Theres actually no argument against Jokic being as good as any player ever

[FultzNationRISE]

This thread picked up and I need to catch up. But I just wanted to say Duncan’s physical ability gets underrated as hell. He wasn’t a supreme outlier in strength, speed, or vert, but if you combine both size, strength, mobility, coordination, he was a beast. Him not being an outlier in any particular category makes him not stand out as much in that aspect, but Timmy was a freak athletically, even for best of the best NBA standards.

Yeah he had some vicious putbacks in his earlier days that are easy to forget based on the guy we got used to watching the last 10 years of his career.

[Walk on Water]

OP.. Jokic already tied Lebron in triple doubles. How many years has Lebron played? Exactly. So how can Lebron be the only goat or goat at all? How is Lebron better than Jokic? Hey I had to call you out on that. If Lebron is the goat, then Walk on Water is the sexiest man alive. Agree?

[dankok8]

Comparing Barkley and Jokic in peak scoring...

1988 Barkley: 26.8 pts/75 on 66.5 %TS (+12.7 rTS)
2023 Jokic: 29.8 pts/75 on 70.1 %TS (+12.0 rTS)

However if Barkley was playing in 2023 and kept the same relative efficiency of +12.7 rTS, he would shoot 70.8 %TS which would raise his scoring volume since he's now making more shots on his true shooting attempts. It seems fair to adjust for that.

Adjusted to 2023 conditions...

1988 Barkley: 28.5 pts/75 on 70.8 %TS (+12.7 rTS)
2023 Jokic: 29.8 pts/75 on 70.1 %TS (+12.0 rTS)

They are pretty close looking only at scoring.

[eliteballer]

OP.. Jokic already tied Lebron in triple doubles. How many years has Lebron played? Exactly. So how can Lebron be the only goat or goat at all? How is Lebron better than Jokic? Hey I had to call you out on that. If Lebron is the goat, then Walk on Water is the sexiest man alive. Agree?

Wow..wild stat.

[warriorfan]

It’s getting to the point where what else does Jokic have to do? It feels like if he put up 50/20/15 we would still hear it doesn’t matter because of the modern era.

To be honest at this point if you want to throw shade on Jokic for modern game, I don’t know why you are even watching anymore.

Should just fire up the 1985 season and watch those nightly instead. Because according to many , this shit doesn’t even matter anymore.

[sdot_thadon]

OP.. Jokic already tied Lebron in triple doubles. How many years has Lebron played? Exactly. So how can Lebron be the only goat or goat at all? How is Lebron better than Jokic? Hey I had to call you out on that. If Lebron is the goat, then Walk on Water is the sexiest man alive. Agree?

If you have to ask how Lebron is better than Jokic you probably shouldn't be posting here.....or anywhere for that matter lol.

[Baller234]

It’s getting to the point where what else does Jokic have to do? It feels like if he put up 50/20/15 we would still hear it doesn’t matter because of the modern era.

To be honest at this point if you want to throw shade on Jokic for modern game, I don’t know why you are even watching anymore.

Should just fire up the 1985 season and watch those nightly instead. Because according to many , this shit doesn’t even matter anymore.

depends on what you're trying to prove.

if you're trying to prove he's the best in the league, i would say he's already done that.

if you're trying to prove he's the best of all time, or that he's as good as anyone else who's ever been considered the best of all time, then i still think he has ways to go. especially knowing the guys he's ultimately going to be compared to.

[elementally morale]

Quiet game where he doesn't shoot well. 22/8/8 in the 1st half. Should have 10+ assists by now, his teammates blew two easy layups and a couple of open shots.

[kawhileonard2]

Of course there is no singular objective “GOAT” (Besides Lebron). It’s just a talk show topic that fans see on TV and naturally take seriously and think is real and parrot the idea like there really is a true consecutive hierarchy that objectively goes from 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 etc and they think they can prove it by reciting things like “he has x rings!” or “he made 11 all stars and a dpoy!”

Fact is “GOAT” isnt a real thing (the only one with an argument is Lebron). Player A could be better than player B in one situation, player B better than C in another, and C better than A in another. Everyone plays under different circumstances, theres no measurement that can prove one guy is “greater” than everyone else.

But the reality is Jokic is DWARFING his peers in what is by far the most globally competitive, highly trained talent pool ever. And he does it in both the irrelevant season and the post season. He’s in the same class of “there is no argument for anyone else in his own time” that Lebron and MJ were.

If youre honest and intelligent - and lets face it that isnt a lot of you - you dont need some arbitrary criterion that you just made up in your head to justify keeping things from changing. “Nah uh, not until he wins, uhh… this many!” *holds hands apart like a babbling toddler*

Theres nothing basketball wise you can say puts anyone else ahead of him. Doesnt mean hes as good at every facet as every player but in terms of the totality. Nobody ever has a game that is clearly above Jokic. Even his defensive metrics in last yearÂ’s playoffs were on par with Giannis’. Part of that was a great team strategy in terms of how to shade him, rather than him being a dominant rim protector, but if its not an exploitable weakness who cares.

So please, if you hear people start to talk about him being as good as anyone ever, dont be a dumb reactionary robot and give pleb reasons based on dumb things you heard on first take about “not until he wins ____.” Im just letting you know now. If you say such things, youre not gonna be seen as very smart. Youre gonna be seen as a frog who cant understand things on his own and repeats whatever TV Man says.

Thank you.

Lost with HCA while other all time greats that won league and finals mvp that turned franchise into dynasty didn't.

[elementally morale]

Jokic has a triple double before the end of the 3rd.

29/13/10

Still a quarter to go.

[Axe]

*autistic rambling*

Stfu, jordansbulls.

[warriorfan]

depends on what you're trying to prove.

if you're trying to prove he's the best in the league, i would say he's already done that.

if you're trying to prove he's the best of all time, or that he's as good as anyone else who's ever been considered the best of all time, then i still think he has ways to go. especially knowing the guys he's ultimately going to be compared to.

This is where it gets messed up. He could post the 50/20 season and still get doubters. It’s stupid.

MJ ruined all era basketball discussions.

He mixed a portion of bill russell’s winning with a portion of some of the most individually dominating basketball we have ever seen.

He was a once in multiple generation both of talent and personality combined, as the stars aligned for him to have an almost fantastical storybook of a career, where he virtually had no faulter in comparison to anyone else. He set a bar so high that it can almost never be reattained nevertheless surpassed.

I am being speculative because I wasn’t around, but I imagine goat talks before MJ were a lot more interesting. You had Wilt vs Russell, oscar in the mix, and I imagine ring counting wasn’t as much of a thing. Then you had Magic and Bird bridging the gap and making some noise in the conversation. Then here comes Jordan setting a new bar that’s just unrealistic. Now a player needs to not only be a perennial MVP game breaking player but also rip off 5+ championships with 3 peats or back to backs at least.

This all goes back to the dead horse that has been beaten plenty already but there are no real airtight goat ranking arguments anymore. It’s just impossible.


We can say that jokic has absolutely dominated his peers and he could hang with any big man in the history of the game and leave it at that.