Why I don't blame Pippen for his views on Jordan and the Bulls.

[3ba11]

diminished Pippen by mentioning how untough he was and also the migrane game.

In order to tell an accurate historical account, The Last Dance needed to tell the story of Pippen being a choker and arguably the biggest choker in NBA history (the most legendary chokes and meltdowns).


The beginner foul choke ("never foul a jumpshooter"):






THE GOAT MELTDOWN:






WORST-EVER CLUTCH






^^^^ Pippen was historically embarrassed without MJ.

Let's not forget that Pippen's "migraine" in 1990 prevented one of the biggest upsets in history and Jordan's 1st title.. Pippen also has many bricks and turnovers with the game on the line like his 2 missed FT's before Miller's legendary winner in 98' ECF or the 99' 1st Round blunder with Houston and many more.

And no... He wasn't tough because x-man BULLIED pippen in the 92' 2nd Round, which nearly caused an upset loss and required MJ to step in during Game 7 to confront X-Man and prevent another "migraine".. Pippen was choking in Game 7 all over again but MJ stopped it - being the enforcer for Pippen was part of MJ's organic learning curve.





#carried

[97 bulls]

Jordan is a dickhead. But Pippen needs to be the bigger man. Jordan acknowledged his contributions in the last dance.

I disagree. There were far more moments I think Jordan intentionally left out

The Bulls coming back in the 4th quarter vs Portland. Because Jordan was on the bench.

Rodmans record breaking rebounding in the 96 Finals vs the Sonics. Because it didn't bring glory to MJ

Pippens game saving blocks on Smith. Because too much credit would've gone to Pippen

The Bulls 15 point comeback vs the Jazz in 97. Because once again, Jordan was on the bench.

Pippens game saving steal to seal the 97 Championship. Because Jordan had nothing to do with it.

[3ba11]

I disagree. There were far more moments I think Jordan intentionally left out

The Bulls coming back in the 4th quarter vs Portland. Because Jordan was on the bench.

Rodmans record breaking rebounding in the 96 Finals vs the Sonics. Because it didn't bring glory to MJ

Pippens game saving blocks on Smith. Because too much credit would've gone to Pippen

The Bulls 15 point comeback vs the Jazz in 97. Because once again, Jordan was on the bench.

Pippens game saving steal to seal the 97 Championship. Because Jordan had nothing to do with it.

In the 92' Finals, Jordan re-entered the game with 7 minutes left and the Bulls still down - he proceeded to hit nearly every shot down the stretch to win the game - so he couldn't cover this in the doc without adding more episodes.

And no one ever covered the other crap you mentioned because some of it didn't happen like the blocks on Smith where Jordan and Grant were involved and Jordan had 3 game-winning plays in 97' Finals while Pippen had a horrific series that included 4 points when games were tight down the stretch (clutch-time)

Of course, Rodman averaged 3/8 in the 97' Playoffs and wasn't the starter for the 98 Playoffs, so everyone knew that Rodman was a fossil and everyone also knew that Jordan only needed role play from the PF after 3-peating with 12/8 from Horace

[Micku]

I dont think its similar. According to Pippen, he felt disrespected and thus wasn't gonna go above and beyond for an organization that wasn't going above and beyond for him. How this doesn't make sense is beyond me. I said before, Pippen had no more obligation to have the surgery and rehab in the offseason than the Bulls had the obligation to redo his contract. But people somehow see Pippen as the bad guy. Including Jordan. Jordan could have stated something along the lines that he wished Pippen had the surgery and rehabbed in the offseason, but under the circumstances, you know, playing on that injured foot, the team not wanting to renegotiate his contract, the trade talk for a player that had been loyal, he understood. Jordan sided with management.

I don't know why it doesn't make sense. From MJ perspective, you got a job to do. You want to give it your all and be ready as much as you can. Even with issues with management. Kobe would've had that problem since Shaq choose to rehab during company time. Lots of ppl dislike that. It doesn't make Pippen the bad guy or anything, but ppl won't take his side. MJ wanted Pippen on the team.

See, I just can't vibe with this double standard. Why is Pippen obligated to take the high road in every situation? The Bulls weren't obligated to redo his contract and he wasn't obligated to have surgery on his free time. But Pippen is the only one wrong? Many players have called Jackson a racist. Robert Horry, Kwame Brown to name a few. I agree Pippen's decision to not go back in the game was the wrong l, but I see why he did it. I would have been hurt if the coach I've been in the trenches with, and know what I've been able to do and what I've contributed to 3 championships, draws up the final play for the rookie. But again, Jordan sided with management here. He once again felt that Pippen should've stayed quiet. And you question him being a team player? How is this for a team player? Toni Kukoc comes in as Pippens replacement, Jerry Krauses boy. Hes signed for more money than Pippen was making even though Pippens proven his worth. Pippen has the option to treat him a certain way. But instead, Pippen TAKES KUKOC UNDER HIS WING. He never was mean to Kukoc.

I don't know about Kwame Brown. But unless he said otherwise, Horry specifically said Phil isn't a racist. But he had to check him.

"I’ve played for Phil. I don’t think Phil is racist," Horry said. "He’s said some stuff before that kind of, I had to check him on it. For me, I don’t think he’s racist."

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/...a1qs3kyfiof6ga

And Horry had a story that hints that Phil could've been a racist. Pippen was mad that he didn't take the last shot, and that made Phil a racist in his eyes. It was a dumb reason and that's not going to get the masses to his call. And yeah, he contributed to 3 championships. But was the guy to make that shot? And he had moments where he could make the clutch shots down the stretch. It's wild to call yourself a team player and get pissed that you don't take the final shot because you feel like you earned instead of focusing on the win instead. Like it's okay to say that you wanted it. And at that moment, you want to seek that you can prove it without MJ. Magic said something similar without Kareem, and Kobe without Shaq. But Pippen was complaining about it while at the same time calling himself he is all about the team. There is hypocrisy right there. He has reflected and said he was wrong in that regard, and then switch back and say he wanted it and called Phil a racist. And, he still wanted to work with Phil even after that in 2005, when he wanted to join Phil staff as a special assistant for the Lakers.

What Jordan did in that documentary was explain away his being an asshole to his teammates. All under the guise that he wanted to win sooooo bad. The key moments he allowed in there were all a way to bring tribute to him. He intentionally left out anything the Bulls did that didn't bring glory to his name. Jordan even explained Pippen's taking over the team in 94 and 95 as more of Pippen having to see how hard he (Jordan) had it. SMH. More time was given to that 1.8 seconds situation than anything else.


I keep hearing this. So how should he have handled it? Just take it on the chin? Nobody came to Pippens defense even months after the Last Dance outside of his teammates.

I don't know how many assholes they are when they are at the top. But we do focus on MJ. But Shaq was a dude who fought in a fistfight with a teenager (probably) in Kobe. Hakeem would slap people across the face, especially before he became muslim. Kobe made people cry. And they all said they did it to bring the best out of their teammates. I'm not saying this is the right way to do it, but it is one of many ways. We know MJ because its the most well-known. We probably don't know everything that Kobe and Shaq went through, what Jimmy Butler went through, Hakeem, and etc. We do know that Tim Duncan and the Spurs were pretty chill except for the Tony Parker wife thing.

And I don't know whether it didn't leave MJ in a bad light. He did gamble, he was obsessive and he was an ass. He showed his bad traits. And yeah, it talked about Pippen in 94 and 95. But it talked about MJ before Pippen got there. It talked about Rodman before he got to the Bulls too. It showed Rodman in all of his controversial stuff. It showed MJ in his controversial stuff. Yet Pippen is the one who complains about it? And besides, it did not show anything that any hardcore b-ball fan didn't already know. It was already out there.

