here just to get shat on regularly

[3ba11]

* 1-trick pony like Iverson or Dwight before the "decision", and a career-losing ball-dominator like CP3, Luka or Westbrook

^^^ You're just talking out of your ass at this point.

It's literally the historical record

Before the "decision", Lebron had 1 Finals run like Iverson, Dwight or Kidd (1-trick pony)

That's the historical record - why are you denying it?

he was also a career-losing ball-dominator like Luka or Westbrook before the "decision".. This includes 22 on 36% in the 07' Finals.... or 26 on 35% in the 08' ECSF..... he also lost as the favorite to Dwight in 09' (1-star opponent), and then 21 on 34% to lose a 2-1 lead as the favorite in 2010..

Again, that's the historical record - why would you dispute it?.. He was nothing before the "decision" to manufacture his resume

[red1]

[red1]

blah blah blah


madonna. gambling. grocery bagging rivals.





























scottie pippen.

[red1]

I combined two photos to complete that comic by the way.


some nifty work by me.

[Smook A.]

It's literally the historical record

Before the "decision", Lebron had 1 Finals run like Iverson, Dwight or Kidd (1-trick pony)

That's the historical record - why are you denying it?

he was also a career-losing ball-dominator like Luka or Westbrook before the "decision".. This includes 22 on 36% in the 07' Finals.... or 26 on 35% in the 08' ECSF..... he also lost as the favorite to Dwight in 09' (1-star opponent), and then 21 on 34% to lose a 2-1 lead as the favorite in 2010..

Again, that's the historical record - why would you dispute it?.. He was nothing before the "decision" to manufacture his resume

Sure he made 1 finals before the decision, but what was the point of even bringing that up when he's won 4 championships and made 9 more finals since that? You're just trying to nitpick things to add more to your garbage argument here. By focusing on the negatives of LeBron's career, you're simply putting yourself at a disadvantage by making any argument because his achievement far outweigh his down moments. It's not even close.

But since you're so focused on LeBron's resume before the decision, lets do a little deep-dive. You mentioned his poor shooting in the 07 finals, which is understandable. However, you can't ignore the fact that he carried his team to the finals at the age of 22. That itself is insanely impressive, especially you take into account who he had to beat to get there. Completely dominated the experienced Pistons in the ECF. In the 2008 ECSF, he shoot poorly to start the series against Boston but ultimately still took the eventual champions to 7 games. And lets not forget that he almost lead the Cavs to victory against Boston in game 7 by scoring 45 points.

In 2009, he played extremely well in the ECF vs the Magic. 38/8/8 on 59% TS along with one of the nastiest game-winners ever in the playoffs. The loss of that series was much more on the Magic's supporting cast playing really well and the Cavs supporting cast not showing up. In 2010, I can't give LeBron a pass for his play against the Celtics, but saying he was "nothing" before the decision is an absolutely ridiculous statement. Before he joined the Heat, he was already a 2x MVP, made the finals once, and had multiple all-stars and all-NBA's to his name. Just because he didn't have a championship before joining the Heat, doesn't mean you can dispute all of his achievements he had with the Cavs from 2003-2010. People were talking about him being the best player in the league since as early as 2007-08.

[3ba11]

.
2010 Wade....... 28 PER.... 9 BPM
2010 Kobe'....... 21 PER.... 4 BPM

2010 Bosh'........ 6x all-star and 1x all-nba
2010 Pau.......... 1x all-star and 0x all-nba


^^^ Lebron joined Kobe/Pau II and proceeded to go 2/4 including the goat choke and record loss - that's the worst anyone can do

Sure he made 1 Finals before the "decision", but what was the point of even bringing that up when he's won 4 championships and made 9 more finals since that?

The same argument can be used for Durant - let's take your quote above and replace Lebron with Durant:

"Sure he made 1 finals before teaming up with Curry, but what's the point of bringing that up when he's won 2 championships and made 3 more finals since that?"

that's literally what you just said above.

Similar to Durant's "decision" to team up with Curry, Lebron's "decision" locked down the league with 3 rings in 6 years and preseason favorite super-teams for 6 straight years (11-16').. Durant's only mistake was waiting 6 years to respond - Lebron had a 6-year headstart at player-driven collusions and super-teams, so his rings are no better than Durant's, whose collusion with Curry merely broke Lebron's record for collusion.

what was the point of even bringing that up when he's won 4 championships and made 9 more finals since that?

Lebron teamed up with the top two 1st options in his conference - he consolidated power in the conference and then made a bunch of Finals.

That's like Booker teaming up with Joker and Karl-Anthony Towns and then making a bunch of Finals - no one would tolerate this in today's game but Lebron had the surprise factor in 2011 - no one knew how to handle it..

The online world killed him for it but the TV media protected him - they now praise and vigorously protect his decision, resume, and failures.. Somehow they don't view Lebron's collusions as an advantage (double standard with Durant), while also not understanding that Lebron's brand of ball and weak teammate fits is the source of his weak team ceilings/Finals records.. You claim that Lebron ran into dominant teams, but HIS teams were the preseason favorite from 2011-2016 - only an inferior brand of ball stopped his preseason favorites from flirting with 70 wins like Kawhi and Curry did (better brands of ball).

his achievement far outweigh his down moments.

