There's no 13-yr period of Kobe that sniffs Lebron's career

[tpols]

I most enjoyed him claiming LeBron & Shaq would've been underdogs in the Finals from 2000-02

They probably lose to the Blazers in 2000 and the Kings in 2002. It's just a clunky fit. Young Lebron didnt have the jumper to fit in the Lakers triangle system alongside Shaq clogging up the paint.

Lebrons jumper was totally broke when he was young and Kobe had one of the best midrange jumpers in the game and he was All Defense 1st team while Lebron wasn't a great defender when he was young. He got better later on in that respect.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

It does matter when applying the GOAT standard to Kobe and comparing him to guys like MJ/Lebron.

Neither MJ/Lebron are winning ANYTHING putting up 15.6ppg on 41.1 TS% in the finals.

The Lakers went up 2-0 in the 2000 finals with Kobe putting up 8/2/5 on 47.4 TS% . Maybe because Shaq put up 44/22/4 and 3 blocks per game in those first 2 games . ABSURD levels of carrying by peak Shaq.

This is true.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Lebrons jumper was totally broke when he was young while Lebron wasn't a great defender

Jumper never really got any better, especially his mid-range, and hasn't played 3 min of defense in a game since 2014.

[3ba11]

It does matter when applying the GOAT standard to Kobe and comparing him to guys like MJ/Lebron.

Neither MJ/Lebron are winning ANYTHING putting up 15.6ppg on 41.1 TS% in the finals.

The Lakers went up 2-0 in the 2000 finals with Kobe putting up 8/2/5 on 47.4 TS% . Maybe because Shaq put up 44/22/4 and 3 blocks per game in those first 2 games . ABSURD levels of carrying by peak Shaq.

It's so ironic Kobe stans trying to say "hey what happened in the finals doesn't erase the rest of the year"...yet that's literally what Kobe stans do to Lebron.

Yeah but Kobe was clear-cut 2nd option at that time, so his stats don't matter - the Bulls frequently won many games with Pippen wetting the bed in similar fashion - Kobe never wet the bed as 1st option such as losing a series due to under 40% shooting

[StrongLurk]

Yeah but Kobe was clear-cut 2nd option at that time, so his stats don't matter - the Bulls frequently won many games with Pippen wetting the bed in similar fashion - Kobe never wet the bed as 1st option such as losing a series due to under 40% shooting

Thank you for proving my point in this thread and the other thread I made. My point is saying Kobe > Lebron because 5 rings > 4 rings is incorrect because Kobe's 5 rings were not won as the "best player" on the team, or even the best player in the finals (Kobe was outplayed by non-Lakers players too). Kobe's 2000 ring is especially egregious in this regard. I am NOT saying Kobe was a bad player during that time - he was in fact a good player that year. BUT, he was severely carried in the finals (if you want to use the "injury excuse", then go ahead, but the injury excuse doesn't change that he was carried).

So Kobe really only has 4 rings where he performed at a very high level throughout the playoffs and the finals (same as Lebron). His 2000 ring doesn't matter in "all-time" discussions because he it was a "pippen-level" ring at best.

[LeGoat4Life]

Kobe won 5 rings in a 13-year span. Find me one from Bran where he did the same.

Boom

First post slay are always the best

[3ba11]

Thank you for proving my point in this thread and the other thread I made. My point is saying Kobe > Lebron because 5 rings > 4 rings is incorrect because Kobe's 5 rings were not won as the "best player" on the team, or even the best player in the finals (Kobe was outplayed by non-Lakers players too). Kobe's 2000 ring is especially egregious in this regard. I am NOT saying Kobe was a bad player during that time - he was in fact a good player that year. BUT, he was severely carried in the finals (if you want to use the "injury excuse", then go ahead, but the injury excuse doesn't change that he was carried).

So Kobe really only has 4 rings where he performed at a very high level throughout the playoffs and the finals (same as Lebron). His 2000 ring doesn't matter in "all-time" discussions because he it was a "pippen-level" ring at best.

yeah but based on 2 decades of wathcing Lebron, it's highly likely that he would trick off Finals with Shaq and coudln't 3-peat with Shaq, or repeat with just 1 other star like Pau - Lebron needed 2 stars or a sidekick to be scoring leader (AD), and these teams were still underdogs in the Finals and not a towering juggernaut like what Kobe had with Shaq or Pau

so that's the issue - Kobe's skillset yields better teams (higher team ceiling/Finals records) while Lebron-ball would trick off various Finals with Shaq and would never even make the Finals win the West with Pau, let alone repeat.. 20 years has shown that Lebron needs far more help and even when he has Shaq-like help, his teams are nowhere near a 3-peat historic team.

Kobe is just far superior due to his expert jumpshooting skill and the resulting superior teammate fits, chemistry, development and strategy/coaching - these things yield superior teams with less help. Lebron is just a Luka-style ball-dominator and simpleton compared to Kobe

[StrongLurk]

Welp, looks like the case is closed. Lebron > Kobe as clearly supported by most factual measures.

[3ba11]

Welp, looks like the case is closed. Lebron > Kobe as clearly supported by most factual measures.

OTHER factual measures that contribute to winning include teammate development, chemistry/fits, and strategic capacity/coaching (ball movement/high team assists), - these things contribute to winning/team ceiling/Finals records/favorite status more than stats

[StrongLurk]

OTHER factual measures that contribute to winning include teammate development, chemistry/fits, and strategic capacity/coaching (ball movement/high team assists), - these things contribute to winning/team ceiling/Finals records/favorite status more than stats

You aren't saying anything new. Again, this case is closed since there isn't anything more to add for Kobe. He has a few advantages over Lebron, but just a few.

If we had to measure out of 10 total points, Lebron gets 6 and Kobe gets 4. Lebron is a tier above Kobe all time and is widening the gap to this day. Kobe is definitely top 6-8 all time though.