And Pippen could've done it in a much better light in saying his perspective. I'm sure you and everyone else would see the talking heads in the media and the fans dismiss Pippen as being whiny, mad over minor reasons, and his lashing out isn't getting ppl to his side. MJ always gave Pippen his props. He could've straight up said, "I know the The Last Dance told you this. But there are other details that are missing. This is what made the team great and you can see things from my perspective." Be professional about it. But they may have as much attention or made as much money as what he is doing now.

Regardless, what he is doing isn't gathering ppl to his side. Some ppl are listening to what he has to say and laugh about it because of the context. That is something he would have to improve on. It isn't going to happen tho. And this version is more entertaining for sure, but I don't expect the talking heads would agree with Pippen side.

[Micku]

I disagree. There were far more moments I think Jordan intentionally left out

The Bulls coming back in the 4th quarter vs Portland. Because Jordan was on the bench.

Rodmans record breaking rebounding in the 96 Finals vs the Sonics. Because it didn't bring glory to MJ

Pippens game saving blocks on Smith. Because too much credit would've gone to Pippen

The Bulls 15 point comeback vs the Jazz in 97. Because once again, Jordan was on the bench.

Pippens game saving steal to seal the 97 Championship. Because Jordan had nothing to do with it.

They didn't talk about Cliff Levingston help defense either in 91, which was amazing.

They didn't talk about Rodman defense on Shaq.

They didn't talk about Luc Longley.

But they also didn't think about MJ scoring like 15-20 pts in the clutch in 1989 against the Cavs. They talk about the game winner, but not the details of it. Hell, no one really mention how impressive that 89 run was in detail.

They didn't talk about how good of a job MJ did on defending Cylde Drexler.

I don't remember if they talked about the good defense Pippen did on Mark Jackson? I legit forgot.

We talk about how good MJ was, they don't talk about the details in the actual game plan. I think the Knicks straight up tried not to toss the ball or run their actions where ever MJ side was. They talk about how the shot creation overall nor the low turnovers. Dude created like 15 open shots in one game for his teammates while scoring 39 pts 1992 Finals and that was more than the entire 2014 playoffs.

The documentary did show how good of a player MJ was but not in detail. Not in detail at all. Dude doing things that were insane and this was before all of the advanced stats started.
The Bulls were insane too tho, more than just MJ. They were a great team. The best in their respective era. From the coaching staff to most of the teammates that they have, they were really great. And they weren't the most talented team either.

But the documentary itself wasn't Kobe's "detailed" series for hardcore b-ball fans.

It really could've talked about how good the Bulls were from a basketball standpoint and really show why MJ was the best player. It wasn't that type of documentary and you'll never get that from a mainstream format. It didn't even describe the triangle in detail if I can recall.

[97 bulls]

I don't know why it doesn't make sense. From MJ perspective, you got a job to do. You want to give it your all and be ready as much as you can. Even with issues with management. Kobe would've had that problem since Shaq choose to rehab during company time. Lots of ppl dislike that. It doesn't make Pippen the bad guy or anything, but ppl won't take his side. MJ wanted Pippen on the team.

It doesn't make sense because the whole argument centers around obligation. You said yourself that it was Pippens fault he signed that contract right? So the Bulls had no obligation to redo it. Neither did Pippen when it comes to the rehabilitation of his foot. Again, the Shaq situation wasn't the same because at that time, Shaq wasn't being disrespected by the Lakers. So to sum it up, neither Scottie Pippen nor the Chicago Bulls had any legal obligation to do what's best for the team. Why is the blame only going one way? Jordan blamed Pippen. What's more, is he abandoned the team in 94. So he's in no position to talk. I don't want to hear the logic that his father died because you're not giving Pippen any concessions here. Pippen has the right to do what's in the best interest of his family just like Jordan.

I don't know about Kwame Brown. But unless he said otherwise, Horry specifically said Phil isn't a racist. But he had to check him.


https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/...a1qs3kyfiof6ga

And Horry had a story that hints that Phil could've been a racist. Pippen was mad that he didn't take the last shot, and that made Phil a racist in his eyes. It was a dumb reason and that's not going to get the masses to his call. And yeah, he contributed to 3 championships. But was the guy to make that shot? And he had moments where he could make the clutch shots down the stretch. It's wild to call yourself a team player and get pissed that you don't take the final shot because you feel like you earned instead of focusing on the win instead. Like it's okay to say that you wanted it. And at that moment, you want to seek that you can prove it without MJ. Magic said something similar without Kareem, and Kobe without Shaq. But Pippen was complaining about it while at the same time calling himself he is all about the team. There is hypocrisy right there. He has reflected and said he was wrong in that regard, and then switch back and say he wanted it and called Phil a racist. And, he still wanted to work with Phil even after that in 2005, when he wanted to join Phil staff as a special assistant for the Lakers.

Again, I responded to this argument. That decison doesn't not make him a team player. He felt he was the best guy for the job. The only reason this is even an argument is because Kukoc made the shot. I do believe he should've went back in and handled the situation internally. Not going in wasn't the right decision. But he showed he was a team player by setting his personal issue with the way Kukoc was being propped over him and welcomed Kukoc in with open arms. Kukoc said Pippen was his favorite teammate.

I don't know how many assholes they are when they are at the top. But we do focus on MJ. But Shaq was a dude who fought in a fistfight with a teenager (probably) in Kobe. Hakeem would slap people across the face, especially before he became muslim. Kobe made people cry. And they all said they did it to bring the best out of their teammates. I'm not saying this is the right way to do it, but it is one of many ways. We know MJ because its the most well-known. We probably don't know everything that Kobe and Shaq went through, what Jimmy Butler went through, Hakeem, and etc. We do know that Tim Duncan and the Spurs were pretty chill except for the Tony Parker wife thing.

Bro. MJ being called an asshole by many is viewed as a compliment. They say it to say Jordan being that way is why they won. That's just excusing bad behavior. I hold the people that put up with that kind of behavior in high regard. There's no way I could be on the same team with a guy like that.

And I don't know whether it didn't leave MJ in a bad light. He did gamble, he was obsessive and he was an ass. He showed his bad traits. And yeah, it talked about Pippen in 94 and 95. But it talked about MJ before Pippen got there. It talked about Rodman before he got to the Bulls too. It showed Rodman in all of his controversial stuff. It showed MJ in his controversial stuff. Yet Pippen is the one who complains about it? And besides, it did not show anything that any hardcore b-ball fan didn't already know. It was already out there.

Pippen wasnt the only one that complained about it. Horace Grant, Craig Hodges, Ron Harper, Stacey King, also felt like Jordan was wrong for what he said in the Last Dance. And as i said in my other post to you Jordan expalined away his stuff. Or denied it. When he went to Atlanta during that series, he said he needed a break. That the media and leading the team was a heavy lead he had to bare. Rodman thrives off the negative. So im not surprised he didnt say anything. And Jordan didn't lobby any personal insults to Rodman. He insulted Pippen, Grant, and Thomas. PUBLICLY. And they publicly responded. We keep hearing about Pippen because Pippen is constantly asked about it. I bet before any interview that Jordan does, he makes the interviewer sign an NDA to not talk about what Pippen said.