Actually, that isn't true... Any top-three 1st option of a conference will make a bunch of Finals if they team up with the other two 1st options.

Aside from 2007, his trips to the Finals mean nothing because he diluted the conference and consolidated power on his team to do so.

And on the championship level (Finals), Lebron is literally the worst all-time - his 22-33 record is the worst in 3-pointer history - he literally fields teams that are lottery-caliber among Finals teams (lottery record on the championship level)..

Even if we exclude 07', 15' and 18', Lebron is 20-21 in the Finals, which confirms that he has lottery records on the championship level REGARDLESS OF CAST and with super-teams.

he carried his team to the finals at the age of 22.

Magic was FMVP at 20, while 22-year Amare played far better than Lebron against the same champion Spurs:

05' Amare vs Spurs..... 37 on 55%
07' Lebron vs Spurs..... 22 on 36%


Similarly, Jordan played much better against championship comp and #1 defense at 22-23 years old:

86' Jordan vs Celts........ 44 on 50%
07' Lebron vs. Spurs...... 22 on 36%
08' Lebron vs Celts........ 26 on 35%

Completely dominated the experienced Pistons in the ECF.

The Pistons were garbage (#6 SRS), so Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (zero carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing)..

That's an utterly massive sample size..

He simply lacks the brand of ball to successfully carry the scoring load against top teams (too ball-dominant), while also lacking the jumpshooting skill to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals).

Since ball-dominators like Lebron lack the jumpshooting skill and brand of ball to carry the scoring load, they can't win with secondary producers like Wiggins, Pippen or Lowry and need all-time scoring help like Kareem, Wade, AD, Kyrie and super-teams.

In the 2008 ECSF, he shoot poorly to start the series against Boston

The Cavs' defense took the Celtics to 7 games while Lebron wet the bed - that's the historical record.

In 2009, he played extremely well in the ECF vs the Magic. 38/8/8 on 59% TS along with one of the nastiest game-winners ever in the playoffs. The loss of that series was much more on the Magic's supporting cast playing really well and the Cavs supporting cast not showing up.

Ball-dominators like Lebron can't successfully carry the scoring load against top teams (too ball-dominant), so they need all-time scoring help like Kareem, Wade, AD, or Kyrie... Otoh, expert jumpshooters can carry the scoring load against top teams (score a lot with a good ball movement) and therefore win with secondary producers like Wiggins, Lowry, Mo or Pippen.

Again, Lebron lacks the jumpshooting skill and brand of ball to have carry-jobs against top teams - specifically, he can't carry bed-wetting sidekicks over top 5 SRS teams and he needs equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention, so he never defeated maximum defensive attention (never carried scoring load in the Finals).

Stan Van Gundy said that they "wanted to let him dribble and get stats"..

they enjoyed facing a weak brand of ball (ball-domination) - Lebron lacked the elite jumpshooting skill needed to maintain ball movement at high scoring volumes, so he can't beat top teams while carrying the scoring load.. Again, he lacks the brand of ball and jumpshooting skill needed to have carry-jobs against top teams.

In 2010, I can't give LeBron a pass for his play against the Celtics, but saying he was "nothing" before the decision is an absolutely ridiculous statement.

Lebron averaged 34 on 53% to get a 2-1 lead, and then 21 on 34% to lose the next 3 games.

So he was the only reason the Cavs lost as a massive favorite against an old, 50-win Celtic team.. KG was a 14/7 bum post-injury and the old Celtics only won 50 games that year with everyone healthy.. Meanwhile, the Cavs added Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite and the league MVP.

Before he joined the Heat, he was already a 2x MVP, made the finals once, and had multiple all-stars and all-NBA's to his name. Just because he didn't have a championship before joining the Heat, doesn't mean you can dispute all of his achievements he had with the Cavs from 2003-2010. People were talking about him being the best player in the league since as early as 2007-08.

The 2009 Cavs had the 3rd ranked defense compared to 19th for the 90' Bulls, while Mo destroyed Pippen offensively across the board (scoring, efficiency, PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48) - so Lebron had a better team than MJ on both sides of the ball, yet Jordan still beat him to titles.. Jordan won the next year in 91', while Lebron lost as the favorite again for 2 more years (10', 11').

So the facts show that Lebron and his nferior brand of ball, jumpshooting, post, clutch, decision-making (turnovers), organic ability (teammate development, fits, brand of ball) and many other things are nowhere near Jordan.

[SouBeachTalents]

.
2010 Wade....... 28 PER.... 9 BPM
2010 Kobe'....... 21 PER.... 4 BPM

2010 Bosh'........ 6x all-star and 1x all-nba
2010 Pau.......... 1x all-star and 0x all-nba






The same argument can be used for Durant - let's take your quote above and replace Lebron with Durant:

"Sure he made 1 finals before teaming up with Curry, but what's the point of bringing that up when he's won 2 championships and made 3 more finals since that?"

that's literally what you just said above.

