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  1. #16
    NO KLAY, NO PLAY AlternativeAcc.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does Rudy Gobert get a pass for not developing his offensive game, but Simmon

    Quote Originally Posted by Kblaze8855 View Post
    I don’t know what he was scoring when they signed him to that contract but whatever it was, I doubt they expected him to develop into a scorer.

    30-40 million is just what good players cost these days. If a really good player makes under 30 million it’s because he signed the deal before he broke out.
    He's a role playing center who is a turnover machine. Nobody pays 40 million for that... only dumb franchises who buy the hype on his overrated defense which isn't even effective in the playoffs.

    The other guys you mentioned all get payed less than half of Gobert.

  2. #17
    3-time NBA All-Star Full Court's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does Rudy Gobert get a pass for not developing his offensive game, but Simmon

    I don't know where OP is coming from. Rudy Gobert gets an inordinate amount of criticism on here. There are threads made after every game about how he sucks lol.

    But he "gets a pass"?


  3. #18
    NO KLAY, NO PLAY AlternativeAcc.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does Rudy Gobert get a pass for not developing his offensive game, but Simmon

    Quote Originally Posted by tontoz View Post
    What does his contract have to do with it? That is a completely separate argument.

    I think Beal is a good player. I was on record as saying I would rather let him walk for nothing rather than paying him $50 million per year.

    Contracts are a different discussion.
    It has something to do with his team being able to sign other good players. His contract matters,

    If it's a purely "is this dude a good player" I honestly don't think he is. Turnover machine, offensive liability, can't defend the PnR for shit and easily exploited in the playoffs.

    He's just not good. He's a good rim protector and that's it, but games are won behind the arc so he's a worthless dinosaur. He sucks.

  4. #19
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer Xiao Yao You's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does Rudy Gobert get a pass for not developing his offensive game, but Simmon

    Quote Originally Posted by AlternativeAcc. View Post
    It has something to do with his team being able to sign other good players. His contract matters,

    If it's a purely "is this dude a good player" I honestly don't think he is. Turnover machine, offensive liability, can't defend the PnR for shit and easily exploited in the playoffs.

    He's just not good. He's a good rim protector and that's it, but games are won behind the arc so he's a worthless dinosaur. He sucks.
    a lot easier to play behind the perimeter if you're wide open. You play with Gobert you will be wide open a lot

  5. #20
    NBA Legend tontoz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does Rudy Gobert get a pass for not developing his offensive game, but Simmon

    Quote Originally Posted by AlternativeAcc. View Post
    It has something to do with his team being able to sign other good players. His contract matters,

    If it's a purely "is this dude a good player" I honestly don't think he is. Turnover machine, offensive liability, can't defend the PnR for shit and easily exploited in the playoffs.

    He's just not good. He's a good rim protector and that's it, but games are won behind the arc so he's a worthless dinosaur. He sucks.


    So if he made only $5 million then he wouldn't suck, right?


  6. #21
    NO KLAY, NO PLAY AlternativeAcc.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does Rudy Gobert get a pass for not developing his offensive game, but Simmon

    Quote Originally Posted by tontoz View Post
    So if he made only $5 million then he wouldn't suck, right?

    He would still suck and I clearly explained that in my previous post.

    If it's a purely "is this dude a good player" I honestly don't think he is. Turnover machine, offensive liability, can't defend the PnR for shit and easily exploited in the playoffs.
    Reading is hard guys.

  7. #22
    NBA Legend tontoz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does Rudy Gobert get a pass for not developing his offensive game, but Simmon

    Quote Originally Posted by AlternativeAcc. View Post
    He would still suck and I clearly explained that in my previous post.



    Reading is hard guys.

    If he was all of that they he wouldn't average 13 ppf for his career shooting 66% with an ortg of 128.

  8. #23
    Titles are overrated Kblaze8855's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does Rudy Gobert get a pass for not developing his offensive game, but Simmon

    He doesn’t defend the pick and roll like say a Joakim Noah or how Kevin Garnett could pop out and do a few things and move around but he doesn’t have to. He blows up plays dropping down to the foul line. It isn’t always gonna work with todays shooting but over the course of a season it’s disruptive enough to give him good impact numbers along with the traditional lane filling and shot altering.

    Problem is in a playoff series all you need is whoever he’s supposed to be guarding to get even halfway hot. It’s hard to keep an open nba player from getting into a rhythm. And there’s always some long wing you can throw in there who just sacrifices rebounds and ****s you to death dragging him out of the paint on defense.

    Teams won’t worry about it in the regular season because you work on your day to day sets without too much concern for any single game. In the playoffs when they all matter?

    You can shoot his ass right off the court or make him go actually guard the 3 making his team abandon its defensive tactics of the entire season before then. It’s hard to retrain people who have been used to having him behind them the entire year to just be brick walls when funneling drives his way has been half of the defense.

    I don’t know what you do about it at this point other than hope 3-4 straight teams can’t find a decent shooting tall wing to stick at the center when they wanna delete him.

  9. #24
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer Xiao Yao You's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does Rudy Gobert get a pass for not developing his offensive game, but Simmon

    Quote Originally Posted by Kblaze8855 View Post
    He doesn’t defend the pick and roll like say a Joakim Noah or how Kevin Garnett could pop out and do a few things and move around but he doesn’t have to. He blows up plays dropping down to the foul line. It isn’t always gonna work with todays shooting but over the course of a season it’s disruptive enough to give him good impact numbers along with the traditional lane filling and shot altering.

    Problem is in a playoff series all you need is whoever he’s supposed to be guarding to get even halfway hot. It’s hard to keep an open nba player from getting into a rhythm. And there’s always some long wing you can throw in there who just sacrifices rebounds and ****s you to death dragging him out of the paint on defense.