And Pippen could've done it in a much better light in saying his perspective. I'm sure you and everyone else would see the talking heads in the media and the fans dismiss Pippen as being whiny, mad over minor reasons, and his lashing out isn't getting ppl to his side. MJ always gave Pippen his props. He could've straight up said, "I know the The Last Dance told you this. But there are other details that are missing. This is what made the team great and you can see things from my perspective." Be professional about it. But they may have as much attention or made as much money as what he is doing now.

How is Pippen whiney? He's being asked these questions. Hes not making random tweets and IG posts blasting MJ and the Bulls.

Regardless, what he is doing isn't gathering ppl to his side. Some ppl are listening to what he has to say and laugh about it because of the context. That is something he would have to improve on. It isn't going to happen tho. And this version is more entertaining for sure, but I don't expect the talking heads would agree with Pippen side.

True. Let me tell you what's gonna happen. All these biases and agendas will be exposed when a similar situation arises and they take the other side. Mark my words.

[kawhileonard2]

Damn Pippen out of the league in 3 years and therefore Jordan with no titles.

Different landscape for the NBA.

He made Pippen. He would have made anyone a better version of Pippen. Probably won 12 titles with someone else. Pippen had 2 points in a game 7 and went 1-10.

[Micku]

It doesn't make sense because the whole argument centers around obligation. You said yourself that it was Pippens fault he signed that contract right? So the Bulls had no obligation to redo it. Neither did Pippen when it comes to the rehabilitation of his foot. Again, the Shaq situation wasn't the same because at that time, Shaq wasn't being disrespected by the Lakers. So to sum it up, neither Scottie Pippen nor the Chicago Bulls had any legal obligation to do what's best for the team. Why is the blame only going one way? Jordan blamed Pippen. What's more, is he abandoned the team in 94.

I don't think it was an obligation per say from a legal standpoint. Afterall, he did it anyway. That was never the point. The point is, it rubbed some ppl the wrong way. And MJ didn't like it and expressed his opinions. As you said, Shaq wasn't being disrespected by the Lakers, so the reasoning why was different. But Kobe hated that and wanted him to put in the work like he did. MJ wanted Pippen there and expressed his thoughts on it. There is no bad/good guy here. Just MJ didn't like it. And Pippen didn't like that MJ didn't like it. That's that.

And I don't know what you are talking about abandoning the team. He "retired". Played another sport. Then he came back. It'll be one thing if he wanted a trade or something. He didn't do a James Harden and just quit on the team to get them to trade him.

Again, I responded to this argument. That decison doesn't not make him a team player. He felt he was the best guy for the job. The only reason this is even an argument is because Kukoc made the shot. I do believe he should've went back in and handled the situation internally. Not going in wasn't the right decision. But he showed he was a team player by setting his personal issue with the way Kukoc was being propped over him and welcomed Kukoc in with open arms.

I think it was more that he felt like he deserved to get the shot off than he felt like he was the best guy to do it. He probably thought he was in his head, but he felt disrespected. And he lashed out calling Phil a racist because of it, which was stupid. He even said himself that he felt like he deserved it because he did all the dirty work. That is being selfish.

And I'm not saying that's a bad thing. But him preaching about team ball is hypocritical because he wanted a selfish thing at that very moment. And he didn't let it go against Phil. He didn't reflect on the idea that he was being selfish at that moment. You could be a great team player and be selfish at those moments too. Many players comment on how great of a teammate Pippen is, including MJ lol! But that was a low moment for him and him talking about it and calling Phil a racist is even lower.

This is him rationalizing calling Phil a racist in his book:

“I was so hurt when he picked Toni over me that I needed to come up with an explanation for why I was rejected,” he writes. “So I told myself at the time that Phil’s decision must have been racially motivated. Only when I saw my words in print did it dawn on me how wrong I was — after thirty years!”

It was dumb and stupid because he wanted to Phil to support him to take the last shot. He even realize how wrong he was, then he still go on interviews to say that he is racist (probably to promote the book).

Bro. MJ being called an asshole by many is viewed as a compliment. They say it to say Jordan being that way is why they won. That's just excusing bad behavior. I hold the people that put up with that kind of behavior in high regard. There's no way I could be on the same team with a guy like that.

It's similar to Jimmy Butler and to Kobe. Some of the press called Butler a team cancer, even though he contributed to wins. But now look where he is now compared to the teams that let him go. And I don't know if that's the behavior that is the reason why they won. I don't think so, because there are many ways to win. But some people can't play like that. Some people can. While you don't want to play with a guy like that, Jimmy Butler probably would. Hell Hakeem was similar. Shaq was similar. Kobe was similar. Cuz they can be psychos. Shaq and Kobe were so bad that Rodman couldn't take being on the team.

But it seemed like MJ was an ass outside of the court too. That's a different story.

Pippen wasnt the only one that complained about it. Horace Grant, Craig Hodges, Ron Harper, Stacey King, also felt like Jordan was wrong for what he said in the Last Dance. And as i said in my other post to you Jordan expalined away his stuff. Or denied it. When he went to Atlanta during that series, he said he needed a break. That the media and leading the team was a heavy lead he had to bare. Rodman thrives off the negative. So im not surprised he didnt say anything. And Jordan didn't lobby any personal insults to Rodman. He insulted Pippen, Grant, and Thomas. PUBLICLY. And they publicly responded. We keep hearing about Pippen because Pippen is constantly asked about it. I bet before any interview that Jordan does, he makes the interviewer sign an NDA to not talk about what Pippen said.

I think Ron Harper said recently that Pippen shouldn't have a mic in front of him anymore. And the complaints were different than how Pippen complained.

Grant did complain about it. But he complained that it was like MJ bullied him. And Grant said he would fight back against MJ bully tactics. And he said that he wasn't the one who snitched. And hardcore b-ball fans been knew about this drama.

Ron Harper didn't really complain tho. He even complimented MJ style. He said this:

"MJ knew who he can talk to and knew who he had to push. He was one of those guys who made you work harder because you see how he works," Harper said. "You ain't gonna talk crazy to me and don't think I'm going to talk crazy to you. He would talk to Scott Burrell and Scott wasn't man enough to stand up for who he was. You ain't doing that s--- with me."

"I felt that it could've been more about what the team did and what the players done. But you know I understand they gave the copyrights to MJ. So it was more like 'Come Fly With Me, Part 2.' But it was good," he added.

https://www.insider.com/michael-jord...t-dance-2020-5

Ron Harper wasn't the man the bullied. Robert Parish said the same thing. He said some ppl on the team were scared of MJ, but Parish said he is a champion already and had to check MJ on his bully tactics. Here is a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EErVPyH2Ro


I don't know what Chris Hodges said. But no one complained how Pippen is complaining.

Bill Cartwright complained too. But he did it in a professional manner. He said straight up, "MJ was great. The best player in the league. Not the best leader off the court. We won, not because of just MJ. We won because of a great coaching staff, great defensive schemes, the best starting five in the league and players who were great and competitive." Which was true. The Bulls when they started winning, became great without MJ. And 94, if MJ played, they would've been even better.

And Pippen comes across as whiny because he is always complaining about MJ getting all the spotlight and wanted the media and others to give him more credit. Wrote a book about of why. Complaining how MJ would never be a superstar without him when they were already giving MJ shoe deals before he came into the league. They were calling MJ the best ever by 1989, but he didn't have any rings. It was amazing how MJ captivated the media and the league.

Anyway, Bill Cartwright didn't whine. He flat out said what he thought and that's that. Pippen goes off.

