-
01-22-2025, 06:18 PM
#121
Re: I still think Jokic is underrated
He's the only player in NBA history to have the actual impact of a triple double.
He gets a natural triple double.
He bangs down low and gets impactful rebounds, on offense that lead to put backs, he clears the paint and boxes everyone out on defense and really dominates the defensive glass.
His passing tremendous. Best pure passer in the league with his 10 assists, and he doesn't ball dominate to get those assists.
Then his 30 PPG is hyper efficient and dominant, drawing doubles and constant attention all over the court.
Westbrook never controlled the glass and neither did Oscar or Kidd. Though Kidd was amazing in other ways defensively.
-
01-22-2025, 07:02 PM
#122
Long Live The Process
Re: I still think Jokic is underrated
 Originally Posted by StrongLurk
You misunderstand. Jokic WAS underrated when I made this thread. Go read through the pages.
This was before Jok won a ring and there were still SO many people hating on him in the media and fanbase. Many fans and media members DID NOT think Jokic deserved both MVPs, despite him playing at a GOAT level.
We even saw the consequences of this when Embiid literally won a pity-MVP. That PROVED my entire premise correct.
Giannis won back-to-back MVPS, but no one had him GOAT-level because he simply isn't. Jokic actually DESERVED to be looked at as GOAT-level but people hated on him because he is a foreign player, "unathletic", and he went against all the "celebrity" culture that exists in the NBA.
Who are you referring to? Beside Stephen A and Big Perk, Jokic is universally loved.
Pehaps he is the most widely loved superstar by the media. His popularity has shown in his MVP votes.
Who are these haters besides the two I mentioned?
-
01-22-2025, 09:15 PM
#123
Re: I still think Jokic is underrated
 Originally Posted by fourkicks44
Who are you referring to? Beside Stephen A and Big Perk, Jokic is universally loved.
Pehaps he is the most widely loved superstar by the media. His popularity has shown in his MVP votes.
Who are these haters besides the two I mentioned?
Almost everyone in mainstream media when I made this thread in December 2022. Nick Wright was also a MASSIVE Jokic hater. Same with Brian Windhorst.
Im not going to dig up all the stuff I was seeing from 2021-2022, but so many people were skeptical about Jokic in the media (unfairly), and so many people tried to hang the "no rings" argument on Jokic's head.
EVERYTHING changed after Embiid won his pity-MVP in 2023 and when Jokic won his first ring shortly after. Jokic literally made the haters been the knee the same way Lebron has done.
-
01-24-2025, 08:23 AM
#124
Re: I still think Jokic is underrated
Dude is a top ten player of all time without question. Don't care about rings or team accomplishments. Take out Wilt, Bird, whoever, Jokic is better.
-
01-24-2025, 09:17 AM
#125
Euros rule NBA, UMAD?
Re: I still think Jokic is underrated
 Originally Posted by elementally morale
He doesn't need to get better. All I was saying is that I can imagine him becoming even better. Nash became better over 30. Not physically but as a player. One can argue that Kobe became better despite being less athletic at aroind the age of 30. Dirk was at his best as a 32-33 year-old. The way Jokic plays he can improve in some areas, one of them being looking to attack the basket more just like he did this last game. We shall see,
Crazy enough, he did especially from 3. And since his game is so low impact in terms of movement, he's likely to avoid any major injuries short of a freak one and be like this well through his late 30s if he plays that long.
-
01-24-2025, 09:25 AM
#126
Lol
Re: I still think Jokic is underrated
 Originally Posted by StrongLurk
Dude is a top ten player of all time without question. Don't care about rings or team accomplishments. Take out Wilt, Bird, whoever, Jokic is better.
Maybe if you ignore defense.
-
01-24-2025, 09:26 AM
#127
National High School Star
Re: I still think Jokic is underrated
He doesn't provide the vertical spacing that Gobert does
-
01-24-2025, 10:36 AM
#128
NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: I still think Jokic is underrated
 Originally Posted by RRR3
Maybe if you ignore defense.
And yet everybody ranks Magic as a top 10 GOAT so that doesn't disqualify anything.
-
01-24-2025, 11:22 AM
#129
Re: I still think Jokic is underrated
 Originally Posted by RRR3
Maybe if you ignore defense.
Jokic is top 5 in steals and deflections this year. He clearly has improved on that end. He wont ever be a rim protector or all-nba caliber defender, but he doesn't need to be. Individual offense has always been more impactful than individual defense. A guy like Steve Nash (all O, no D) is far more impactful than a guy like Ben Wallace (no O, all D).
