Is the Holmgren-Wemby situation the new Melo-Bron rookie year thing?

[Full Court]

I would've said the same thing 10 games ago but recently I saw something changing. On the other hand I saw the two of them combined in less than 10 games this season, so a lot of my 'opinion' is based only on highlights and stats. In other words: my opinion simply doesn't count.

There's still half a season left. Plenty of time for Wemby to run away with it. He certainly has the potential.

[Xiao Yao You]

^ I didn't really took a side in the Melo vs. Bron debate in their rookie years but I actually did like LeBron's game back then. I remember having thought he would be more of a Magic Johnson type of player in his first 2-3 years and I loved what I saw. He changed his playing style and I didn't like the result. I still don't like it, even though it's efficient. Just don't like to watch. However, I never thouhht Melo was better. In their first year I simply couldn't decide and then it got one-sided pretty fast.

As I type this, I remember my (probably) biggest mistake about talent in the NBA. I was absolutely sure for long-long years that Deron Williams is/would be better than Chris Paul and I was looking forward to becoming a prophet in this regard. My opinion I wrote long paragraphs about didn't age well.

Jazz thought so too. Ron Boone the only guy not to vote Paul ROTY might still think so because Deron beat him head to head

[Duffy Pratt]

Deserve will have nothing to do with it. The league is investing a lot in creating the Wemby narrative, so he will get the award regardless of what either do from here on out. And he may actually become the player they are hyping him to be.

[ILLsmak]

I think we all knew deep down Bron would be better, but Melo was winning. He could have conceivably won ROY. But I don't think people really thought he'd have a better career, but he is underrated.

So, in terms of their rookie year, maybe, but I don't think it can be overstated that DUDE ISN'T A ROOKIE.

-Smak

[Xiao Yao You]

I think we all knew deep down Bron would be better, but Melo was winning. He could have conceivably won ROY. But I don't think people really thought he'd have a better career, but he is underrated.

So, in terms of their rookie year, maybe, but I don't think it can be overstated that DUDE ISN'T A ROOKIE.

-Smak

not sure how he could ever be considered underrated. One of the most overrated players of his day certainly. He was talked about with the top players in the game which he never was one no matter how much he hyped himself to be one

[ILLsmak]

not sure how he could ever be considered underrated. One of the most overrated players of his day certainly. He was talked about with the top players in the game which he never was one no matter how much he hyped himself to be one

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-ulMP5Ep9EU

-Smak

[Kblaze8855]

not sure how he could ever be considered underrated. One of the most overrated players of his day certainly. He was talked about with the top players in the game which he never was one no matter how much he hyped himself to be one

The top players in the game are the ones who were calling him a top player in the game. I’ve certainly heard other Hall of Fame caliber guys talk about Melo more than I’ve heard him talk about himself. True or not it isn’t some narrative he came up with. The people who had to guard him were always his biggest proponents.

[Xiao Yao You]

He always thought he was something more than he was from the time he bitched about not making the all star game as a rookie over a deserving AK and talking like he alone was the difference in an improved Denver squad that added Andre Miller and Camby to the time he was 'a starter only' and the Jazz put him on an island to win the series

[Xiao Yao You]

oh and let's not forget him ending Linsanity because he didn't like winning as a 2nd fiddle

[ILLsmak]

oh and let's not forget him ending Linsanity because he didn't like winning as a 2nd fiddle

I don't think Linsanity was gonna last rofl. He prol did the kid a favor.

-Smak

[Xiao Yao You]

I don't think Linsanity was gonna last rofl. He prol did the kid a favor.

-Smak

probably wouldn't have but it was working and they were winning which wasn't the case most of his tenure there. Poor Carmelo and what he wants is more important though. Got his trade to NY instead of waiting to be a free agent and lost his supporting cast in the process. As long as he got paid and got the ball nothing else mattered though

[ILLsmak]

probably wouldn't have but it was working and they were winning which wasn't the case most of his tenure there. Poor Carmelo and what he wants is more important though. Got his trade to NY instead of waiting to be a free agent and lost his supporting cast in the process. As long as he got paid and got the ball nothing else mattered though

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/toronto-...cash-earnings/

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/2...th-anniversary

Didn't he get injured anyway?

-Smak

[ShawkFactory]

as one of the few here, who remembers all of those people? That’s a pretty ridiculous statement. They were all scorers who didn’t do very much else. And Dantley was an even bigger ball stopper than Carmelo at times. Sure he was unstoppable. If you let him go 1 on 1 with anybody for seven seconds or play off him 5 feet in the midrange trying to stop him driving, but he wasn’t a defender at all. Wasn’t a special passer. His teams didn’t do anything except the one that won a title when they traded him for an arguably worse player.

and Alex English was basically Carmelo, but an even worse defender on a much higher pace team before players were expected to take shooting percentage wrecking three pointers. He was a beast making contested 12 footers, and I have made a topic or two pointing that out, but he was absolutely not a better player than Carmelo Anthony and he was on teams that started multiple Hall of Famers that did nothing to suggest he was.

Bernard was quicker than all of them with a goat touch at 12 feet so I would say Alex was the closest of those to him in style. I would take Bernard King first Of this group, but it doesn’t matter who you take second. If theyre your best player, you’re not gonna do anything much. Win 50 maybe. Maybe a conference finals a decade. But there is definitely nothing total game wise to separate them all. Melo is arguably a better ball handler and passer than all three. Had more range than all three. Was probably the best defender of the four on the rare occasion any of the four defense. And none of them won anything he didn’t on a team that needed them to do it.

It has to be the closest group of players I’ve ever seen anybody pretend one didn’t belong in. The elevated shooting percentages of the bad defensive 80s west doesn’t make them better at basketball anymore than the elevated scores now make all these guys better.

Skill set level wise? They’re all the same player except for Bernards ability to consistently make a tough shot even when you know what he’s going to do. And he did it quicker than AD or Melo so I’d rather have him as my guy. Not a ball stopper for his 30.

All on the same floor though?

They’re gonna give you about 30 points and little defense and do little else worth talking about. Just a matter of if it’s 11 of 22 or nine of 20 with melo taking a few threes which depending on the era might help with spacing.

Drop Carmelo in 1983 on a team that’s going to score 120 something a game in a time that would let you go one on one and just rotate ineffective defenders for most of the game?

They would all be about the same level. Bernard a half step up. Dantley will still shoot better, but he shot better while getting his ass kicked at the time. The rest of the league shooting better due to no threes, negated the impact of the difference.

Not to stick up for Xiao. It I don’t think he was saying Carmelo didn’t belong in that group of guys. I think the opposite.

But that that group wasn’t really anything special we hadn’t seen before and Bron was even when they were putting up similar numbers as rookies.