Since MJ shot 37% at 3+ attempts w/out practice, he would shoot 40% today w/ practice

[ShawkFactory]

Out3balling 3ball is truly an astonishing accomplishment.

Yes.

But given the nature of the idea (as I’ve already said) I think it’s fair to say Jordan would be a better 3pt shooter in this era. I think that’s a given.

Getting the person making that claim to be fair on the other end is the problem. There’s no emphasis for guards in particular in this era to work on any sort of post game or be technically sound with footwork, triple-threat play, etc.

Would he still have 3 years under Dean Smith’s tutelage in college now? Saying he’d be a better shooter but keeping all the other shit he learned in the early 80s is where you lose me.

[Lebron23]

put this in today's game:







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuryGoKXT-Q&t=02m37s


notice he doesn't break form - these aren't heaves

Those were under sized shooting guards.

[iamgine]

The problem with "Kareem could be a great 3pt shooter in this era" type of assumption is you forget while that's very possible, it's very likely he wouldn't have his skyhook. Then you create a player that isn't the original player anymore.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

Yes.

But given the nature of the idea (as I’ve already said) I think it’s fair to say Jordan would be a better 3pt shooter in this era. I think that’s a given.

Getting the person making that claim to be fair on the other end is the problem. There’s no emphasis for guards in particular in this era to work on any sort of post game or be technically sound with footwork, triple-threat play, etc.

Would he still have 3 years under Dean Smith’s tutelage in college now? Saying he’d be a better shooter but keeping all the other shit he learned in the early 80s is where you lose me.

Yeah, 3ball is assuming the role of broken clock here because Jordan probably would be a pretty good 3pt shooter. Made that case in a private chat on another forum, might as well c + p:

And the three-ball? Yes, it was a weak point. But here's where it gets interesting: unlike many others that had weaknesses from certain parts of the court, Jordan actually shot better the more attempts he hoisted up: his five most accurate three-point shooting campaigns double as his five highest attempt seasons. If you exclude the three years the line was shorter, you still get a healthy 36.5% over two years, on 3 attempts a game.

MJ largely viewed the 3 as a bail-out shot and barely took them for most of his prime. Those were the years his %'s were lowest. When he integrated them into his game, he excelled at that too. And let's not get started on his 3-ball in the highest-stakes games (disregarding the shortened-line seasons: 41% over 4 finals, that famous jaw-dropping display in G1 of the '92 finals) + a very good 35.2% on 2.2 attempts a game in the playoffs before his first retirement...for that era, that's solid long-range shooting.

And this is all despite suboptimal long-range shooting form: flat arc, released the ball at the peak of his jump…both things better-suited to the mid-range and both things he’d have likely shored up today.

When I see guys like Lopez, Bosh and Aldridge become reliable 3pt shooters a New York Minute after averaging 25% on .3 attempts a game, I don’t see why Jordan wouldn’t have been at least a serviceable 3pt shooter had he grown up today. The fact that his percentages scaled up the more he took is a revealing statistical clue.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

Yeah, 3ball is assuming the role of broken clock here because Jordan probably would be a pretty good 3pt shooter. Made that case in a private chat on another forum, might as well c + p:




And this is all despite suboptimal long-range shooting form: flat arc, released the ball at the peak of his jump…both things better-suited to the mid-range.

When I see guys like Lopez, Bosh and Aldridge become reliable 3pt shooters a New York Minute after averaging 25% on .3 attempts a game, I don’t see why Jordan wouldn’t have been at least a serviceable 3pt shooter had he grown up today. The fact that his percentages scaled up the more he took is a revealing statistical clue.

@3ball: that’s how you make a case for Jordan. You’re welcome.

[Duffy Pratt]

No one cares about anyone's efficiency at the shortened line, since it was essentially a long-two and more contested than a regular 3-pointer from regular line due to crappier spacing/shorter court to defend... so the efficiency from shortened line matters little.. only the efficiency from regular line matters, and as the stats from post #19 show, Jordan always shot well when he had 3+ attempts - this includes 539 attempts from 85-93' in regular season games that he had 3+ attempts (36.4%) and 135 attempts at 39% in series that he had 3+ attempts (regular line only, so excluding 95-97').. Essentially, he shot 36-39% without practice or even wanting to be good at the shot - he thought (mistakenly in theory but correct in reality) that the shot took away from his game (see video here).

You answered my first sentence and completely ignored everything else I said. Instead you just repeated yourself, which is your modus operandi. Somehow, you seem to think if you keep saying the same thing over and over, and someone else gives up talking to you, you have somehow ‘won.’ Ho-hum.

[3ba11]

Those were under sized shooting guards.

Drexler, Theus, Miller, Majerle, Ellis, Augmon and many more were oversized.. your point?

[3ba11]

Yes.

But given the nature of the idea (as I’ve already said) I think it’s fair to say Jordan would be a better 3pt shooter in this era. I think that’s a given.

So that means he would shoot better than 36.4% in the regular season and better than 39% in the playoffs, since those were his percentages when he had 3+ attempts in his own era.. So he would be one of the better 3-point shooters in the league - and we're assuming prime Jordan is just thrown into today's game and he started working really hard at threes (so he would still have his goat drop-step power off 2 feet, footwork, and everything else that he already had - basically, if we just added today's spaced-out beginner format to Jordan's existing game, he would average 50 like everyone says he would)

[3ba11]

.
mid-range form at 3-point distance

And this is all despite suboptimal long-range shooting form: flat arc, released the ball at the peak of his jump…both things better-suited to the mid-range and both things he’d have likely shored up today.

that type of form is better suited for mid-range only because players cannot pull off their mid-range form at 3-point distance - so they don't elevate as much from 3-point distance, while their lower strength at that distance forces a more loft-type set shot and higher arc - it's more of a woman's shot that you see in the wnba game..