You also have to factor in how Jokic is one of the best rebounders of all time too. I'm a big Lebron guy, but Jokic at his peak might have surpassed him as the best scorer/passer/rebounder combo player ever. I understand this current era is the most offensive friendly and we don't exactly know how a peak Lebron or a peak Larry Bird would look, but Jokic is without question in consideration for the best ever scorer/passer/rebounder combo player.
I made the post below 2 and a half months ago and Jokic has only gotten better.
MJ (1988-1993): 30.3 PER, 59.3 TS%, .288 WS/48, 11.2 BPM (8.5 OBPM, 2.8 DBPM)
Jokic (2020-November 2025): 31.6, 66.3 TS%, .301 WS/48, 13 BPM (9 OBPM, 4 DBPM)
-
01-24-2025, 01:35 PM
#130
NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: I still think Jokic is underrated
Since when did RRR3 become a Jokic hater?
-
01-24-2025, 01:43 PM
#131
Lol
Re: I still think Jokic is underrated
 Originally Posted by 1987_Lakers
Since when did RRR3 become a Jokic hater? 
Meltdown.
-
01-24-2025, 01:44 PM
#132
NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: I still think Jokic is underrated
 Originally Posted by StrongLurk
Jokic is top 5 in steals and deflections this year. He clearly has improved on that end. He wont ever be a rim protector or all-nba caliber defender, but he doesn't need to be. Individual offense has always been more impactful than individual defense. A guy like Steve Nash (all O, no D) is far more impactful than a guy like Ben Wallace (no O, all D).
You also have to factor in how Jokic is one of the best rebounders of all time too. I'm a big Lebron guy, but Jokic at his peak might have surpassed him as the best scorer/passer/rebounder combo player ever. I understand this current era is the most offensive friendly and we don't exactly know how a peak Lebron or a peak Larry Bird would look, but Jokic is without question in consideration for the best ever scorer/passer/rebounder combo player.
I made the post below 2 and a half months ago and Jokic has only gotten better.
MJ (1988-1993): 30.3 PER, 59.3 TS%, .288 WS/48, 11.2 BPM (8.5 OBPM, 2.8 DBPM)
Jokic (2020-November 2025): 31.6, 66.3 TS%, .301 WS/48, 13 BPM (9 OBPM, 4 DBPM)
His peak has already surpassed other peaks like Bird, Magic, Curry, Kobe & Duncan. You can make an argument for top 5 peak ever. This is how good he is.
MJ
LeBron
Shaq
Hakeem
Kareem
In terms of peak play. I would say Jokic is right with some of those guys.
-
01-24-2025, 01:48 PM
#133
Lol
Re: I still think Jokic is underrated
He hasn't surpassed Curry, simply does not warp the offense in the same way. No one does, and I'm a LeBron guy.
-
01-24-2025, 01:49 PM
#134
Re: I still think Jokic is underrated
 Originally Posted by 1987_Lakers
His peak has already surpassed other peaks like Bird, Magic, Curry, Kobe & Duncan. You can make an argument for top 5 peak ever. This is how good he is.
MJ
LeBron
Shaq
Hakeem
Kareem
In terms of peak play. I would say Jokic is right with some of those guys.
Actually based on the data we have, only MJ and Lebron have the impact stats that are potentially better than Jokic's. So an argument can be made that Jokic has a top 3 peak of all time.
Of course the complication comes in when factoring in everyone played in different eras, with different rules, different expectations, different teams, different contracts/free agency, etc. How are we supposed to truly compare Jokic's peak to Duncan/Shaq's peaks when they played in the slowest, most court-clogged era EVER, compared to Jokic who plays in the most wide open era ever with the most player freedom ever? We honestly can't do it.
I'm just willing to put Jokic as a top 5 player ever since the 3-point inception (1980), and Jokic is the clear "GOAT" of this most recent era (2020-now). Give me MJ, Shaq, Duncan, Lebron, Jokic as top 5.
-
01-24-2025, 01:55 PM
#135
NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: I still think Jokic is underrated
 Originally Posted by RRR3
He hasn't surpassed Curry, simply does not warp the offense in the same way. No one does, and I'm a LeBron guy.
Curry's play in the postseason for me is what turns me off. The fact that he is mostly a shooter (granted not only a shooter), he is bound to go cold at times, you saw it time and time again in the playoffs. While Jokic's play translates very well into the postseason. Jokic is also a superior playmaker, one of the best rebounders in the league, & a more impactful defender. The fact that he was able to revive Westbrook's career alone should tell you how good he is, nobody saw that coming.
Posting Permissions
- You may not post new threads
- You may not post replies
- You may not post attachments
- You may not edit your posts
-
Forum Rules
|