DeAndre Ayton would be a star on the Warriors

[bdonovan]

A player's performance is highly influenced by their teammates and coach. If you have incompatible or selfish teammates or if you have a coach who doesn't value your play/position, you're not going to reach your potential.

Look at Tyrese Haliburton on the Kings, didn't even start many games his first year and a 3rd option his second. Now running the best offense in the NBA on the Pacers.

Say what you want about the Suns, they have selfish leaders in Booker and Durant- neither are known to facilitate, both are self-oriented scorers.

Monty Williams is one of these coaches that doesn't understand how to coach big men. This seems true of virtually all former NBA players who become NBA coaches- whether it's Doc Rivers, Monty Williams or Ayton's current coach Chauncey Billups.

These are all guards/forwards who never understood the center position (and were often biased by their own playing experience). Rivers once said centers shouldn't be giving scoring opportunities, just put-backs.

Steph Curry knows how to win, period. He knows how to get the best out of the personnel. That's why the Warriors have won 4 times, with very different personnel. Look at Andrew Wiggins growth after coming to the Warriors. He absolutely is a facilitator and knows how to get the ball to people in the optimal position for them.

So does Draymond Green who is one of the best passers to big men in the league; he's shown he can do that with Wiseman, with Bogut, Cousins, JeVale McGee. Setting them up every time when they had position down low or alley-oop dunks.

DeAndre Ayton has one of the best touches in the game as a big man. He just elevates and he's got that accurate toss from the post position or mid-range (5th best mid-range in the game, just behind Steph Curry).

Ayton has his critics most of which are misguided in two ways:

* They assume he is a worse player than he is simply because Booker and Durant didn't pass him the ball. Or that Monty Williams didn't emphasize him in the offense. They are seeing the OUTCOMES of sub-optimal teammates and coaching, not Ayton's own limits.

* They get stuck in the whole Alpha/Beta nonsense.

Do you think Steph worries if he's an alpha or beta? The Warriors don't care about stuff like that, they play to win. To do that, you maximize each player's potential. Ayton's scoring has gone down this year from ~18 points/game to less than 13 because his FGA are down. Billups is failing at his job to prioritize Ayton in the offense.

Blazers are 6-15 this year. They have guys like Jerami Grant shooting 17 times a game with a 43% shooting, while Ayton shoots 10 times at 58%. You have Malcolm Brogdon thinking he's a scorer shooting 15 times a game at 41%. EFG makes the picture a bit better, but still.

Kerr for all his faults will tell a player to stop shooting sub-optimally. Like telling Draymond to stop shooting 3's. You go where you can get efficiency but Billups is just letting the players play.

If Ayton were on the Warriors, he'd be an All-Star. They value shooting not who has the cockiness to shoot the ball the most.

[Wardell Curry]

A player's performance is highly influenced by their teammates and coach.

No way. Basketball is a 1 on 1 sport. Also, all the players are static and there is no such thing as dynamic play. All players fit the same for every team.

[NBAGOAT]

the lack of mention of 1 guy here makes your point moot. chris paul was there to elevate ayton the whole time in phx. One of the best guys ever at elevating big men. ayton has a bunch of flaws the warriors cant fix. His fg% is low for a big who scores 80% of his points in the paint(last year and so far this year) because he's such a finesse player and unwilling to go up strong. Also why he has such an awful foul rate for a big who scores in the paint. Nowhere near a good enough scorer in the post for any team to make it a heavy part of their offense. scored 0.96ppp last year that's 50th percintile ish. No passing game at all the separate him from other role guys at center. More switchable than most centers and good 1v1 defender in the post yes but lowkey a bad rim protector. Under 1bpg last 3 seasons. He's a bit above average defender at a position full of great defenders. i take looney over him on defense

[Im Still Ballin]

He has limitations, as mentioned by NBAGOAT, but I do think GSW would get the most out of him. They lack a true center and his slick finesse game would fit within Steve's offense. But at his salary? No Bueno!

[NBAGOAT]

He has limitations, as mentioned by NBAGOAT, but I do think GSW would get the most out of him. They lack a true center and his slick finesse game would fit within Steve's offense. But at his salary? No Bueno!

warriors are desperate to trade klay for anything tbf. a lineup of curry moody wiggins dray ayton is still going nowhere

[FKAri]

Warriors have had some rough luck last few years. And it especially hurts because Curry's contending window is closing.