[97 bulls]

I don't think it was an obligation per say from a legal standpoint. Afterall, he did it anyway. That was never the point. The point is, it rubbed some ppl the wrong way. And MJ didn't like it and expressed his opinions. As you said, Shaq wasn't being disrespected by the Lakers, so the reasoning why was different. But Kobe hated that and wanted him to put in the work like he did. MJ wanted Pippen there and expressed his thoughts on it. There is no bad/good guy here. Just MJ didn't like it. And Pippen didn't like that MJ didn't like it. That's that.

Right. So why isnt Jordan considered a whiner? The double standard is real. Buf thats not all. Again, your argument is that the Bulls didnt have to give Pippen a raise hecause he was under a contract he signed. I agree. So Pippen is obligated to fulfill the stipulations in his contract and thats what he did.

And I don't know what you are talking about abandoning the team. He "retired". Played another sport. Then he came back. It'll be one thing if he wanted a trade or something. He didn't do a James Harden and just quit on the team to get them to trade him.

Perhaps you need to look up the word "abandoned". Most players retire because theyre too old to play or are injured. Jordan, the man that says there nothing more important than winning, abruptly retires and thus destroys any opportunity for the Bulls to win 4 straight Championships. And not only did he retire, but he does it 3 weeks before the start of the season. So the Bulls couldn't find a suitable replacement. Once again, I get it. I cant seem to understand why Jordan gets a pass and Pippen doesnt. I dont care that he retired. He left his team hanging.

I think it was more that he felt like he deserved to get the shot off than he felt like he was the best guy to do it. He probably thought he was in his head, but he felt disrespected. And he lashed out calling Phil a racist because of it, which was stupid. He even said himself that he felt like he deserved it because he did all the dirty work. That is being selfish.

Thats not all he said. He said it was his turn yes. Hes said he was the one with the experience, Jackson gave the last shot to Kukoc a rookie. I dont think hed be as upset had the shot been drawn up for Armstrong. But Pippen also said he wanted to at least be on the court. He said he was the Bulls most dangerous player. I don't think it being selfish. The way he handled it wasnt right.

And I'm not saying that's a bad thing. But him preaching about team ball is hypocritical because he wanted a selfish thing at that very moment. And he didn't let it go against Phil. He didn't reflect on the idea that he was being selfish at that moment. You could be a great team player and be selfish at those moments too. Many players comment on how great of a teammate Pippen is, including MJ lol! But that was a low moment for him and him talking about it and calling Phil a racist is even lower.

This is him rationalizing calling Phil a racist in his book:


It was dumb and stupid because he wanted to Phil to support him to take the last shot. He even realize how wrong he was, then he still go on interviews to say that he is racist (probably to promote the book).



It's similar to Jimmy Butler and to Kobe. Some of the press called Butler a team cancer, even though he contributed to wins. But now look where he is now compared to the teams that let him go. And I don't know if that's the behavior that is the reason why they won. I don't think so, because there are many ways to win. But some people can't play like that. Some people can. While you don't want to play with a guy like that, Jimmy Butler probably would. Hell Hakeem was similar. Shaq was similar. Kobe was similar. Cuz they can be psychos. Shaq and Kobe were so bad that Rodman couldn't take being on the team.

The fact that you keep referring to these players as "psychos" and "assholes" seems weird. When youre a psycho and people can still be successful with you being a psycho, theyre doing it in spite of you not beacause of you. The onle reason that behavior goes over is because the teams are winning.

I think Ron Harper said recently that Pippen shouldn't have a mic in front of him anymore. And the complaints were different than how Pippen complained.

Grant did complain about it. But he complained that it was like MJ bullied him. And Grant said he would fight back against MJ bully tactics. And he said that he wasn't the one who snitched. And hardcore b-ball fans been knew about this drama.

Ron Harper didn't really complain tho. He even complimented MJ style. He said this:


https://www.insider.com/michael-jord...t-dance-2020-5

Ron Harper wasn't the man the bullied. Robert Parish said the same thing. He said some ppl on the team were scared of MJ, but Parish said he is a champion already and had to check MJ on his bully tactics. Here is a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EErVPyH2Ro


I don't know what Chris Hodges said. But no one complained how Pippen is complaining.

Bill Cartwright complained too. But he did it in a professional manner. He said straight up, "MJ was great. The best player in the league. Not the best leader off the court. We won, not because of just MJ. We won because of a great coaching staff, great defensive schemes, the best starting five in the league and players who were great and competitive." Which was true. The Bulls when they started winning, became great without MJ. And 94, if MJ played, they would've been even better.

And Pippen comes across as whiny because he is always complaining about MJ getting all the spotlight and wanted the media and others to give him more credit. Wrote a book about of why. Complaining how MJ would never be a superstar without him when they were already giving MJ shoe deals before he came into the league. They were calling MJ the best ever by 1989, but he didn't have any rings. It was amazing how MJ captivated the media and the league.

Anyway, Bill Cartwright didn't whine. He flat out said what he thought and that's that. Pippen goes off.

Lol. Bro. They publicly complained. Point blank. As I stated earlier. Pippen isn't intentionally going on tirades, he's being asked about it in interviews. Is he supposed to lie? Why isn't Jordan a whiner for still complaining about Isiah Thomas and the Pistons years later? The double standard is damn near maddening. Lol

[Micku]

Right. So why isnt Jordan considered a whiner? The double standard is real. Buf thats not all. Again, your argument is that the Bulls didnt have to give Pippen a raise hecause he was under a contract he signed. I agree. So Pippen is obligated to fulfill the stipulations in his contract and thats what he did.

If you want to consider MJ a whiner for not having Pippen then, you could do so. I'm not going to debate that. But ppl don't. The reason why they don't is because they just agree with MJ side of things and not Pippen here. But ppl said similar things about Shaq.

Perhaps you need to look up the word "abandoned". Most players retire because theyre too old to play or are injured. Jordan, the man that says there nothing more important than winning, abruptly retires and thus destroys any opportunity for the Bulls to win 4 straight Championships. And not only did he retire, but he does it 3 weeks before the start of the season. So the Bulls couldn't find a suitable replacement. Once again, I get it. I cant seem to understand why Jordan gets a pass and Pippen doesnt. I dont care that he retired. He left his team hanging.

I think you get why, but you don't agree with it. MJ gets a pass because his dad died and he wanted to play baseball for respect for his dad. He "retired" for emotional reasons. Pippen healed on company time because he felt disrespected by the organization and it rubbed some ppl the wrong way. That's pretty much it. You argue the points of how you feel it's unjust, but I don't think it's a winning battle at this time to change the ppl mass mindset. And that's not what ppl think about when it comes to Pippen anyway. But Pippen felt hurt that MJ would think so and said it publicly. It's not in the wrong nor in the right. It just is what it is.

Thats not all he said. He said it was his turn yes. Hes said he was the one with the experience, Jackson gave the last shot to Kukoc a rookie. I dont think hed be as upset had the shot been drawn up for Armstrong. But Pippen also said he wanted to at least be on the court. He said he was the Bulls most dangerous player. I don't think it being selfish. The way he handled it wasnt right.

He said he was their best player. He felt disrespected. He felt like he could've made the shot and deserved it. And the way he handled it wasn't right. He imagined that Phil was a racist to give a reason to reject him. Even when he knew he was in the wrong of thinking that, he still called him a racist in interviews. And everyone who wants the last shot has to have confidence within themselves. But his reasoning was selfish to me. It wasn't about "I would've been okay if it was another person" he complained about "Why wasn't it for me?" At that point, it wasn't about the team. It was about respect. And it was respected within himself. The fact he talks about himself in that regard is selfish imo. That there isn't anything wrong with being selfish, but I just don't like him talking about the team yet wanting that to himself. And calling Phil a racist just because of that call because his feelings were hurt. And he admitted this, and he admitted he was in the wrong. Yet in interviews, he doubles down.

