The trans debate is the greatest cultural issue of our time

[ShawkFactory]

Notation: by definition from the 1970s onward.

If you want to argue that the definition is a modern contrivance then have at it. But that's a slippery slope that I would expect people who have this opinion to follow across all instances of this (but suspect that they wouldn't if the tables were turned).

[Lakers Legend#32]

Gender and sex are really one in the same because a man cannot become a woman and vice versa. If you have male genitalia, you are a man. If you have female genitalia, you are a woman.


This conversation really doesn't have to go beyond that. And yet, here we are.

Poopsie putting his GED education to work.

[FultzNationRISE]

Well you could argue that both instances in the example you've give are narratives rather than one or the other being a fundamental truth. But this applies to most things in life and I agree with your general sentiment that a harmonious society typically allows people to find happiness with whatever 'truths' work best for them. Of course there are limits to this, but this issue is not one of them to me.

From a scientific perspective there are things we can essentially consider “true” for all practical scientific purposes. Doctors, engineers, chemists etc all count on a number of things being objectively true to do their work. A heart drug that affects men and women differently doesnt care how someone identifies. And in that case people need to know what the truth is and whether they should take it.

Social views tend to be more subjective. When people bend a scientific truth to fit a social narrative, thats where you sort of have a divergence, and thats fine.

But again, in a way I think it’s good to have alternative narratives, and people pushing back on them respectively. It gives everyone a sense of pursuit of the truth as they see it. It keeps people going. A one-size-fits-all narrative wouldnt exactly do that, and it would likely lead to chaos. Ideological debate and evolution keep us occupied and distracted in ways we ultimately like to be. I think both sides should be free to voice opinions.

[ShawkFactory]

From a scientific perspective there are things we can essentially consider “true” for all practical scientific purposes. Doctors, engineers, chemists etc all count on a number of things being objectively true to do their work. A heart drug that affects men and women differently doesnt care how someone identifies. And in that case people need to know what the truth is and whether they should take it.

Social views tend to be more subjective. When people bend a scientific truth to fit a social narrative, thats where you sort of have a divergence, and thats fine.

But again, in a way I think it’s good to have alternative narratives, and people pushing back on them respectively. It gives everyone a sense of pursuit of the truth as they see it. It keeps people going. A one-size-fits-all narrative wouldnt exactly do that, and it would likely lead to chaos. Ideological debate and evolution keep us occupied and distracted in ways we ultimately like to be. I think both sides should be free to voice opinions.

Okay, and that's fine. But regarding this being the biggest social issue of our time...I believe that is completely invented. The harm that this actually causes pales in comparison to other issues we've had. If people like OP would STFU and let people do their thing, and people on the other side of the coin would realize that some people just aren't going to understand and STFU and just do their thing then this issue goes away completely. People wouldn't push the narrative if it wasn't opposed, and people wouldn't oppose the narrative if it wasn't pushed. And both sides predictably think that the other side "started it". The coals have already been loaded and who knows how to stop it but I really don't view it as a big deal fundamentally.

[Baller234]

It's different by definition. I don't need to make the argument..

But because you've asked, a female is someone who has the biological sexual organs/hormones/etc. of a female. A woman is someone who typically displays female characteristics biologically but also who also performs socially as someone we have deemed to be female, on top of having a self-identification of such constructs. Therefore there is more fluidity and nuance involved.

What do you mean "fluidity"? Either the distinction between man and woman is clear or it isn't.

This is why gender divorced from sex is total nonsense. The only differences between men and women ARE biological. In fact once you ignore our biological differences, we are mostly the same. We all share the same feelings and emotions. We all share similar hobbies and interests. It's not like there's one singular character trait that's exclusive to just men or women. There are men who enjoy sewing and knitting, there are women who enjoy beer and football.

If we ignore the biological differences between men and women, the labels themselves become utterly meaningless. There's not even a point in referring to someone as a man or a woman because the terms might as well be interchangeable.

[Baller234]

Okay, and that's fine. But regarding this being the biggest social issue of our time...I believe that is completely invented. The harm that this actually causes pales in comparison to other issues we've had. If people like OP would STFU and let people do their thing, and people on the other side of the coin would realize that some people just aren't going to understand and STFU and just do their thing then this issue goes away completely. People wouldn't push the narrative if it wasn't opposed, and people wouldn't oppose the narrative if it wasn't pushed. And both sides predictably think that the other side "started it". The coals have already been loaded and who knows how to stop it but I really don't view it as a big deal fundamentally.

Lol.

Nobody was debating the definition of the words "man" and "woman" until progressive weirdos started forcing the issue. You guys are clearly the ones who started this mess.

We were fine.

[ShawkFactory]

Lol.

