The trans debate is the greatest cultural issue of our time

[ShawkFactory]

How is it a minor topic? If men are entitled to compete in women's sports, why wouldn't they be entitled to other rights and protections as well?

You're basically advocating for the erasure of female only spaces.

Did you even read what I said? You're arguing too emotionally about this.

[Baller234]

Did you even read what I said? You're arguing too emotionally about this.

Who's being emotional? I'm simply telling you what your words imply.

If we follow your train of thought to it's logical end, it would mean the end of female-only spaces. Male-only spaces too for that matter.

That's just a fact. That's why this issue is important.

[ShawkFactory]

Who's being emotional? I'm simply telling you what your words imply.

If we follow your train of thought to it's logical end, it would mean the end of female-only spaces. Male-only spaces too for that matter.

That's just a fact. That's why this issue is important.

How about my actual words:

See that's where I agree. I vehemently oppose trans women being allowed to compete in women's sports

People like you, and others with radical thoughts on the subject on the other end of the spectrum may think it's impossible the be pro-trans and anti trans in female sports. *Pro-trans meaning believing in their right to do what they will with themselves, and potentially learning and be sympathetic to what people like that are going through*

Trust me, it isn't black and white and believing both things is possible.

In my opinion, only when a happy medium from both ends is found will an actual harmonious and more importantly practical solution be implemented. People are more reasonable when they don't feel attacked. This is true across the board.

[Baller234]

How about my actual words:



People like you, and others with radical thoughts on the subject on the other end of the spectrum may think it's impossible the be pro-trans and anti trans in female sports. *Pro-trans meaning believing in their right to do what they will with themselves, and potentially learning and be sympathetic to what people like that are going through*

Trust me, it isn't black and white and believing both things is possible.

In my opinion, only when a happy medium from both ends is found will an actual harmonious and more importantly practical solution be implemented. People are more reasonable when they don't feel attacked. This is true across the board.

You're misrepresenting my argument entirely, as expected.

Trans people are free to live their lives and present themselves on the outside however they want. I couldn't stop them from doing that even if I wanted to, which I don't. The problem arises if and only if you force us to recognize them as something they aren't, especially under the court of law.

A trans woman should not have to the right to partake in female-only spaces, whether it is sports or otherwise. If you believe that is a "radical" opinion to hold, then maybe you're the extremist here.

[ShawkFactory]

You're misrepresenting my argument entirely, as expected.

Trans people are free to live their lives and present themselves on the outside however they want. I couldn't stop them from doing that even if I wanted to, which I don't. The problem arises if and only if you force us to recognize them as something they aren't, especially under the court of law.

A trans woman should not have to the right to partake in female-only spaces, whether it is sports or otherwise. If you believe that is a "radical" opinion to hold, then maybe you're the extremist here.

I've never said that that is the case, based on what you've cleared up. I've actually agreed with that take multiple times.

I don't think that our opinions on the matter really differ all that much then.

[Baller234]

I've never said that that is the case, based on what you've cleared up. I've actually agreed with that take multiple times.

I don't think that our opinions on the matter really differ all that much then.

I'm not sure. You came in here insisting that a woman and a female weren't the same thing.

[ShawkFactory]

I'm not sure. You came in here insisting that a woman and a female weren't the same thing.

I stand by that. There's heavy overlap but there are differences that have already been mentioned, and at times are worth noting. But it's honestly not all that important at this point because our general sentiment when it comes to legality is the same.

If your initial post was what you said in your previous one then you would have gotten no argument from me. But you didn't

[Baller234]

I stand by that. There's heavy overlap but there are differences that have already been mentioned, and at times are worth noting. But it's honestly not all that important at this point because our general sentiment when it comes to legality is the same.

If your initial post was what you said in your previous one then you would have gotten no argument from me. But you didn't

What's the difference between a female and a woman then?

Describe the type of woman that isn't a female. Be specific.

[iamgine]

Both sides are correct and wrong.

Biological sex can't be chosen. You're either male or female. Both sides agree on this.

Gender however, is indeed fluid. This is what one side got wrong. Gender IS subjective. No ifs and buts about it. You can be male, female, or the other 996,754 other genders in the universe.

However, this does not entitle you to enforce your subjectivity on others. Society has to work based on something. You can't be a 360 lbs male and feel like a female and enter girl's toilets. Or enter girl's boxing match. If you're a boy and feel like a girl and you want to join the girl's sleepover party, you can ask nicely. Not barge in and demand it is your right to join. This is what the other side got wrong.

By the way, I have seen the argument that if gender is subjective, then is age also subjective? The answer is yes it is. Biological age is not subjective but age is subjective. You can be 17 and feel 70. Doesn't give you the right to demand discount on senior buffet.

[Lakers Legend#32]

Desantis has made bashing the LGBTQ community the centerpiece of his campaign. Now he is barely hanging on in the race.

[Baller234]

Both sides are correct and wrong.

Biological sex can't be chosen. You're either male or female. Both sides agree on this.

Gender however, is indeed fluid. This is what one side got wrong. Gender IS subjective. No ifs and buts about it. You can be male, female, or the other 996,754 other genders in the universe.

However, this does not entitle you to enforce your subjectivity on others. Society has to work based on something. You can't be a 360 lbs male and feel like a female and enter girl's toilets. Or enter girl's boxing match. If you're a boy and feel like a girl and you want to join the girl's sleepover party, you can ask nicely. Not barge in and demand it is your right to join. This is what the other side got wrong.

By the way, I have seen the argument that if gender is subjective, then is age also subjective? The answer is yes it is. Biological age is not subjective but age is subjective. You can be 17 and feel 70. Doesn't give you the right to demand discount on senior buffet.

Gender can't be fluid because it is linked to sex.

Gender has never, ever been divorced from sex. There is no such thing a male woman or a female man.

[iamgine]

Gender can't be fluid because it is linked to sex.

Gender has never, ever been divorced from sex. There is no such thing a male woman or a female man.

That's where one side is mistaken. Meaning of a word can evolve in society.

[Baller234]

That's where one side is mistaken. Meaning of a word can evolve in society.

Okay, explain the new meaning then.

What is a woman?

[iamgine]

Okay, explain the new meaning then.

What is a woman?

To me it's an adult female.

[Baller234]

To me it's an adult female.

Right, I'm glad you agree.

But if people are going to insist we're wrong, or that a word can "evolve" and take new meaning, then they are obligated to provide that new meaning.

They cannot, because deep down they are aware that this is all nonsense.