The fact that you keep referring to these players as "psychos" and "assholes" seems weird. When youre a psycho and people can still be successful with you being a psycho, theyre doing it in spite of you not beacause of you. The onle reason that behavior goes over is because the teams are winning.

Some of the best players in the world were psychos or assholes though. I mean, you are b-ball fan. You should know how crazy-obsessed Kobe was, and how mean Hakeem and Shaq were. And MJ was the same thing. Hell, Kobe and Shaq would tell how crazy they were. How Magic was obsessed. But not all of them were assholes. And if they were assholes, they weren't assholes off the court. A lot of the stories are kept hidden from us, so we don't know everything. And it's unknown how that sort of leadership work out. Shaq tried to fight Kobe multiple times, but they were amazing together. Shaq tried similar bully tactics that MJ did. Kobe said that Shaq wouldn't respect ppl what he would bully. He would get in their face, destroy them in practice, and talk a bunch of shit, to the point where they were scared to even get on the bus. How much of that weed ppl out or contribute to winning? I don't know. But their play still impacted the game.

And it depends on your tolerance level and how much you are willing to take in terms of personality. Kenny Smith said there were fights every other practice and Hakeem would yell at them and slap/fight ppl. And they would still win and it motivated each other. Bill Russell was an ass to ppl he coached. Jimmy Butler was an ass while he was with the T'wolves yet they went to the playoffs the first year after missing it for first two years when KAT was there. And after Butler left, they missed it for 4 years.

CP3 is reportedly an asshole, yet he evaluated his team everywhere he goes. He is also described as crazy competitive and obsessed.

We don't know how many top players are assholes. And guys like Rodman who saw MJ, couldn't deal with the Shaq and Kobe environment. Guys like KG headbutt rookie Kendrick Perkins, called him trash and try to punk him. And yet he was also one of the most amazing floor raisers when it comes to defense, communication, and etc. But that was just rookie Perkins, don't know how he is with his teammates overall. But he would yell and talk a lot.

There is a bunch of nuances. You can be an ass, but on the floor, you could evaluate your teammates. We have seen that happen. But you don't have to be an ass. We have seen that too. With MJ, he was an ass. Pip wasn't.

Lol. Bro. They publicly complained. Point blank. As I stated earlier. Pippen isn't intentionally going on tirades, he's being asked about it in interviews. Is he supposed to lie? Why isn't Jordan a whiner for still complaining about Isiah Thomas and the Pistons years later? The double standard is damn near maddening. Lol

Are we ignoring the context? What they complained about? Like Ron Harper said it was good documentary and MJ inspired his teammates to work harder. He just wished it talk about the team better. Ron Harper doesn't agree with Pippen. At least not all the way.

Grant complained about being a snitch and the idea of being "bullied" than the team play.

Will Purdue got punched by MJ. That doesn't get talked about. He also thought MJ was a great teammate despite being an asshole. He didn't complain nearly as much as Pippen.

Pippen wrote a book complaining about everything The Last Dance did. And what he could've done is what Bill Cartwright and Ron Harper did. No one is calling them whiners. It's because of how they said it.

It's just like the thing you said with Horry. That Horry said Phil Jackson was a racist, but he said the exact opposite. There was the context within what he said. You said Ron Harper complained about the doc, but he also said it was good. He complimented MJ and inspired others to work hard. He wasn't the only one said that, but a lot of them acknowledge that the team was more than just one person.

Like I said, you could call MJ a whiner about the Pistons. But the reason why ppl called Pippen a whiner about this whole thing is that it seems like jealousy and wanting more credit than what ppl think he deserved. Whatever that's true, it's up to the individual to decide.

[97 bulls]

If you want to consider MJ a whiner for not having Pippen then, you could do so. I'm not going to debate that. But ppl don't. The reason why they don't is because they just agree with MJ side of things and not Pippen here. But ppl said similar things about Shaq.

I dont consider either as being a whiner. Thats not my argument. Im asking as to why theres a different set of rules for the two players.

I think you get why, but you don't agree with it. MJ gets a pass because his dad died and he wanted to play baseball for respect for his dad. He "retired" for emotional reasons. Pippen healed on company time because he felt disrespected by the organization and it rubbed some ppl the wrong way. That's pretty much it. You argue the points of how you feel it's unjust, but I don't think it's a winning battle at this time to change the ppl mass mindset. And that's not what ppl think about when it comes to Pippen anyway. But Pippen felt hurt that MJ would think so and said it publicly. It's not in the wrong nor in the right. It just is what it is.

I most definitely know why. Jordan has a bigger fan base. And thus all logic gets thrown out. I'm big on consistency. It's not just that Jordan retired. It's when he decoded to retire. Keep in mind that were talking about doing what's in the best interest of the team even over family. It's just the double standard.

He said he was their best player. He felt disrespected. He felt like he could've made the shot and deserved it. And the way he handled it wasn't right. He imagined that Phil was a racist to give a reason to reject him. Even when he knew he was in the wrong of thinking that, he still called him a racist in interviews. And everyone who wants the last shot has to have confidence within themselves. But his reasoning was selfish to me. It wasn't about "I would've been okay if it was another person" he complained about "Why wasn't it for me?" At that point, it wasn't about the team. It was about respect. And it was respected within himself. The fact he talks about himself in that regard is selfish imo. That there isn't anything wrong with being selfish, but I just don't like him talking about the team yet wanting that to himself. And calling Phil a racist just because of that call because his feelings were hurt. And he admitted this, and he admitted he was in the wrong. Yet in interviews, he doubles down.

This is your interpretation. The only thing that makes it remotely valid is that Kukoc made the shot. Had he missed, then Pippen is much more vindicated. Had Kukoc missed, eveyone wouldve been saying that Pippen shouldve taken the last shot. Or why would Jackson give the shot to Kukoc a rookie?

Some of the best players in the world were psychos or assholes though. I mean, you are b-ball fan. You should know how crazy-obsessed Kobe was, and how mean Hakeem and Shaq were. And MJ was the same thing. Hell, Kobe and Shaq would tell how crazy they were. How Magic was obsessed. But not all of them were assholes. And if they were assholes, they weren't assholes off the court. A lot of the stories are kept hidden from us, so we don't know everything. And it's unknown how that sort of leadership work out. Shaq tried to fight Kobe multiple times, but they were amazing together. Shaq tried similar bully tactics that MJ did. Kobe said that Shaq wouldn't respect ppl what he would bully. He would get in their face, destroy them in practice, and talk a bunch of shit, to the point where they were scared to even get on the bus. How much of that weed ppl out or contribute to winning? I don't know. But their play still impacted the game.

And it depends on your tolerance level and how much you are willing to take in terms of personality. Kenny Smith said there were fights every other practice and Hakeem would yell at them and slap/fight ppl. And they would still win and it motivated each other. Bill Russell was an ass to ppl he coached. Jimmy Butler was an ass while he was with the T'wolves yet they went to the playoffs the first year after missing it for first two years when KAT was there. And after Butler left, they missed it for 4 years.

CP3 is reportedly an asshole, yet he evaluated his team everywhere he goes. He is also described as crazy competitive and obsessed.

