Undeniable Truths About Tim Duncan

[Wardell Curry]

Uncle Timmy might just be the actual goat.

[tpols]

And if Duncan had a Shaq like personality demanding to be fed instead of happily allowing the team to transition to an everybody eats motion offense in his late 20s when he was still this guy at 38:







any chance that great passing team of unselfish team first confident role players and young stars doesn’t develop that way?

Duncan's unselfishness is one of his best attributes. Doesn't take away from the team balling offensively and breaking Finals records when his offense was no longer even all star level.

[Kblaze8855]

Not shooting much and not having all star level offense aren’t really the same thing to me. He put up 15/10 on 57% shooting that last finals. They won 4 blowouts with exquisite team ball and defense.

He no doubt had the clout to ask for another shot or two in the blowouts. Pop would absolutely have called the plays to get him the ball if he wanted it. Nobody on that team looks him off when Tim says “Get me the ball”.

Would his offense be all star level if he made a couple extra layups his team didn’t need to win those blowouts?

Or was his offense just playing in sync with the young players his nature allowed to flourish?

[ImKobe]

He played at the 5 full-time since '09 and played at Center more than at PF in his prime as well. Even if you want to make that argument, prime KG was just as good and would have had the same career as TD had he been in his place in San Antonio instead of wasting his prime in Minnesota. KG won a DPOY and 4x rebounding titles and actually played at the 4 for 67% of his career compared to 36% for Duncan and was far more versatile on both ends of the court.

KB was voted by far the best player of the 2000s and smacked him around in the POs 4 out of 5 times in that decade.

Never won B2B titles (thank Kobe & Ray Allen for that one)

Won Finals MVP averaging 20.6 ppg on 47%TS (Manu was the real MVP & bailed them out) in '05

Lost in the 1st round as a #1 seed on a 61-win team and he was the main reason for that loss (Manu played with a broken arm but was still great offensively, TD got shut down bad and abused on the other end).

Was drafted to a team with prime D-Rob (instant contenders, Spurs tanked a season for him but were a 50-60-win team for most of the 90s with D-Rob), got Manu & TP once Robinson was washed, got Kawhi, Diaw, Green etc once Manu & TP fell off

Spurs still had the #1 defense and still won 61 games when he retired. Spurs continued their Playoffs streak without him & Kawhi. Spurs in '17 were in the WCF and up 20+ on the undefeated KD-Curry GS squad before Kawhi's injury without Duncan.

He's a top 10 ATG due to team success but gets vastly overrated by people who either hate KB or by people who haven't seen enough of his prime years.

[Spurs m8]

Definitely ahead of LeFraud

LeFraud might just crack top 10...maybe

[tpols]

Not shooting much and not having all star level offense aren’t really the same thing to me. He put up 15/10 on 57% shooting that last finals. They won 4 blowouts with exquisite team ball and defense.

He no doubt had the clout to ask for another shot or two in the blowouts. Pop would absolutely have called the plays to get him the ball if he wanted it. Nobody on that team looks him off when Tim says “Get me the ball”.

Would his offense be all star level if he made a couple extra layups his team didn’t need to win those blowouts?

Or was his offense just playing in sync with the young players his nature allowed to flourish?

He just...wasn't a dominant offensive player at all when the spurs offense was at arguably its peak. I get what you're saying but he just wasn't the reason for it. It was a coaching and team effort that made those 3pt centric offenses so good.

[ShawkFactory]

He played at the 5 full-time since '09 and played at Center more than at PF in his prime as well. Even if you want to make that argument, prime KG was just as good and would have had the same career as TD had he been in his place in San Antonio instead of wasting his prime in Minnesota. KG won a DPOY and 4x rebounding titles and actually played at the 4 for 67% of his career compared to 36% for Duncan and was far more versatile on both ends of the court.

KB was voted by far the best player of the 2000s and smacked him around in the POs 4 out of 5 times in that decade.

Never won B2B titles (thank Kobe & Ray Allen for that one)

Won Finals MVP averaging 20.6 ppg on 47%TS (Manu was the real MVP & bailed them out) in '05

Lost in the 1st round as a #1 seed on a 61-win team and he was the main reason for that loss (Manu played with a broken arm but was still great offensively, TD got shut down bad and abused on the other end).

Was drafted to a team with prime D-Rob (instant contenders, Spurs tanked a season for him but were a 50-60-win team for most of the 90s with D-Rob), got Manu & TP once Robinson was washed, got Kawhi, Diaw, Green etc once Manu & TP fell off

Spurs still had the #1 defense and still won 61 games when he retired. Spurs continued their Playoffs streak without him & Kawhi. Spurs in '17 were in the WCF and up 20+ on the undefeated KD-Curry GS squad before Kawhi's injury without Duncan.

He's a top 10 ATG due to team success but gets vastly overrated by people who either hate KB or by people who haven't seen enough of his prime years.

Loving Duncan as a player has nothing to do with Kobe. It’s actually the opposite of what you say.

The only people who hate on Duncan at all or underrate him are Kobe fans. Case in point here.

[DMAVS41]

He just...wasn't a dominant offensive player at all when the spurs offense was at arguably its peak. I get what you're saying but he just wasn't the reason for it. It was a coaching and team effort that made those 3pt centric offenses so good.

He wasn't as dominant offensively, for sure, but I think the point he's making is that Duncan could have easily averaged like 22 to 24 a game if he set out to do that like a lot of other stars do. That is what gets hard with stats as players age a little...sometimes the stats lie a bit because truly all-time greats can go get 25 a game really on command...they just might hurt the team in the process.