Otoh, Jordan is one of the only guys along with say Ray Allen, that could maintain their mid-range form at 3-point distance (high elevation and option for line-drive arc if desired).. Very few shooters have this strength & athletic ability and Allen was one of the more athletic great shooters ever, just like Jordan.. As Jordan showed many times, it was completely standard for his talent level to extend his mid-range form to 3-point range (shown above in 2 gifs - and btw, there's 3 gifs in the previous post above this one that show MJ with mid-range form at HALFCOURT distance - MJ probably didn't start using wnba form until full court shots).

And it's well-known that mid-range form makes shots better against contests than the wnba 3-point form that most nba players use.. Only guys like MJ or Allen were actually as advanced as they're supposed to be as NBA shooters.. Mid-range form at 3-point distance is why I've said many times that Jordan would be shooting turnaround fadeaways from three in today's game... this idea that you need to dumb down long distance shots to a wnba style and strength level is absurd, aka set shot and loft style that can't handle contests as well.

[3ba11]

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in addition to the high elevation off the ground and lower arc shown to Peja in the previous post (mid-range form at 3-point distance), the goat off-guard sill had the catch-and-shoot game and high arc on set shots - notice the big hands and control of release:





of course there's also his great FT shooting and the last shot vs Russell that showed his follow through

[RogueBorg]

Those were under sized shooting guards.

Dumars is taller than you by a foot...at least.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

So that means he would shoot better than 36.4% in the regular season and better than 39% in the playoffs, since those were his percentages when he had 3+ attempts in his own era.. So he would be one of the better 3-point shooters in the league - and we're assuming prime Jordan is just thrown into today's game and he started working really hard at threes (so he would still have his goat drop-step power off 2 feet, footwork, and everything else that he already had - basically, if we just added today's spaced-out beginner format to Jordan's existing game, he would average 50 like everyone says he would)

None of this follows from what I argued. Best we can say is that there’s good reason to believe he’d be a good three point shooter, based on a few seasons within his career where he took it seriously. Anything else is pure speculation.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

.

that type of form is better suited for mid-range only because players cannot pull off their mid-range form at 3-point distance - so they don't elevate as much from 3-point distance, while their lower strength at that distance forces a more loft-type set shot and higher arc - it's more of a woman's shot that you see in the wnba game..

Otoh, Jordan is one of the only guys along with say Ray Allen, that could maintain their mid-range form at 3-point distance (high elevation and option for line-drive arc if desired).. Very few shooters have this strength & athletic ability and Allen was one of the more athletic great shooters ever, just like Jordan.. As Jordan showed many times, it was completely standard for his talent level to extend his mid-range form to 3-point range (shown above in 2 gifs - and btw, there's 3 gifs in the previous post above this one that show MJ with mid-range form at HALFCOURT distance - MJ probably didn't start using wnba form until full court shots).

And it's well-known that mid-range form makes shots better against contests than the wnba 3-point form that most nba players use.. Only guys like MJ or Allen were actually as advanced as they're supposed to be as NBA shooters.. Mid-range form at 3-point distance

Thanks for the essay, but it’s probably safe to assume he’d have a higher shot arc in todays game from longer ranges.

why I've said many times that Jordan would be shooting turnaround fadeaways from three in today's game...

HOF quote lol.

[sdot_thadon]

.
mid-range form at 3-point distance












that type of form is better suited for mid-range only because players cannot pull off their mid-range form at 3-point distance - so they don't elevate as much from 3-point distance, while their lower strength at that distance forces a more loft-type set shot and higher arc - it's more of a woman's shot that you see in the wnba game..

Otoh, Jordan is one of the only guys along with say Ray Allen, that could maintain their mid-range form at 3-point distance (high elevation and option for line-drive arc if desired).. Very few shooters have this strength & athletic ability and Allen was one of the more athletic great shooters ever, just like Jordan.. As Jordan showed many times, it was completely standard for his talent level to extend his mid-range form to 3-point range (shown above in 2 gifs - and btw, there's 3 gifs in the previous post above this one that show MJ with mid-range form at HALFCOURT distance - MJ probably didn't start using wnba form until full court shots).

And it's well-known that mid-range form makes shots better against contests than the wnba 3-point form that most nba players use.. Only guys like MJ or Allen were actually as advanced as they're supposed to be as NBA shooters.. Mid-range form at 3-point distance is why I've said many times that Jordan would be shooting turnaround fadeaways from three in today's game... this idea that you need to dumb down long distance shots to a wnba style and strength level is absurd, aka set shot and loft style that can't handle contests as well.

And in all this he basically becomes Kobe Bryant. Shooting a handful of 3s a game at 36-38% most likely and that's if we're absolutely certain he improves rather than shoot what weve seen him shoot. Those 5 or 6 attempts come at let's say 38% rather than his normal 50ish% Does his fg% drop into the high 40s percentage wise like a good Kobe Bryant year? What about the nights it's just not working, does he keep.shooting? In turn does that drop his holy PER to a lower tier? You might have just made Mj decidedly worse than your favorite player.

[3ba11]

And in all this he basically becomes Kobe Bryant. Shooting a handful of 3s a game at 36-38% most likely and that's if we're absolutely certain he improves rather than shoot what weve seen him shoot.

MJ was already at 36-39% in his era, so we know he would be better today with practice, and therefore one of the better 3-point shooters in the league.

Again, we already know that he shot 36-39% when he had 3+ attempts - this was over a big sample - so again, he already shot 36-39% without practice, so we know he would shoot 40% or better with practice in today's game (see thread title).. it's quite simple and even peja agrees with me