We don't know how many top players are assholes. And guys like Rodman who saw MJ, couldn't deal with the Shaq and Kobe environment. Guys like KG headbutt rookie Kendrick Perkins, called him trash and try to punk him. And yet he was also one of the most amazing floor raisers when it comes to defense, communication, and etc. But that was just rookie Perkins, don't know how he is with his teammates overall. But he would yell and talk a lot.

There is a bunch of nuances. You can be an ass, but on the floor, you could evaluate your teammates. We have seen that happen. But you don't have to be an ass. We have seen that too. With MJ, he was an ass. Pip wasn't.

At the least, when you get to that level, most athletes have egos. Jordan being a jerk seems to be more a thing of a strength in the eyes of his fans. I'm a Jordan fan and I never saw that logic. Again, I think the Bulls success relieved much of Jordan's behavior. I don't believe Jordan being a jerk made his teammates better.

Are we ignoring the context? What they complained about? Like Ron Harper said it was good documentary and MJ inspired his teammates to work harder. He just wished it talk about the team better. Ron Harper doesn't agree with Pippen. At least not all the way.

Grant complained about being a snitch and the idea of being "bullied" than the team play.

Will Purdue got punched by MJ. That doesn't get talked about. He also thought MJ was a great teammate despite being an asshole. He didn't complain nearly as much as Pippen.

Pippen wrote a book complaining about everything The Last Dance did. And what he could've done is what Bill Cartwright and Ron Harper did. No one is calling them whiners. It's because of how they said it.

It's just like the thing you said with Horry. That Horry said Phil Jackson was a racist, but he said the exact opposite. There was the context within what he said. You said Ron Harper complained about the doc, but he also said it was good. He complimented MJ and inspired others to work hard. He wasn't the only one said that, but a lot of them acknowledge that the team was more than just one person.

The common denominator is Jordan. Jordan couldve spoke more about the team in his documentary, Jordan was violent, Jordan was a bully, Jordan insulted Pippen. You don't see the pattern? Again Pippen is being called a whiner for answering QUESTIONS. ANSWERING QUESTIONS. You don't want to acknowledge that.

Like I said, you could call MJ a whiner about the Pistons. But the reason why ppl called Pippen a whiner about this whole thing is that it seems like jealousy and wanting more credit than what ppl think he deserved. Whatever that's true, it's up to the individual to decide.

How is it whining if you're answering a question? Lol. Jordan gets asked about Thomas and the Pistons and he tells how he feels. Whining is unnecessary complaining. I just can't seem to understand why it's ok for one and not the other.

[Overdrive]

I asked you two specific questions bro. You answered neither.

I gave you a general answer because you thought I hold Jordan to a different standard than Pippen or the rest. I don't.

Did Pippen get backstabbed by:

Jordan? Yes, in a way. He praised him, while highlighting a few shortcomings in order to bolster his own ego. Should a great player like Jordan do that? No, it's a clear sign of insecurity and a lack of empathy for Pippen who's obviously also struggling with selfworth.

The management? No. Pippen signed a deal before the new CBA against any advice and kept complaining about it. If you do this in the private sector you'll get laid off. That was his own doing.

I answered the second question with my general answer. It's pitiful. Media just loves him for being what he was as a basketballplayer so he often isn't held accountable for his off court shortcomings. This in no way makes Pippen's behavour any better or excuseable.

The only way you can excuse Pippen's behaviour is by saying "but the others did too" and that's no reasoning that makes any sense beyond elementary school level. Pippen is a frustrated, insecure idiot, who believes he deserves more credit than he's given, because he thinks of himself as an equal to Jordan in skills, because at some point someone might've said so, while the general basketball watching public thinks differently.

He simply can't cope with that emotionally and Jordan, the reckless psycho that he is, shoved that down his throat in the doc. Both parties are at wrong here, but you act like Pippen is some sort of victim.

A victim to what? We've seen peak Pippen without MJ, we've seen his ceiling. His career would've been that of Dominque or even worse. So he's the victim of being a top 30 player by being teammates with Jordan, albeit the most important one. He should just come out and say: "MJ you're an asshole, but I'm grateful to have been part of the most successful orga of the 90s." But he can't. He wants to be the victim.

[Micku]

I dont consider either as being a whiner. Thats not my argument. Im asking as to why theres a different set of rules for the two players.

I most definitely know why. Jordan has a bigger fan base. And thus all logic gets thrown out. I'm big on consistency. It's not just that Jordan retired. It's when he decoded to retire. Keep in mind that were talking about doing what's in the best interest of the team even over family. It's just the double standard.

MJ does have a bigger fanbase, that is true. And that does play into it. However the fanbase would acknowledge that MJ was an asshole and he might have been the best teammate, but he got shit done. With Pippen, they didn't like that he didn't play. Even with Shaq with his fanbase, ppl didn't like it that he healed on company time either. I do get Pippen side. Even though they warned him what they were going to do before he signed the contract, it showed that they treat it like a business. So, Pippen decided to do what he did. He isn't in the wrong.

This is your interpretation. The only thing that makes it remotely valid is that Kukoc made the shot. Had he missed, then Pippen is much more vindicated. Had Kukoc missed, eveyone wouldve been saying that Pippen shouldve taken the last shot. Or why would Jackson give the shot to Kukoc a rookie?

What is my interpretation? The only thing I put that my take on is that he was being selfish. I did provide quotes. I reference his books and I could even put up his videos. He still called Phil a racist even though he knew it was wrong and stupid. He admitted his feelings were hurt. He admitted that he wanted the shot because of all the dirty work and wanted a chance to prove it without MJ being there. He said that on video. There was nothing he said about the team.

And that's okay that he wanted the last shot and the chance to prove it without MJ. But like you said and other ppl said, he handled it in the wrong way. Now why did Phil decide to give it Kukoc? I don't know. Was he right? It turned out to be a good choice but those things go up and down.

At the least, when you get to that level, most athletes have egos. Jordan being a jerk seems to be more a thing of a strength in the eyes of his fans. I'm a Jordan fan and I never saw that logic. Again, I think the Bulls success relieved much of Jordan's behavior. I don't believe Jordan being a jerk made his teammates better.

MJ wasn't the only superstar to do that. We legit don't talk about the antics that Shaq did and we don't know even the half of it. Same thing with other stars. It's still being done now. I don't know the full capacity of MJ being jerk. All we know is that his teammates called MJ a jerk. Was he more of an ass than Shaq-Kobe? Jimmy Butler was an ass while he was on the court, but with Miami he is the perfect fit? And keep in mind, these guys always provide wins.

The question is whether their attitude help the teammates win or was the level of play? I do think with their talent, they almost always a positive on the floor. I don't know if that is the right way to play all the time. As Barkley said, there are some players who would get to evaluate themselves by talking trash, being mean to each other, and keeping themselves mentally tough in practice. To lit a fire. And there are some players that you can't. Each player is different. And some of MJ teammates don't consider him a good leader or person. But some do consider him a good leader, but not a good person. You would have to be in that type of environment to see if it's right for you.

We don't know whether it had a positive effect or not in terms of MJ style of leadership. We know his teammates didn't like it, but just because you didn't like something doesn't mean it isn't working or that is working. They did win, but they won because they had a great team. Not just because of MJ leadership. And again, you can win in multiple ways and different styles of leadership.

The common denominator is Jordan. Jordan couldve spoke more about the team in his documentary, Jordan was violent, Jordan was a bully, Jordan insulted Pippen. You don't see the pattern? Again Pippen is being called a whiner for answering QUESTIONS. ANSWERING QUESTIONS. You don't want to acknowledge that.