Duncan, like many stars before him, could have focused more on his stats...played a little less defense...been a little more selfish...and averaged 20 plus a game post the 07 season. He didn't...and I don't think that makes him worse...especially when his defense remained elite so late in his career.

Duncan, for me, was the best player post Jordan until Lebron hit his prime/peak...and still doesn't get enough credit on a lot of lists imo.

[tpols]

He wasn't as dominant offensively, for sure, but I think the point he's making is that Duncan could have easily averaged like 22 to 24 a game if he set out to do that like a lot of other stars do. That is what gets hard with stats as players age a little...sometimes the stats lie a bit because truly all-time greats can go get 25 a game really on command...they just might hurt the team in the process.

Duncan, like many stars before him, could have focused more on his stats...played a little less defense...been a little more selfish...and averaged 20 plus a game post the 07 season. He didn't...and I don't think that makes him worse...especially when his defense remained elite so late in his career.

Duncan, for me, was the best player post Jordan until Lebron hit his prime/peak...and still doesn't get enough credit on a lot of lists imo.

I dont know about 24 a game but I get what you guys are saying. Given how explosive their 3pt shooting was I think Duncan taking all those extra shots would actually hurt the team. So his unselfishness was very valuable. Doesn't take away from what those shooters actually did though. Danny Green and steph curry are the all time leaders in 3pt makes for a finals series.

[ImKobe]

Loving Duncan as a player has nothing to do with Kobe. It’s actually the opposite of what you say.

The only people who hate on Duncan at all or underrate him are Kobe fans. Case in point here.

Lakers/KB fans who went through that rivalry still hate the Spurs & TD to an extent so you're not completely wrong on that one, but it goes both ways.

[baudkarma]

Not shooting much and not having all star level offense aren’t really the same thing to me. He put up 15/10 on 57% shooting that last finals. They won 4 blowouts with exquisite team ball and defense.

He no doubt had the clout to ask for another shot or two in the blowouts. Pop would absolutely have called the plays to get him the ball if he wanted it. Nobody on that team looks him off when Tim says “Get me the ball”.

Would his offense be all star level if he made a couple extra layups his team didn’t need to win those blowouts?

Or was his offense just playing in sync with the young players his nature allowed to flourish?

I read something in the 1999 SI issue where Duncan and DRob were named "Sportsmen of the Year" that struck a chord.

The author of the article said that Duncan wants to win because he wants to win. Which is not as obvious as it seems. All athletes want to win, but often there are underlying motives. They might want that big contract to set them up for life. They might want the victory parade. They might want that ring. They might want the approval of their father or their uncle or their big brother who said they'd never be good enough. The point is that once they get that contract, that ring, whatever, the drive to succeed diminishes a little. The author posited that Duncan is one of those rare individuals who wants to win just because he wants to win. If that means giving up touches to his teammates, if it means conserving his energy on offense so he can shut down the other teams best player on the other end (2007) he's not even going to think twice about it.

[Nowitness]

Lakers/KB fans who went through that rivalry still hate the Spurs & TD to an extent so you're not completely wrong on that one, but it goes both ways.

Not really. I believe Duncan clears Kobe but I get opposite arguments, but you know full well there isn’t a soul out there who is hysterical about Duncan. A good amount of Kobes fans are enamoured with the dude and lack the cognitive skills to engage in real discussion about him, instead resorting to mythology, iconography and narrative to boost his all time rankings. They actually believe he is the GOAT and will claim it’s justified because he worked hard and because people yell Kobe when they throw something in a trash can. Duncan doesn’t have that.

[fourkicks44]

Not really. I believe Duncan clears Kobe but I get opposite arguments, but you know full well there isn’t a soul out there who is hysterical about Duncan. A good amount of Kobes fans are enamoured with the dude and lack the cognitive skills to engage in real discussion about him, instead resorting to mythology, iconography and narrative to boost his all time rankings. They actually believe he is the GOAT and will claim it’s justified because he worked hard and because people yell Kobe when they throw something in a trash can. Duncan doesn’t have that.

I yell Duncan when I throw something in the trash can when it hits the wall first and then goes in.

[tpols]

Not really. I believe Duncan clears Kobe but I get opposite arguments, but you know full well there isn’t a soul out there who is hysterical about Duncan. A good amount of Kobes fans are enamoured with the dude and lack the cognitive skills to engage in real discussion about him, instead resorting to mythology, iconography and narrative to boost his all time rankings. They actually believe he is the GOAT and will claim it’s justified because he worked hard and because people yell Kobe when they throw something in a trash can. Duncan doesn’t have that.

For all kobes greediness in old age as compared to Duncan, his offensive peak was demonstrably higher. You guys want to talk Duncan being unselfish. How'd that work out in 2008 or 2001? When kobe obliterated him with his offense prime for prime?

Probably should've taken some extra shots if he was that good at it. His offense was never GOAT level though. His defense and intangibles were.

[FKAri]

Not really. I believe Duncan clears Kobe but I get opposite arguments, but you know full well there isn’t a soul out there who is hysterical about Duncan. A good amount of Kobes fans are enamoured with the dude and lack the cognitive skills to engage in real discussion about him, instead resorting to mythology, iconography and narrative to boost his all time rankings. They actually believe he is the GOAT and will claim it’s justified because he worked hard and because people yell Kobe when they throw something in a trash can. Duncan doesn’t have that.

Ya this is where the on court capabilities of a player gets blurred by the entertainment aspect of sports. Kobe elicited more emotion and captured the imagination of more fans. I think the two are roughly the same tier player but I can admit at least that.