The trans debate is the greatest cultural issue of our time

[Baller234]

At least 25-30% of the country, and a staggering percentage of Gen-Z, believe that gender is just something you choose you are. That there are no discernible differences between a man and a woman.

They have their hand in government, in education and in media. Institutional leverage which grants them the power to influence the masses. Especially the youth.

This is more than your standard political division. This is a debate over fundamental truth itself.

If we cannot agree on the meaning of language, and we cannot agree on what a man or a woman is, I just don't see how that society can co-exist peacefully. That sounds like it's going to be a major problem.

I would really not want to live in such a country. So yea, I have no problem with any politician (right or left) that decides to campaign on this issue and treat it like it's important. It's okay to chew gum and walk in a straight line.

[ShawkFactory]

At least 25-30% of the country, and a staggering percentage of Gen-Z, believe that gender is just something you choose you are. That there are no discernible differences between a man and a woman.

They have their hand in government, in education and in media. Institutional leverage which grants them the power to influence the masses. Especially the youth.

This is more than your standard political division. This is a debate over fundamental truth itself.

If we cannot agree on the meaning of language, and we cannot agree on what a man or a woman is, I just don't see how that society can co-exist peacefully. That sounds like it's going to be a major problem.

I would really not want to live in such a country. So yea, I have no problem with any politician (right or left) that decides to campaign on this issue and treat it like it's important. It's okay to chew gum and walk in a straight line.

You're thinking of sex, which you don't choose.

Gender focuses on cultural or social construction of sexes.

By definition.

[Baller234]

You're thinking of sex, which you don't choose.

Gender focuses on cultural or social construction of sexes.

By definition.

Okay then, if being a woman is different from being a female... then tell us what a woman is.

Tell us what makes a woman and a man different.

Be specific.

[ShawkFactory]

Okay then, if being a woman is different from being a female... then tell us what a woman is.

Tell us what makes a woman and a man different.

Be specific.

I think you think my views on this are different than they actually are. But if you're going to have an honest and productive discussion about the topic you should probably get the basics right and be open to seeing the other side.

It doesn't seem like you are, so there isn't really a point to having this conversation with you.

[Baller234]

I think you think my views on this are different than they actually are. But if you're going to have an honest and productive discussion about the topic you should probably get the basics right and be open to seeing the other side.

It doesn't seem like you are, so there isn't really a point to having this conversation with you.

You chose to reply to my post and insert yourself into the conversation all by yourself. Nobody forced you to engage with me.

You made a declarative statement. You said I was wrong about gender, therefore it is perfectly reasonable of me ask these questions. If you're going to say that we're wrong about gender, then you are obligated to correct us.

I say a woman and a female are one and the same. If you disagree with this, then you are free to explain why. Otherwise STFU and don't respond in the thread.

[ShawkFactory]

You chose to reply to my post and insert yourself into the conversation all by yourself. Nobody forced you to engage with me.

You made a declarative statement. You said I was wrong about gender, therefore it is perfectly reasonable of me ask these questions. If you're going to say that we're wrong about gender, then you are obligated to correct us.

I say a woman and a female are one and the same. If you disagree with this, then you are free to explain why. Otherwise STFU and don't respond in the thread.

It's different by definition. I don't need to make the argument..

But because you've asked, a female is someone who has the biological sexual organs/hormones/etc. of a female. A woman is someone who typically displays female characteristics biologically but also who also performs socially as someone we have deemed to be female, on top of having a self-identification of such constructs. Therefore there is more fluidity and nuance involved.

[Baller234]

It's different by definition. I don't need to make the argument..

So then you're saying a woman and a female are not the same thing then.

[Patrick Chewing]

Gender and sex are really one in the same because a man cannot become a woman and vice versa. If you have male genitalia, you are a man. If you have female genitalia, you are a woman.


This conversation really doesn't have to go beyond that. And yet, here we are.

[ShawkFactory]

So then you're saying a woman and a female are not the same thing then.

I made more of the post. I view it like the square is always a rectangle but a rectangle is not necessarily a square. Since we have developed both mentally and socially, there are more components to being a woman than being female even though there is obviously overlap.

[FultzNationRISE]

The Romans were polytheists and built a great civilization. Europeans were monotheists and built great civilizations.

By definition at least one of these society’s fundamental ‘truth’ had to be wrong. Yet neither was encumbered from achieving.

You can treat truth and narrative differently. You can let someone have a narrative even if you dont believe it’s the truth. It actually fosters better social cooperation.

Not everyone is gonna be a billionaire. Not everyone can do the things others do. If you publicly define happiness or success on narrow terms, objective or not, it leaves a lot of people out and creates tumult and instability. If some people can find happiness by pursuing life as a monk in a monastery or as a drag queen at a gay bar... so be it. That allows them to be satisfied, while you pursue whatever matters to you. And people can work together that way.

I agree with you in the scientific sense of the topic. But society probably functions BEST when every truth isnt foisted upon everyone (at least not at once), but rather left available to those who wish to pursue it, while others can pursue narratives that motivate them.

[crosstin]

The Romans were polytheists and built a great civilization. Europeans were monotheists and built great civilizations.

By definition at least one of these society’s fundamental ‘truth’ had to be wrong. Yet neither was encumbered from achieving.

You can treat truth and narrative differently. You can let someone have a narrative even if you dont believe it’s the truth. It actually fosters better social cooperation.

Not everyone is gonna be a billionaire. Not everyone can do the things others do. If you publicly define happiness or success on narrow terms, objective or not, it leaves a lot of people out and creates tumult and instability. If some people can find happiness by pursuing life as a monk in a monastery or as a drag queen at a gay bar... so be it. That allows them to be satisfied, while you pursue whatever matters to you. And people can work together that way.

I agree with you in the scientific sense of the topic. But society probably functions BEST when every truth isnt foisted upon everyone (at least not at once), but rather left available to those who wish to pursue it, while others can pursue narratives that motivate them.

Deep

[fsvr54]

if you believe in that shit you are a stupid fakkit, straight up.

It's nothing to be debated or understood. Shawk is a loser

[ShawkFactory]

The Romans were polytheists and built a great civilization. Europeans were monotheists and built great civilizations.

By definition at least one of these society’s fundamental ‘truth’ had to be wrong. Yet neither was encumbered from achieving.

You can treat truth and narrative differently. You can let someone have a narrative even if you dont believe it’s the truth. It actually fosters better social cooperation.

Not everyone is gonna be a billionaire. Not everyone can do the things others do. If you publicly define happiness or success on narrow terms, objective or not, it leaves a lot of people out and creates tumult and instability. If some people can find happiness by pursuing life as a monk in a monastery or as a drag queen at a gay bar... so be it. That allows them to be satisfied, while you pursue whatever matters to you. And people can work together that way.

I agree with you in the scientific sense of the topic. But society probably functions BEST when every truth isnt foisted upon everyone (at least not at once), but rather left available to those who wish to pursue it, while others can pursue narratives that motivate them.

Well you could argue that both instances in the example you've give are narratives rather than one or the other being a fundamental truth. But this applies to most things in life and I agree with your general sentiment that a harmonious society typically allows people to find happiness with whatever 'truths' work best for them. Of course there are limits to this, but this issue is not one of them to me.

[ShawkFactory]

if you believe in that shit you are a stupid fakkit, straight up.

It's nothing to be debated or understood. Shawk is a loser

[crosstin]

You're thinking of sex, which you don't choose.

Gender focuses on cultural or social construction of sexes.

By definition.

Notation: by definition from the 1970s onward.