How is it whining if you're answering a question? Lol. Jordan gets asked about Thomas and the Pistons and he tells how he feels. Whining is unnecessary complaining. I just can't seem to understand why it's ok for one and not the other.

I answered this and even acknowledge this. And again I said this:

And what he could've done is what Bill Cartwright and Ron Harper did. No one is calling them whiners. It's because of how they said it.

Again, he is not a whiner for answering the question. He is coming off as a whiner for how he is answering the question.

You don't have to like the doc. No one is calling ppl who didn't like the doc whiny. And no one is saying Pippen is whiny because he didn't like the doc. The context of why he didn't like the doc and how he is expressing it is coming off as whiny. There is a difference between how Pippen and Grant answer the question and how Harper and Cartwright answer the question.

Pippen goes:
"MJ wouldn't have been a star without me! They didn't talk about the team as much! Look what we did that one game while MJ was on the bench! We can be good without MJ! Look at our 94 year!! Phil was a racist because he didn't let me take the last shot! But I think it's silly now that I writing it. My bad! All my teammates loved me more than MJ!"

then writes a whole book about it. Thinking he got disrespected.

Cartwright said:
"MJ was a great player, the best player in the league, but his leadership wasn't the best. The doc is okay, but it didn't highlight the whole team. The coaching staff got us prepared. We were all competitive."

Harper said:
"MJ inspired us to work harder, he's a good leader, but he tried to bully you. I'm not one to be bullied. The doc is cool, but it doesn't show exactly how good the team was."

And again, I'm not the only one who thinks Pippen come across as whiny. There are reviews of his books that state he is whiny. Articles and talking heads. You can go on amazon right now and check it out. I'll give you some quotes:

the more appropriate title for this book would be "Butthurt" rather than "Unguarded". Pippen comes off very pretentious and unusually bitter. He communicates that he feels snubbed when people retrospectively consider that Bull's dynasty. He thinks MJ got too much credit and that Jordan was inappropriately self-glorifying in The Last Dance.
...
MJ was certainly unapologetically selfish and harsh. But the irony is that through this book Pippen demonstrates the same brash arrogance that he accuses MJ of having.

This person rated it 4 stars.

Other reviewers comment that Scottie is bitter, jealous, etc. On the contrary. Read the book. Put yourselves in Scottie's shoes. You can't read this book, thinking you're MJ or anyone else.

This person rated it 5 stars.

https://www.amazon.com/Unguarded-Sco...ustomerReviews

And the fact that ppl are constantly saying that he is coming off as bitter, whiny and jealous shows that something is wrong with in how he is saying it. This shows his miscommunication in how he gets his point across. If everyone is calling you whiny, bitter and jealous, and you don't want to express that, then you have to change how you communicate. Change the words and tone of how you say it.

[97 bulls]

MJ does have a bigger fanbase, which is true. And that does play into it. However, the fanbase would acknowledge that MJ was an asshole and he might have been the best teammate, but he got shit done. With Pippen, they didn't like that he didn't play. Even with Shaq with his fanbase, ppl didn't like it that he healed on company time either. There were a few who defended his actions. But that's it. But it's not something that gets brought up too often. Just in the doc where MJ said he didn't want like it. Pippen incident in 94 gets talked about way more often.

Lol. Again for like the 5th time. People calling Jordan an asshole is to be taken as a compliment. They literally say that Jordan being that way shaped the team into a killing machine. Calling Jordan an asshole by his fans is by no means to be taken as being disparaging.

What is my interpretation? The only thing I put that my take on is that he was being selfish. I did provide quotes. I reference his books and I could even put up his videos. He still called Phil a racist even though he knew it was wrong and stupid. He admitted his feelings were hurt. He admitted that he wanted the shot because of all the dirty work and wanted a chance to prove it without MJ being there. He said that on video. There was nothing he said about the team.

He also said, he was the most dangerous player on the team, he had the experience, Kukoc was a rookie, he at least wanted to be on the court even if to be nothing more than a decoy. You cherrypicked certain quotes from Pippen. He didnt just say that the only reason he wanted the shot was because it was his turn. You take it as him being selfish, I take it as he feeling he was the Bulls best shot at winning. Like is said, had Kukoc MISSED? I beleive Jackson goes down in infamy, because everyone wouldve said that Pippen shouldve been given the opportunity.

MJ wasn't the only superstar to do that. We legit don't talk about the antics that Shaq did and we don't know even the half of it. Same thing with other stars. It's still being done now. I don't know the full capacity of MJ being jerk. All we know is that his teammates called MJ a jerk. Was he more of an ass than Shaq-Kobe? Jimmy Butler was an ass while he was on the court, but with Miami he is the perfect fit? And keep in mind, these guys always provide wins.

The question is whether their attitude help the teammates win or was the level of play? I do think with their talent, they almost always a positive on the floor. I don't know if that is the right way to play all the time. As Barkley said, there are some players who would get to evaluate themselves by talking trash, being mean to each other, and keeping themselves mentally tough in practice. To lit a fire. And there are some players that you can't. Each player is different. And some of MJ teammates don't consider him a good leader or person. But some do consider him a good leader, but not a good person. You would have to be in that type of environment to see if it's right for you.

We don't know whether it had a positive effect or not in terms of MJ style of leadership. We know his teammates didn't like it, but just because you didn't like something doesn't mean it isn't working or that is working. They did win, but they won because they had a great team. Not just because of MJ leadership. And again, you can win in multiple ways and different styles of leadership.

True

I answered this and even acknowledge this. And again I said this:



Again, he is not a whiner for answering the question. He is coming off as a whiner for how he is answering the question.

You don't have to like the doc. No one is calling ppl who didn't like the doc whiny. And no one is saying Pippen is whiny because he didn't like the doc. The context of why he didn't like the doc and how he is expressing it is coming off as whiny. There is a difference between how Pippen and Grant answer the question and how Harper and Cartwright answer the question.

Pippen goes:
"MJ wouldn't have been a star without me! They didn't talk about the team as much! Look what we did that one game while MJ was on the bench! We can be good without MJ! Look at our 94 year!! Phil was a racist because he didn't let me take the last shot! But I think it's silly now that I writing it. My bad! All my teammates loved me more than MJ!"

then writes a whole book about it. Thinking he got disrespected.

Cartwright said:
"MJ was a great player, the best player in the league, but his leadership wasn't the best. The doc is okay, but it didn't highlight the whole team. The coaching staff got us prepared. We were all competitive."

Harper said:
"MJ inspired us to work harder, he's a good leader, but he tried to bully you. I'm not one to be bullied. The doc is cool, but it doesn't show exactly how good the team was."

I think the problem with Pippen is that his words dont come out quite right. Like the quote you mentioned. Jordan was already a great individual player, but it didnt translate to winning. I wouldve said I dont believe Jordan comes to be considered the GOAT by the consensus without me (Pippen). And thats not whining. Thats true. Or, Pippen saying Jordan was a terrible player before he arrived. Lol smh, thats nuts. But when I listen to the context, he meant from a team perspective. And again, that's true. See what people miss, is that in that same interview, when he's asked to name his all-time starting five, he lists Jordan. The other quotes you mentioned came from teammates who didn't invest nearly as much as Pippen did. Pip was there from the start. So they're answering two different talking points. Harper and Cartwright are talking about Jordans effect on the teams success with regard to his attitude. Pippen is talking about his effect on how Jordan came to be regarded.