Similar to Durant's "decision" to team up with Curry, Lebron's "decision" locked down the league with 3 rings in 6 years and preseason favorite super-teams for 6 straight years (11-16').. Durant's only mistake was waiting 6 years to respond - Lebron had a 6-year headstart at player-driven collusions and super-teams, so his rings are no better than Durant's, whose collusion with Curry merely broke Lebron's record for collusion.






Lebron teamed up with the top two 1st options in his conference - he consolidated power in the conference and then made a bunch of Finals.

That's like Booker teaming up with Joker and Karl-Anthony Towns and then making a bunch of Finals - no one would tolerate this in today's game but Lebron had the surprise factor on his side in 2011 - no one knew how to handle it..

The online world killed him for it but the TV medied him - they now praise and vigorously protect his decision, resume, and failures.. Somehow they don't view Lebron's collusions as an advantage (double swith Durant), while also not viewing Lebron's brand of ball and weak teammate fits as the source of his weak team ceilings/Finals records.. You claim that Lebron ran into dominant teams, but HIS teams were the preseason favorite from 2011-2016 - only an inferior brand of ball stopped his preseason favorites from flirting with 70 wins like Kawhi and Curry did (better brands of ball).






Actually, that isn't true... Any top three 1st option in the conference will make a bunch of Finals if they team up with the other two 1st options.

Aside from 2007, his trips to the Finals mean nothing because he diluted the conference and consolidated power on his team to do so.

And on the championship level (Finals), Lebron is literally the worst all-time - his 22-33 record is the worst in 3-pointer history - he literally fields teams that are lottery-caliber among Finals teams (lottery record on the championship level)..

Even if we exclude 07', 15' and 18', Lebron is 20-21 in the Finals, which confirms that he has lottery records on the championship level REGARDLESS OF CAST and with super-teams.






Magic was FMVP at 20, while 22-year Amare played far better than Lebron against the same champion Spurs:

05' Amare vs Spurs..... 37 on 55%
07' Lebron vs Spurs..... 22 on 36%


Similarly, Jordan played much better against championship comp and #1 defense at 22-23 years old:

86' Jordan vs Celts........ 44 on 50%
07' Lebron vs. Spurs...... 22 on 36%
08' Lebron vs Celts........ 26 on 35%






Lebron only needed 25 ppg to beat the garbage Pistons (#6 SRS), so he never beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (zero carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing)..

That's an utterly massive sample size..

He simply lacks the brand of ball to successfully carry the scoring load against top teams (too ball-dominant), while also lacking the elite jumpshooting skill to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals).

Since ball-dominators like Lebron lack the jumpshooting skill and brand of ball to carry the scoring load, they can't win with secondary producers like Wiggins, Pippen or Lowry and need all-time scoring help like Kareem, Wade, AD, Kyrie and super-teams.






The Cavs' defense took the Celtics to 7 games while Lebron wet the bed - that's the historical record.






Ball-dominators like Lebron can't successfully carry the scoring load against top teams (too ball-dominant), so they need all-time scoring help like Kareem, Wade, AD, or Kyrie... Otoh, expert jumpshooters can carry the scoring load against top teams (score a lot with a good ball movement) and therefore win with secondary producers like Wiggins, Lowry, Mo or Pippen.

Again, Lebron lacks the jumpshooting skill and brand of ball to have carry-jobs against top teams - specifically, he can't carry bed-wetting sidekicks over top 5 SRS teams and he needs equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention, so he never defeated maximum defensive attention (never carried scoring load in the Finals).

Stan Van Gundy said that they "wanted to let him dribble and get stats"..

they enjoyed facing a weak brand of ball (ball-domination) - Lebron lacked the elite jumpshooting skill needed to maintain ball movement at high scoring volumes, so he can't beat top teams while carrying the scoring load.. Again, he lacks the brand of ball and jumpshooting skill needed to have carry-jobs against top teams.






Lebron averaged 34 on 53% to get a 2-1 lead, and then 21 on 34% to lose the next 3 games.

So he was the only reason the Cavs lost as a massive favorite against an old, 50-win Celtic team.. KG was a 14/7 bum post-injury and the old Celtics only won 50 games that year with everyone healthy.. Meanwhile, the Cavs added Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite and the league MVP.






The 2009 Cavs had the 3rd ranked defense compared to 19th for the 90' Bulls, while Mo destroyed Pippen offensively across the board (scoring, efficiency, PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48) - so Lebron had a better team than MJ on both sides of the ball, yet Jordan still beat him to titles.. Jordan won the next year in 91', while Lebron lost as the favorite again for 2 more years (10', 11').

So the facts show that Lebron and his nferior brand of ball, jumpshooting, post, clutch, decision-making (turnovers), organic ability (teammate development, fits, brand of ball) and many other things are nowhere near Jordan.

1-9