LeBron is the greatest scorer + playmaker ever

[ArbitraryWater]

While I do agree that LeBron is the better passer, their playmaking skills are much closer. In addition, as the league adapts to more three point shooting, it became much easier to get assists, especially when LeBron assumed the PG role like he did in 2020.

RS LeBron '04-'14: 6.9 APG
PS LeBron '04-'14: 6.4 APG

RS LeBron '15-'23: 8.0 APG
PS LeBron '15-'23: 8.3 APG

There's obviously a big difference here in assist numbers. LeBron's first 10 years look at lot more like MJ's, particularly if we compare peaks.

RS LeBron '09-'14: 7.1 APG
PS LeBron '09-'14: 6.1 APG
FS LeBron '09-'14: 6.4 APG

RS MJ '88-'93: 6.2 APG
PS MJ '88-'93: 6.6 APG
FS MJ '88-'93: 7.9 APG

One might argue that LeBron's role was different in the Miami days, and I'd agree. It really is about roles. That is to say, if you put MJ in more of a facilitator role, then the end result is likely similar i.e., more assists. Furthermore, LeBron averaged 6.8 APG in the finals of '07, so it's all similar.

One might argue that LeBron was in his offensive peak in 2017 and 2018. I don't believe this to be the case. I just think he looked to pass more. For example, the league's pace was steadily increasing, yet 2017 was LeBron's 3rd lowest FGA per game in his 20 season career. And to no surprise, his three highest APG seasons have all come since 2015, namely 2017, 2018, and 2020 (when he played PG).

I do think LeBron's court vision is superior, but generally as a playmaker, I believe they were much more comparable and it's really recency bias that has people thinking LeBron is above and beyond.

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he scored more than ever those 2 combined years

[HoopsNY]

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he scored more than ever those 2 combined years

I was referring to the regular season. But you're not wrong about the postseason. Still, I think the offensive explosion we saw since 2015 contributes to it all.

[ArbitraryWater]

I was referring to the regular season. But you're not wrong about the postseason. Still, I think the offensive explosion we saw since 2015 contributes to it all.

No chance, man.

If you watch film of 2017 / 2018 eBron, he simply was a more fluent and better shooting version than he ever was before, and he still had all the spryness and agility. Much more of it than now.










same haf court aggression and much better shooting

[HoopsNY]

No chance, man.

If you watch film of 2017 / 2018 eBron, he simply was a more fluent and better shooting version than he ever was before, and he still had all the spryness and agility. Much more of it than now.










same haf court aggression and much better shooting

I'm not so sure about that. Compare say, 2012, 2013, and 2014 to 2017-2018...

LeBron '12-'14: 56% FG% | 39% 3P% | 76% FTH%
LeBron '17-'18: 55% FG% | 37% 3P% | 70% FTH%

Look at the numbers by distance from 10-16 ft, 16-29 ft, and 3P...

'12-'14: 44/40/39
'17-'18: 43/34/37

Seems he was better across the board earlier on in his career (peak years) than later on where the defensive intensity decreased and more shooting occurred.

[SouBeachTalents]

I'm not so sure about that. Compare say, 2012, 2013, and 2014 to 2017-2018...

LeBron '12-'14: 56% FG% | 39% 3P% | 76% FTH%
LeBron '17-'18: 55% FG% | 37% 3P% | 70% FTH%

Look at the numbers by distance from 10-16 ft, 16-29 ft, and 3P...

'12-'14: 44/40/39
'17-'18: 43/34/37

Seems he was better across the board earlier on in his career (peak years) than later on where the defensive intensity decreased and more shooting occurred.

Playoff wise though, LeBron legitimately couldn't shoot 3's throughout the 2012 title run, and was having an atrocious shooting series until Game 7 in 2013, with Pop literally having defenders sag off him daring him to shoot the entire Finals, a mostly effective strategy through 6 games. His shooting was unquestionably better in the 2017 & 2018 playoffs than it was those 2 years, though I understand the playoffs are obviously a smaller sample size, and the game became much more offensively friendly by 2017.

[ArbitraryWater]

I'm not so sure about that. Compare say, 2012, 2013, and 2014 to 2017-2018...

LeBron '12-'14: 56% FG% | 39% 3P% | 76% FTH%
LeBron '17-'18: 55% FG% | 37% 3P% | 70% FTH%

Look at the numbers by distance from 10-16 ft, 16-29 ft, and 3P...

'12-'14: 44/40/39
'17-'18: 43/34/37

Seems he was better across the board earlier on in his career (peak years) than later on where the defensive intensity decreased and more shooting occurred.

LeBron barey took a 3 in 2012 in the reguar season and in the finals almost no shots outside of 5 feet, was unreliabe in 2013 against the Bulls and the Spurs.

Ony 2014 matches up shooting wise.

[8Ball]

Not saying he's the greatest pure scorer ever or the greatest pure playmaker ever. But if you combine scoring and playmaking, he's easily the best

Soon to be 1st all-time in scoring

4th all-time in assists

Just some normal king things

Offensively, the best are:

1) LeBron
2) Luka
3) Jokic
4) Larry Bird

These players are elite at scoring and playmaking.

Honourable mention is James Harden.



If Luka took the time to unslob his body and become an elite athlete, he may be better than Bron offensively.

[bizil]

You could certainly say Bron has that crown. You GOTTA be legit a great scorer and great passer for your position. Some of these guys are score first. Some are pass first. Some guys like Bird seem to be LITERALLY neither score first or pass first. But for me, a solid top 10 would be: (no particular order)

Bron
Oscar
Magic
Bird
Isiah
MJ
Joker
Harden
Luka
Jerry West

I had to include MJ (ultimate score first assassin) because he PROVED he could average 30 PPG and 8 APG in a season. That's where MJ was taking his game. The evolution of Pip meant could focus more on scoring. And allow Pip (a pass first point forward redefining the SF spot) to be the to dime dropper for the Bulls.