So turns out MJ also has the GOAT plus-minus?

[dankok8]

We now have almost his entire career playoff ON-OFF. Missing only 1986 (3 games), 1987 (3 games) and 1995 (10 games). All the data from super reliable sources too.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/vie...f=64&t=2314587

On: +8.38
Off: -8.56 [note: it is -8.83 if using the alternate value for 1990]
On-Off: +16.94 [note: it is +17.21 if using the alternate value for 1990]

+17 ON-OFF is freaking bonkers!

When factoring in the missing games it probably goes down a bit because he lost 3/4 series in 1986/1987/1995 but I doubt it ends up below +14 or +15 which is still the highest playoff ON-OFF of any modern superstar I know.

[Soundwave]

Can you list some other players ON-OFF plus minus? Like LeBron, Kobe, Duncan, Steph, etc.

[1987_Lakers]

We now have almost his entire career playoff ON-OFF. Missing only 1986 (3 games), 1987 (3 games) and 1995 (10 games). All the data from super reliable sources too.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/vie...f=64&t=2314587

On: +8.38
Off: -8.56 [note: it is -8.83 if using the alternate value for 1990]
On-Off: +16.94 [note: it is +17.21 if using the alternate value for 1990]

+17 ON-OFF is freaking bonkers!

When factoring in the missing games it probably goes down a bit because he lost 3/4 series in 1986/1987/1995 but I doubt it ends up below +14 or +15 which is still the highest playoff ON-OFF of any modern superstar I know.

How convenient. two years when he got swept and another year where he lost.

[dankok8]

How convenient. two years when he got swept and another year where he lost.

That's why I said his total career ON-OFF is probably like +14 or +15. But that's still probably the highest of any recent superstar.

Career Playoff ON-OFF 1997-present:
Stephen Curry +12.0
Shaquille O'Neal +11.7
Lebron James +10.2
Kobe Bryant +7.6
Tim Duncan +7.5

[SouBeachTalents]

That's why I said his total career ON-OFF is probably like +14 or +15. But that's still probably the highest of any recent superstar.

Career Playoff ON-OFF 1997-present:
Stephen Curry +12.0
Shaquille O'Neal +11.7
Lebron James +10.2
Kobe Bryant +7.6
Tim Duncan +7.5

Where did you find the on-off for everyone else, you have a link?

[dankok8]

Where did you find the on-off for everyone else, you have a link?

Basketball-Reference pages for each player under Play-by-Play.

[jlip]

I don't have time to look it up right now, but didn't Thinking Basketball do a video last year regarding this? I believe his conclusion was while MJ's on/ off, +/-, or some stat like that was all time great it was slightly behind Shaq and LeBron. Again, I can't remember the details.

[1987_Lakers]

I don't have time to look it up right now, but didn't Thinking Basketball do a video last year regarding this? I believe his conclusion was while MJ's on/ off, +/-, or some stat like that was all time great it was slightly behind Shaq and LeBron. Again, I can't remember the details.

Yea, unless we can get an official stat on this, alot of this stuff is "He said, she said".

[SouBeachTalents]

Looking at some other players, numbers that surprised/amused me

Garnett's career playoff on-off is +14.5

Jokic was only a +2 during his title run

Durant had a -52.9 in the Celtics series in 2022

[sdot_thadon]

Do we these numbers for Guys like magic, bird, Wilt, Russell etc? If not he's just the goat of an incomplete data set lol.

[Charlie Sheen]

We now have almost his entire career playoff ON-OFF. Missing only 1986 (3 games), 1987 (3 games) and 1995 (10 games). All the data from super reliable sources too.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/vie...f=64&t=2314587

On: +8.38
Off: -8.56 [note: it is -8.83 if using the alternate value for 1990]
On-Off: +16.94 [note: it is +17.21 if using the alternate value for 1990]

+17 ON-OFF is freaking bonkers!

When factoring in the missing games it probably goes down a bit because he lost 3/4 series in 1986/1987/1995 but I doubt it ends up below +14 or +15 which is still the highest playoff ON-OFF of any modern superstar I know.

Why is it bonkers? What do you think this on-off stat is telling you?

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

Looking at some other players, numbers that surprised/amused me

Garnett's career playoff on-off is +14.5

Jokic was only a +2 during his title run

Durant had a -52.9 in the Celtics series in 2022

Embiid was something like +95 on and -100 off against the Raps.

[90sgoat]

I'm not sure about the On-Off stat being that useful.

It seems to slant towards players who play a lot of minutes and have good starting rotations, or rather, teams that stack their good players with their superstar, because they play many minutes. In theory it skews towards old school stars.

Take Jokic and his supposed low +-. I've rarely seen a player be more valuable on the court.

[dankok8]

I don't have time to look it up right now, but didn't Thinking Basketball do a video last year regarding this? I believe his conclusion was while MJ's on/ off, +/-, or some stat like that was all time great it was slightly behind Shaq and LeBron. Again, I can't remember the details.

Yes for single year MJ was behind a few players like Lebron, Shaq and KG but single year is very noisy because of small sample size.

[Axe]

He did so without scottie pippen?