[bdonovan]

the lack of mention of 1 guy here makes your point moot. chris paul was there to elevate ayton the whole time in phx. One of the best guys ever at elevating big men. ayton has a bunch of flaws the warriors cant fix. His fg% is low for a big who scores 80% of his points in the paint(last year and so far this year) because he's such a finesse player and unwilling to go up strong. Also why he has such an awful foul rate for a big who scores in the paint. Nowhere near a good enough scorer in the post for any team to make it a heavy part of their offense. scored 0.96ppp last year that's 50th percintile ish. No passing game at all the separate him from other role guys at center. More switchable than most centers and good 1v1 defender in the post yes but lowkey a bad rim protector. Under 1bpg last 3 seasons. He's a bit above average defender at a position full of great defenders. i take looney over him on defense

Chris Paul is not Steph Curry.

And the Suns iSO-heavy offense is not the Warriors motion, team-first offense.

The rest you're kind of just attempting to throw things at the wall and see what sticks. For reference, Ayton and Jokic have the same 2 pt FG% this year at 59%. So much for low FG%.

His foul rate is the same as Jokic- 2.6 a game, with comparable minutes. Is Jokic's foul rate a problem?

And it talks past the point I was making which is you want him to get more touches in better position on a team that knows how to distribute the ball. My point is that he's under-optimized/mis-used on his current/past team.

Looney is not a starting center. Every but Steve Kerr (who's obsessed with fundamentally sound players) knows this.

Though he was a competent scorer on a good team (18 pts/game on Suns at high efficiency), the point he can get to the next level with the right coaching & right team-oriented offense. Ayton already is a brilliant shooter, as I pointed out 5th in the league in mid-range, better than Jokic. He has one of the smoothest and most accurate shots in the game. What you need is a supportive environment that values efficiency, which the Blazers clearly do not.

He's never been on a team that's proven they can win the championship. He's been on teams where teammates are more eager to score regardless of efficiency for their own glory. Would be interesting to see how his potential on a team that values winning more than their own personal stats.

[Xiao Yao You]

GS isn't going to give the guy heart

[NBAGOAT]

Chris Paul is not Steph Curry.

And the Suns iSO-heavy offense is not the Warriors motion, team-first offense.

The rest you're kind of just attempting to throw things at the wall and see what sticks. For reference, Ayton and Jokic have the same 2 pt FG% this year at 59%. So much for low FG%.

His foul rate is the same as Jokic- 2.6 a game, with comparable minutes. Is Jokic's foul rate a problem?

And it talks past the point I was making which is you want him to get more touches in better position on a team that knows how to distribute the ball. My point is that he's under-optimized/mis-used on his current/past team.

Looney is not a starting center. Every but Steve Kerr (who's obsessed with fundamentally sound players) knows this.

Though he was a competent scorer on a good team (18 pts/game on Suns at high efficiency), the point he can get to the next level with the right coaching & right team-oriented offense. Ayton already is a brilliant shooter, as I pointed out 5th in the league in mid-range, better than Jokic. He has one of the smoothest and most accurate shots in the game. What you need is a supportive environment that values efficiency, which the Blazers clearly do not.

He's never been on a team that's proven they can win the championship. He's been on teams where teammates are more eager to score regardless of efficiency for their own glory. Would be interesting to see how his potential on a team that values winning more than their own personal stats.

in terms of just passing out of the pnr chris paul is better than steph curry so you're right chris paul is no steph curry.

Jokic is the best midrange shooter maybe in the league and creates his own offense on high usg. Ayton is a low usage guy who scores mostly off assists. You cannot compare them besides foul rate and yes jokic gets screwed a bit by the refs and is also having a down year.

Ayton being slightly above average in ts% doesnt impress me at all when many guys with his usage are scoring at 65ts%+. it's not me who mainly said this it's suns fans who watched him for years. Those more efficient years came with prime cp3 he scored 14 and 17ppg those years. not terribly impressive with a playmaker like cp3 in this era. Gobert put 15ppg on close to 70ts% in utah, capela was putting up 14ppg on 65ts% in houston. These guys are not terribly skilled on paper yet put up similar production to ayton. Kinda shows Ayton isnt using his talent fully. Ayton's also a black hole on offense who even with his scoring "skills" should be a role guy. Looney is a significantly better passer than ayton and and a starting caliber center

saying he's never been on a team that's proven they can win a championship is comical when they made the finals in 2021. the warriors right now sure as hell arent at the lvl of the 21 suns.