Baseball

[RRR3]

No..no I’m not. You said it yourself that they are made for future success. But the predictive nature of them isn’t confined to 50, 100, or 162 games. It’s just a general note to be made on what someone’s performance is.

Great players play multiple thousand games and sometimes 150 doesn’t indicate everything unless you look at other factors (I.e exit velocity or BABIP or FIP for a pitcher).

Even though the season is over, is one players predictive numbers are outmatched then if everything else is equal you can point to that and say that maybe he had a little less luck.

If someone consistently outplays or underplays their advanced metrics then that’s a conversation. But that isn’t the case here.

Acuna has played 8 more games than Betts, on a per game basis Betts is outproducing him by a decent amount in fWAR (best WAR for position players). Availability is also part of value, so I'm fine if you want to hold that against Betts but Acuna has not been a better player when they actually both play. It's very close and there's still time left anyways, but I will never reward a player for hypotheticals when discussing an award for what actually happened. If someone was more valuable, they were more valuable even if the difference is marginal.

[ShawkFactory]

Acuna has played 8 more games than Betts, on a per game basis Betts is outproducing him by a decent amount in fWAR (best WAR for position players). Availability is also part of value, so I'm fine if you want to hold that against Betts but Acuna has not been a better player when they actually both play. It's very close and there's still time left anyways, but I will never reward a player for hypotheticals when discussing an award for what actually happened. If someone was more valuable, they were more valuable even if the difference is marginal.

I know that WAR is important but I don't really like putting every single aspect of baseball analysis into just that. Like any statistic there are inevitably things that it will miss. It's especially strange to have this conversation when that number will be pretty much even after tonight. I'll say it again but 0.2 WAR, which will probably be Mookie's lead, is literally a 2-4 game with a home run and a double. Not really into calling an MVP based on something that can and does happen in one game.

The marginal difference is even more negligible when the other guy is having a historic season. Only Bonds has had a higher OPS in a 40/40 season and he was 42/40. Not 42/71 (generously projecting the end game numbers).

Also..not that it makes too much of a difference but Mookie having perhaps the best hitter in baseball behind him helps him too. WAR doesn't account for that. Nor does it include runners who don't consider going 1st to 3rd or tagging from 2nd to 3rd because of Acuna's arm. An easy play that might go differently if it was someone isn't considered at all. DWAR is more activity and zone related than the mental part of it.

I know you've never played baseball but the mental part of the game? Very important. Acuna being on 1st making a pitcher (especially an inexperienced one) shit himself isn't accounted for by WAR either.

[Patrick Chewing]

Acuñas arm is 10x better than Mookie's too. Running on Acuña to third or trying to extend a single into a double is a mistake.

[imdaman99]

Hate the braves and how stacked they are. That being said, Acuña's won already

I'll have to root for him underachieving against good pitching in the playoffs again

[RRR3]

Another Strider meltdown, to the Nationals of all people. The man simply can't avoid the big inning. Lacks the composure Snell has.

[RRR3]

I know that WAR is important but I don't really like putting every single aspect of baseball analysis into just that. Like any statistic there are inevitably things that it will miss. It's especially strange to have this conversation when that number will be pretty much even after tonight. I'll say it again but 0.2 WAR, which will probably be Mookie's lead, is literally a 2-4 game with a home run and a double. Not really into calling an MVP based on something that can and does happen in one game.

The marginal difference is even more negligible when the other guy is having a historic season. Only Bonds has had a higher OPS in a 40/40 season and he was 42/40. Not 42/71 (generously projecting the end game numbers).

Also..not that it makes too much of a difference but Mookie having perhaps the best hitter in baseball behind him helps him too. WAR doesn't account for that. Nor does it include runners who don't consider going 1st to 3rd or tagging from 2nd to 3rd because of Acuna's arm. An easy play that might go differently if it was someone isn't considered at all. DWAR is more activity and zone related than the mental part of it.

I know you've never played baseball but the mental part of the game? Very important. Acuna being on 1st making a pitcher (especially an inexperienced one) shit himself isn't accounted for by WAR either.