    Teams won’t worry about it in the regular season because you work on your day to day sets without too much concern for any single game. In the playoffs when they all matter?

    You can shoot his ass right off the court or make him go actually guard the 3 making his team abandon its defensive tactics of the entire season before then.

    I don’t know what you do about it at this point other than hope 3 4 straight teams can’t find a decent shooting tall wing to stick at the center when they wanna delete him.
    You put other guys around him that defend so he doesn't have to try and guard everyone by himself. You have another big that can protect the rim to some extent when he has to leave the paint. You put him with two other great players that will overwhelm them at the other end. A coach that will make adjustments couldn't hurt even if they weren't a great college player
    Last edited by Xiao Yao You; 11-29-2022 at 07:30 PM.

  10. #25
    NBA Legend tontoz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does Rudy Gobert get a pass for not developing his offensive game, but Simmon

    Sometimes over reliance on the 3 can backfire. Witness Houston a few years back.

    Utah's big problem is that they didn't have many good defenders other than Rudy. Conley is good against pgs but is vulnerable on switches.

  11. #26
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer Xiao Yao You's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does Rudy Gobert get a pass for not developing his offensive game, but Simmon

    Quote Originally Posted by tontoz View Post
    Sometimes over reliance on the 3 can backfire. Witness Houston a few years back.

    Utah's big problem is that they didn't have many good defenders other than Rudy. Conley is good against pgs but is vulnerable on switches.
    Conley seemed small much of the time but that's more that he was playing with 2's that didn't play big. Utah's D right now has been horrible with Conley out

  12. #27
    Titles are overrated Kblaze8855's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does Rudy Gobert get a pass for not developing his offensive game, but Simmon

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiao Yao You View Post
    You put other guys around him that defend so he doesn't have to try and guard everyone by himself. You have another big that can protect the rim to some extent when he has to leave the paint. You put him with two other great players that will overwhelm them at the other end. A coach that will make adjustments couldn't hurt even if they weren't a great college player

    The purpose of a guy who removes the entire paint as an option, is to guard the entire other team. If he were there to guard individuals, he’d be of much less use. He’s a Dikembe Mutombo not a Dennis Rodman. He’s not a man to man stopper he is there for his team defense. Small ball, however makes him either play individual defense and destroy the entire game plan his team has relied on the entire year or continue to defend the paint and concede threes.

    Everyone on the team being good at everything isn’t a solution. Or better it’s the solution for everything not this specific issue. They aren’t gonna play him with a second rim defender. That’s usually gonna be a second guy to disrupt the spacing on offense.

    And putting him with two elite players isn’t a solution either. You might as well say you solve a teams problems by making them a superteam too overwhelming for their dysfunction to matter.

    ”Make the whole team great ln both ends” and “Give him two offensive superstars” aren’t tactics they are fairy tails. A gm would likely say “Oh…add multiple superstars? Damn why didn’t we come up with that?”.

    It’s just trying to cover the problem with other peoples greatness. You can cover any problem by just adding insurmountable talent so long as they get along.

    In the real world where you don’t just make stars and 8 great two way players appear out of thin air you need solutions that involve tactical changes and I don’t see what they could be at this point.

    His type just isn’t built for playoff ball in a league where 9 people on every team can punish you from 3 so you can’t play your regular season D after they decide to make you honor it.

    If your idea is for him to go guard the perimeter one on one while everyone else stops their men from getting to the paint in a league that set out to neuter perimeter defense you need to go back to the drawing board.

    Players can travel, carry, and push off….defenders can’t hold them on the ball or off….and they all have massive driving lanes once you are forced to guard everyone at 23-30 feet.

    ”Everyone just stop your man” is a pipe dream in the league the nba has created with the caliber of player these guys have to stop.

    The problem is leaning on these old school paint clogging bigs to anchor the D all year to begin with. Works great for a while. Will win you some games. But it just gets them out of practice with the kinda offense the nba will play to get that guy out of the game.

    There is little to do about it I can see.

  13. #28
    NBA Legend tontoz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does Rudy Gobert get a pass for not developing his offensive game, but Simmon

    I used to live in Atlanta when Deke was there and he was my favorite player on the team. He would not go out to challenge a 3 point shooter. I seriously don't think he ever did it unless it was an end of game situation.

  14. #29
    ... iamgine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does Rudy Gobert get a pass for not developing his offensive game, but Simmon

    OP's premise is wrong. It's not about offensive game or developing a shot. It's about refusal to shoot.

    We know Simmons can shoot. He just won't. At all.

    It's like if Rudy won't try to block shot at all. How would that look.

  15. #30
    Titles are overrated Kblaze8855's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does Rudy Gobert get a pass for not developing his offensive game, but Simmon

    I remember a nasty long two Kobe made over Mutombo in the 01 all star game and it might be the only hard closeout on a shooter I ever saw Mutombo make.

    Those kinds of players just present a problem vs a team with 5 shooters. It’s not an indictment of them personally but players generally are suited to the league they play in. Not everyone is built for every situation and every eras play style.

    Like I said it makes a big difference spread over 82 games because teams won’t rebuild their whole offense to win a random November Tuesday night game. They’re polishing the execution of what they do not making it up on the fly for tonight.

    In the playoffs they prepare to play just you…4-7 times. They play to beat you not to stay sharp at what got them there. Gobert and Mutombo played great modern “Get us there” defense.

    When you get there?

    You are better off with a Draymond Green style defensive big.

    You wouldn’t be in 1992 but it is what it is.

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