Nobody was debating the definition of the words "man" and "woman" until progressive weirdos started forcing the issue. You guys are clearly the ones who started this mess.

We were fine.

Did they force the issue? The argument can be made that the matter wasn't an issue until someone who did or thought something was met with outrage. Again, you see if from your side and it looks like you (as predicted) blame the other side.

If you decided to not care about this then you would all still be fine.

[Media Moderator]

Gender dysphoria is a disease. All you people getting mad at trans people are barking up the wrong tree. You need to feel sorry for them. Anger only traumatizes them or worse, creates the victimhood many crave.

Worth noting
Mental illness by race in order
Hispanic
Black
White
Asian

Trans prevalence by race
Hispanic
Black
White
Asian

Mentally ill people are much more likely to become trans. Likewise trans people are much more likely to develop mental illness. Mental illness and trans people go hand in hand. Feel sorry for them, don't be mad, just feel how fortunate you are you aren't in their shoes.

[Baller234]

Did they force the issue? The argument can be made that the matter wasn't an issue until someone who did or thought something was met with outrage. Again, you see if from your side and it looks like you (as predicted) blame the other side.

If you decided to not care about this then you would all still be fine.

Yes, allowing men to compete in women's sports is forcing the issue.

Allowing men to serve their jail sentence in female prisons is forcing the issue.

[Dbrog]

Gender dysphoria is a disease. All you people getting mad at trans people are barking up the wrong tree. You need to feel sorry for them. Anger only traumatizes them or worse, creates the victimhood many crave.

Worth noting
Mental illness by race in order
Hispanic
Black
White
Asian

Trans prevalence by race
Hispanic
Black
White
Asian

Mentally ill people are much more likely to become trans. Likewise trans people are much more likely to develop mental illness. Mental illness and trans people go hand in hand. Feel sorry for them, don't be mad, just feel how fortunate you are you aren't in their shoes.

The comorbidity with various mental disorders is off the charts compared to non-trans groups. Here's a lit review of 37 studies from 2015-2020...it's pretty eye opening if you really have the time to read the study.

https://scholars.direct/Articles/psy...jid=psychiatry

Not completely discussed in this, there is a lot of data stating significant numbers of trans people are either autistic or have borderline personality disorder

[Norcaliblunt]

This issue or debate isn’t anything new under the sun. People have been playing with the concept of gender and exploring sexuality forever. A lot of us were bumping “Dude Looks Like a Lady” hair band mofos wearing make up with frizzy hair in spandex. As children no less. Lol. Cross dressing and switching up gender aesthetics is old school. Goes way back.

What’s new is the drugs and medical science. That is the real “cultural issue” and “debate” of our lifetime. How much are we gonna let doctors mutate us? But this goes way beyond “genders”.

[Baller234]

This issue or debate isn’t anything new under the sun. People have been playing with the concept of gender and exploring sexuality forever. A lot of us were bumping “Dude Looks Like a Lady” hair band mofos wearing make up with frizzy hair in spandex. As children no less. Lol. Cross dressing and switching up gender aesthetics is old school. Goes way back.

What’s new is the drugs and medical science. That is the real “cultural issue” and “debate” of our lifetime. How much are we gonna let doctors mutate us? But this goes way beyond “genders”.

Uh, clearly we aren't talking about the same thing.

There is a stark difference between a man presenting himself as a woman on the outside, and a man being recognized as a woman both in the public eye and under the court of law.

[Norcaliblunt]

Uh, clearly we aren't talking about the same thing.

There is a stark difference between a man presenting himself as a woman on the outside, and a man being recognized as a woman both in the public eye and under the court of law.

You know I’ve never thought about the court stuff until now actually. Lol. And maybe trans people hold the key to personal sovereignty and breaking free from that all CAPITAL LETTER NAME that the state owns thus making you a slave. My mind is blown now.

Seriously. Real personal sovereignty libertarian mofos need to support trans people breaking the court system because it will set you free.

[ShawkFactory]

Yes, allowing men to compete in women's sports is forcing the issue.

Allowing men to serve their jail sentence in female prisons is forcing the issue.

See that's where I agree. I vehemently oppose trans women being allowed to compete in women's sports. The prison one is slightly less of an issue for me but I can certainly agree there.

These are minor topics (although large talking points) within the grander scheme of this though. Most trans people are not athletes.

If that part were to go away would you not care anymore?

[Baller234]

See that's where I agree. I vehemently oppose trans women being allowed to compete in women's sports. The prison one is slightly less of an issue for me but I can certainly agree there.

These are minor topics (although large talking points) within the grander scheme of this though. Most trans people are not athletes.

If that part were to go away would you not care anymore?

How is it a minor topic? If men are entitled to compete in women's sports, why wouldn't they be entitled to other rights and protections as well?

You're basically advocating for the erasure of female only spaces.