Where do you rank Donovan Mitchell?

[RRR3]

He and the Cavs have been on fire lately (Cleveland is 16-1 in their last 17, including 8 in a row), but it's not really getting talked about. Obviously he is not on the same tier as guys like Jokic/Embiid/Giannis/Shai, but is he in the next tier? Where exactly would you rank him in the league? Top 10? Top 20? Lower? Higher?

For what it's worth he's averaging 28.5/5.5/6.3/1.9/0.5 on .476/.359/.863 shooting (60.1 TS%). He has an EPM of +8.8, which ranks in the 97th percentile and is 6th in the NBA, grading out extremely well on offense and even pretty solidly on defense. If you like more traditional box score based advanced stats, he has a 23.8 PER, .195 ws/48 and a 7.5 BPM.


And yes, "can't quit me"

[FultzNationRISE]

I said it when he left Utah, I never really felt like his offensive output in the playoffs translated to uplifting the team. Not because of the results but because I observed it when they played. I felt he was a talented scorer, but a scorer with tunnel vision who doesnt really read the game and mainly just knows how to get his own points. It’s not an attitude or demeanor issue I think he’s just not adept in that area.

Cleveland’s first round disappointment last year confirmed my assessment pretty much to a tee. Whether or not enough has changed this season in terms of supporting cast and Mitchell’s own play I dont know. My suspicion is they are NOT a serious threat in the playoffs, but we wont know for sure until they start.

[Xiao Yao You]

being a turnstile on D doesn't help

[Carbine]

He doesn't have quite the cast to say he should be winning anything. If he lifts them to a WCF the perception of him will change to be a top tier player just below the likes of Booker.

[RRR3]

I said it when he left Utah, I never really felt like his offensive output in the playoffs translated to uplifting the team. Not because of the results but because I observed it when they played. I felt he was a talented scorer, but a scorer with tunnel vision who doesnt really read the game and mainly just knows how to get his own points. It’s not an attitude or demeanor issue I think he’s just not adept in that area.

Cleveland’s first round disappointment last year confirmed my assessment pretty much to a tee. Whether or not enough has changed this season in terms of supporting cast and Mitchell’s own play I dont know. My suspicion is they are NOT a serious threat in the playoffs, but we wont know for sure until they start.

I don't disagree but similar things were said about many guys who have won rings, though, so I don't think Mitchell is incapable of winning. I would say barring extremely fortunate circumstances he is incapable of winning as a first option, but absolutely could see him winning as a sidekick. He's a flawed player for sure, but by all metrics one of the more valuable guy in the league. So you don't want to put him in the same convo as the super top tier guys who don't have such drawbacks, but he's gotta be in the convo for top 15 at least by this point right?

[RRR3]

He doesn't have quite the cast to say he should be winning anything. If he lifts them to a WCF the perception of him will change to be a top tier player just below the likes of Booker.

I find him to be a very similar player to Booker honestly. But if Mitchell leads the Cavs to the WCF, he's the GOAT because that is impossible.

[Kblaze8855]

Cleveland’s first round disappointment last year confirmed my assessment pretty much to a tee.

it confirmed absolutely nothing. Much better players than Donovan. Mitchell have suffered much more crushing and unlikely defeats and played considerably worse and that also confirmed nothing. And if they go to the conference finals this year, it won’t confirm you were wrong. Players are who they are. Worse players than him have led great teams and better players than him have gone over a decade and not won a playoff series. All of that kind of shit is result based confirmation bias.

Most of that “learning how to win” shit is just that.

They aren’t gonna lose in the playoffs because you’re right or wrong. Theyre gonna lose because the Celtics and Bucks should definitely beat them and as many as 4 other matchups are a tossup or worse depending on health. They could absolutely lose to the Heat. Wouldnt be some major upset regardless of record. The Heat are talented and amazingly well coached.

Theyre definitely gonna lose eventually but it won’t be because of any missing “it” factor. The team just isn’t that good. They’re ok. But nobody expects them to do giant things just by looking at the roster and where their guys are development wise compared to at least 4 teams of prime, playoff tested, star studded lineups with MVPs and 4-5 stars.

[Xiao Yao You]

it confirmed absolutely nothing. Much better players than Donovan. Mitchell have suffered much more crushing and unlikely defeats and played considerably worse and that also confirmed nothing. And if they go to the conference finals this year, it won’t confirm you were wrong. Players are who they are. Worse players than him have led great teams and better players than him have gone over a decade and not won a playoff series. All of that kind of shit is result based confirmation bias.

Most of that “learning how to win” shit is just that.

They aren’t gonna lose in the playoffs because you’re right or wrong. Theyre gonna lose because the Celtics and Bucks should definitely beat them and as many as 4 other matchups are a tossup or worse depending on health. They could absolutely lose to the Heat. Wouldnt be some major upset regardless of record. The Heat are talented and amazingly well coached.

Theyre definitely gonna lose eventually but it won’t be because of any missing “it” factor. The team just isn’t that good. They’re ok. But nobody expects them to do giant things just by looking at the roster and where their guys are development wise compared to at least 4 teams of prime, playoff tested, star studded lineups with MVPs and 4-5 stars.

and yet Gobert was supposed to go to the conference finals with worse talent while not playing an 8th seed or being in a weak eastern conference

[RRR3]

Kblaze would I be right in assuming you're a fan of Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley?

[Xiao Yao You]

can't quit me!

[FultzNationRISE]

it confirmed absolutely nothing.

Umm, I watched him play and he performed exactly as I described when he left Utah, and it was a contributing factor to their result. Not the only factor, but he was once again limited as a playmaker beyond seeking his own shot, and that was part of why they were upset by the lower seeded Knicks. The Cavs looked like the less organized, less competent offense, and much of that owed to Mitchell being the primary playmaker. It was the same situation we saw in Utah. He doesnt appear to adjust to playoff defenses well, except to just keep shooting, even when thats what the opponent wants. He’ll get his points but they arent productive points in terms of building a strategy off of. His basketball instincts are not strong for a first option. That is a fact.

So yes, him once again playing like the guy I described confirmed that he is the guy I described.

I never said he cant or wont be on a winning team in any capacity. I said his skillset relative to the role he played last year was a factor in why they lost last year. And that is a fact.

[Xiao Yao You]

he was a baseball player turned basketball player because of injury

[FultzNationRISE]

Contrast that with SGA, whom as I pointed out before was able to use himself perfectly as a decoy in the first half of OKC’s play-in game last year which got his teammates going, and then when the opponent adjusted in the second half to stop his teammates, Shai capitalized and punished them.

Guys have different abilities to read and react. It’s just not Mitchell’s strong suit. Therefore a team needs to adjust his ROLE accordingly, and not expect “hes our supirstaR so give him the ball and t@ke over!!”

If thats the role hes gonna play, then no he will never win. Period.

[Phoenix]

He's in the tier with Jimmy Butler, Paul George, Kyrie, Dame and Booker. Better on some nights, worse on others.

[Xiao Yao You]

He's in the tier with Jimmy Butler, Paul George, Kyrie, Dame and Booker. Better on some nights, worse on others.

He's not up with guys that do more than just score the basketball