This is why everyone is sick of Acuna stans. Never played baseball? I played for years as a kid stop acting like you know my life just cuz you're mad I think Mookie is better.

[ShawkFactory]

This is why everyone is sick of Acuna stans. Never played baseball? I played for years as a kid stop acting like you know my life just cuz you're mad I think Mookie is better.

Sorry to condescend, I didn't really mean it that way. I just think you're missing a part of the conversation by solely using WAR.

I'm also not an Acuna stan really. I've been a diehard Braves fan since before I could walk. Andruw Jones was my hero but I was always team first. Still am.

He's probably the most talented player I've seen come through here though, and I'll just go to bat for my guys is all.

[Patrick Chewing]

You fell for it, Shawk. Shame on you. RRR3 has never played a sport in his life.

[RRR3]

Sorry to condescend, I didn't really mean it that way. I just think you're missing a part of the conversation by solely using WAR.

I'm also not an Acuna stan really. I've been a diehard Braves fan since before I could walk. Andruw Jones was my hero but I was always team first. Still am.

He's probably the most talented player I've seen come through here though, and I'll just go to bat for my guys is all.

It's fine. I hated Andruw Jones just because he always got way more attention than Jim Edmonds (my favorite player) despite being at best an equal value player during the early 2000s Even carried over to HOF balloting

[RRR3]

Blub a dub dub I'm an angry tub

The adults are talking, fats, take your tantrums elsewhere.

[Patrick Chewing]

The adults are talking, fats, take your tantrums elsewhere.

You said that playing baseball as a kid makes you knowledgeable on baseball. Did you really say that?

Because you played Tee Ball??

[ShawkFactory]

It's fine. I hated Andruw Jones just because he always got way more attention than Jim Edmonds (my favorite player) despite being at best an equal value player during the early 2000s Even carried over to HOF balloting

Edmonds was definitely a better hitter but I always got annoyed when cardinals fans thought he was on Andruw’s level defensively.

Went to a Braves/cards game at Busch stadium on 06 I believe and they were fully of the opinion that “Jimmy” was that guy in the field. Yea…no.

[RRR3]

Edmonds was definitely a better hitter but I always got annoyed when cardinals fans thought he was on Andruw’s level defensively.

Went to a Braves/cards game at Busch stadium on 06 I believe and they were fully of the opinion that “Jimmy” was that guy in the field. Yea…no.

Defensive stats weren't a thing back then and we still don't have the best data from before the statcast era but yeah Jones rates out as pretty unrivaled there, although Edmonds overall value was similar. I generally hear fangraphs WAR is best for position players, and Edmonds stacks up well with most players you can think of in fWAR, especially in his prime. Here's a graphic I made that shows how he stacks up to a lot of players in his general fWAR range, and many of them are or will be HOFers. He was top 10 in position player fWAR every season from 2002-2005 btw, which I think is very notable. I also think 2004 Edmonds is better than anything Jones ever did tbh. I'm hoping he gets in on veteran committee, I can name a ton of HOFers he was a better player than. Wish he had been able to play one more year to get 400 homers and 2000 hits that would have helped (although I think it's irrelevant).

[Patrick Chewing]

I have absolutely no confidence in this Braves team going into the post-season. AA's dereliction in getting team another bona fide starter at the deadline is coming back to haunt this team. I don't give a good golly gee damn that they came back and beat the Cubs tonight. **** the Cubs. But Elder is trash, Wright is trash, Schuster and Dodd are trash and Fried and Morton are hurt. Sure, they'll be back by the first series in the playoffs, but if this team expects to out-slug their opponents every night, they're in for a rude awakening.

[ShawkFactory]

Acuna with 40/70! What a damn talent coming to fruition. Game tying hit and scoring the winning run doesn’t hurt.

Low key kind of want the Cubs in the playoffs though. If the Braves were gone the Cubs would be my team. Love Wrigley, the fans and the organization. Would have been okay with a loss tonight having already clinched everything.

Looks like Strider and Fried game 1 and 2 so we look okay going in.