And I do feel Pippen gets a raw deal as far as his credit. People saying stupid stuff like Jordan made him? That's an insult. You got people saying Jordan literally won 6 titles by himself. When you're called a Pippen, it's considered an insult, lol. Stupid talking points like anyone could've won with Jordan? Those are insults. You got a bunch of Jordan fans that literally say Pippen was a bum. I think the credit Pippen is looking for isn't so much from his contemporaries but from the fans.

And again, I'm not the only one who thinks Pippen comes across as whiny. There are reviews of his books that state he is whiny. Articles and talking heads. You can go on amazon right now and check it out. I'll give you some quotes:


This person rated it 4 stars.



This person rated it 5 stars.

https://www.amazon.com/Unguarded-Sco...ustomerReviews

The fact that ppl are constantly saying that he is coming off as bitter, whiny, and jealous shows that something is wrong with how he is saying it. This shows his miscommunication in how he gets his point across. If everyone is calling you whiny, bitter, and jealous, and you don't want to express that, then you have to change how you communicate. Change the words and tone of how you say it.

Lol. He should be bitter. I'd be bitter too based on how he's portrayed in media. I'd be bitter if I'm playing on a foot that needs to be surgically repaired, underpaid, and co-helped my team win 5 titles. And as a reward, I'm hearing my name being brought up in trade talks. You wouldn't be bitter?

[Micku]

Lol. Again for like the 5th time. People calling Jordan an asshole is to be taken as a compliment. They literally say that Jordan being that way shaped the team into a killing machine. Calling Jordan an asshole by his fans is by no means to be taken as being disparaging.

You're right about that. If they were losing, then it would've been MJ would've been a team cancer based on his attitude and behavior with his teammates. Like I said previously, I do get Pippen being hurt by the organization. I get his side. The Bulls did give him the courtesy of telling them what they were going to do if he signed the contract. On that part, it was self-inflicted on Pippen''s part. But the Bulls treat it like a business and didn't take care of Pippen. He deserved to get paid more and they weren't treating him right overall. Granted, they had no obligation to do so, so Pippen responded back and treated it like a business on his part too. The bulls damaged his morale. Pippen wasn't in the wrong. The Bulls did say what they were going to do, but they didn't go above and beyond for him either.

MJ didn't like it. I get why he didn't. He expressed his opinions about it.

He also said, he was the most dangerous player on the team, he had the experience, Kukoc was a rookie, he at least wanted to be on the court even if to be nothing more than a decoy. You cherrypicked certain quotes from Pippen. He didnt just say that the only reason he wanted the shot was because it was his turn. You take it as him being selfish, I take it as he feeling he was the Bulls best shot at winning. Like is said, had Kukoc MISSED? I beleive Jackson goes down in infamy, because everyone wouldve said that Pippen shouldve been given the opportunity.

I am really cherrypicking? Or is it the flip flop of stuff that Pippen would say, which I stated before. Especially on the racist comment. I do believe he was selfish at that moment because of the context of what he said. Even on the racist comment. His way of rationalizing it. But lets recap of everything Pippen said at that moment. He believed he was their best shot in winning, he believed he was the most dangerous player on the team, the best player on the team, he wanted it because he did all the dirty work prior and because MJ wasn't there, he believed it was disrespectful Phil wanted to give the ball to Kukoc instead, he got pissed and believed Phil was a racist because of this (his way of coping), but he didn't have any ill will towards Kukoc or anything like that.

Did I miss anything? Other than him wanting to be out there too.

In my eyes, that is selfish. But I also don't think that it's negative to want that. It's how he acted that was the problem and later on when he was promoting his book and going on interviews.

I think the problem with Pippen is that his words dont come out quite right. Like the quote you mentioned. Jordan was already a great individual player, but it didnt translate to winning. I wouldve said i dont believe Jordan comes to be considered the GOAT by the consensus without me (Pippen). And thats not whining. Thats true. The other quotes you mentioned came from teammates that didnt invest nearly as much as Pippen did. Pip was there from the start. So they're answering two different talking points. Harper and Cartwright are talking about Jordans effect on the teams success with regard to his attitude. Pippen is talking about his effect on how Jordan came to be regarded.

And I do feel Pippen gets a raw deal as far as his credit. People saying stupid stuff like Jordan made him? That's an insult. You got people saying Jordan literally won 6 titles by himself. When you're called a Pippen, it's considered an insult lol. Stupid talking points like anyone could've won with Jordan? Those are insults. You got a bunch of Jordan fans that literally say Pippen was a bum. I think the credit Pippen is looking for isn't so much from his contemporaries, but from the fans.

That part is true. Even MJ would've agreed to that. You can go even further say without Phil, Tex or the rest of the Bulls. But he just didn't say that. And he changes his mind on whether MJ is the GOAT or not. And he said he wouldn't have been a superstar without him, and that isn't true. He was a superstar before Pippen get into the league. That comes across as bitter. Same thing now when he said MJ was a horrible player before him. And I feel like that's a case in point in how Pippen say things. Even you could write a script for Pippen that doesn't make him sound as whiny or bitter. But Pippen can't do it himself. That's why Ron Harper said to stop putting a mic in front of him. It's self-damaging in terms of self-image, but it's a great way to get attention.

And MJ didn't make Pippen. He may have helped evaluate Pippen in terms of defense or attacking in the offense, but we don't know for sure or the details. It's the same thing as how MJ taught Kobe a few tricks. He taught Carmelo how to score easier by changing his mindset. There are nice little tricks that we may not know too much about. And not anyone could win with MJ. You need talent, obviously. Pippen had talent. There are fans who just say crazy stuff. What ppl would say is that Pippen is more replaceable than MJ. They used to say the same thing about Kobe. And that's just because MJ was one of the most talented, consistent, and skilled players ever. Like he is once in a generation type. And I think if Pippen is trying to appeal to the fans, then I don't think that is succeeding. He is getting attention, but the fans aren't feeling him like that. And I think it's because of how he says things and the tone in which he says it.

Lol. He should be bitter. I'd be bitter too based on how he's portrayed in media. I'd be bitter if I'm playing on a foot that needs to be surgically repaired, underpaid, and co-helped my team win 5 titles. And as a reward I'm hearing my name being brought up in trade talks. You wouldn't be bitter?

Nope. After being retired for nearly 20 years, naw. I'll be bitter about the other personal stuff in his life, but not really about the basketball career. Everyone is different tho. Like Barkley, he would crack jokes, make fun at people and laugh at himself. Carmelo mentioned how he is at peace with not winning anything. But Jerry West is still in pain over what happened in 1969. Larry Bird is still pissed about the college game against Magic.

You can find peace in whatever. But I definitely wouldn't call Phil a racist when I believed he wasn't. Neither would I think that Phil is a racist for not drawing up the last play for me as a coping mechanism. I wouldn't say MJ wouldn't have been a superstar without me. If I was in Pippen shoes I would say that you don't think MJ leadership helped in the lockerroom, but acknowledge the hardwork he put into his craft and I would highlight my leadership skills to help counter MJ bully tactics. I would be upset about the money, but I would find some way to warn players not to let it happen to you. Don't do the same mistake that I did. Say it's a business and you got to protect yourself. Pippen has money and he made it. Ppl acknowledge him as one of the best robins and top 50 players of all time. Ppl acknowledge his defensive skills and all-around play. That's cool. Even if Pip thinks he is underrated, he could put it out there in a better way or be more confident in himself instead of trying to prove to other ppl.

I would personally do a series explaining the plays and schemes with the bulls and modern basketball to give the audience an understanding of the little things.