It's crazy how much circumstance plays into our perception of how good players are

[3ba11]

Didn't porzingas begin his career alongside Doncic?

How was he going to develop being turned into spot-up shooter alongside a high-scoring ball-dominator like Luka or Lebron?

It's no surprise that he looks great alongside an expert jumpshooter Tatum the same way Wiggins, Pippen and Westbrook looked better alongside Curry or Jordan or Kawhi

So there's a massive history of guys looking good alongside expert jumpshooter like Curry, Kobe, MJ, Dirk, Bird, Kawhi, Durant etc like Westbrook made Finals with Durant or Pau becoming all-nba with kobe..... Then there's a massive history of guys cratering alongside ball-dominators like Luka, Lebron (Porzingas, Brunson, IT, Westbrook, Bosh, Ingram, Love and more cratered)

It's history

[ShawkFactory]

Didn't porzingas begin his career alongside Doncic?

How was he going to develop being turned into spot-up shooter alongside a high-scoring ball-dominator like Luka or Lebron?

It's no surprise that he looks great alongside an expert jumpshooter Tatum the same way Wiggins, Pippen and Westbrook looked better alongside Curry or Jordan or Kawhi

So there's a massive history of guys looking good alongside expert jumpshooter like Curry, Kobe, MJ, Dirk, Bird, Kawhi, Durant etc like Westbrook made Finals with Durant or Pau becoming all-nba with kobe..... Then there's a massive history of guys cratering alongside ball-dominators like Luka, Lebron (Porzingas, Brunson, IT, Westbrook, Bosh, Ingram, Love and more cratered)

It's history

No.

[3ba11]

No.

That was his first major stint or tenure anywhere

Luka had bad fits with Porzingas and Brunson, while Lebron had bad fits with Bosh, Love, Westbrook, Ingram and many more

So it's clear that high-scoring ball-dominators have bad fits and can't grow young players either (can't win organically), while expert jumpshooters (Kawhi, Tatum, Curry, MJ) have great fits with everyone and grew many young players (won organically)

Again, it's history - I'm just reciting the historical record

[ShawkFactory]

That was his first major stint or tenure anywhere

Luka had bad fits with Porzingas and Brunson, while Lebron had bad fits with Bosh, Love, Westbrook, Ingram and many more

So it's clear that high-scoring ball-dominators have bad fits and can't grow young players either (can't win organically), while expert jumpshooters (Kawhi, Tatum, Curry, MJ) have great fits with everyone and grew many young players (won organically)

Again, it's history - I'm just reciting the historical record

It was not.

[90sgoat]

His first major stint was with Knicks in a situation similar to Wemby with no point guards and a bunch of nobodies trying to get a contract instead of feeding the big man.

Even so, in his second season, he averaged like 30/10 in the first 20 games before his injuries and iron deficiency issues set in and he got injured. Zingis was a star from the beginning.

It's true though that Doncic is the only player that Zingis has played with that made him lose confidence and go stand in a corner. In all other 3 ballclubs, he's been able to play his game. The fact that Doncic was too much of an egomaniac to share the spotlight with Zingis is a real blight on his career.

[Axe]

Didn't porzingas begin his career alongside Doncic?

How was he going to develop being turned into spot-up shooter alongside a high-scoring ball-dominator like Luka or Lebron?

It's no surprise that he looks great alongside an expert jumpshooter Tatum the same way Wiggins, Pippen and Westbrook looked better alongside Curry or Jordan or Kawhi

So there's a massive history of guys looking good alongside expert jumpshooter like Curry, Kobe, MJ, Dirk, Bird, Kawhi, Durant etc like Westbrook made Finals with Durant or Pau becoming all-nba with kobe..... Then there's a massive history of guys cratering alongside ball-dominators like Luka, Lebron (Porzingas, Brunson, IT, Westbrook, Bosh, Ingram, Love and more cratered)

It's history

1-9

[FultzNationRISE]

His first major stint was with Knicks in a situation similar to Wemby with no point guards and a bunch of nobodies trying to get a contract instead of feeding the big man.

Even so, in his second season, he averaged like 30/10 in the first 20 games before his injuries and iron deficiency issues set in and he got injured. Zingis was a star from the beginning.

It's true though that Doncic is the only player that Zingis has played with that made him lose confidence and go stand in a corner. In all other 3 ballclubs, he's been able to play his game. The fact that Doncic was too much of an egomaniac to share the spotlight with Zingis is a real blight on his career.

Doncic did not do that, the organization made the decision to move him to the perimeter after they originally started out posting him up and feeding him like a traditional big man and it didnt go well. He wasnt good at playing in the post at that time, so they consciously made him a perimeter shooter. It was a coaching decision and there's an article on ESPN about it. For whatever reason it never seemed to occur to them to find the middle ground of using him like a rim runner which is actually where he's most dangerous. But it was definitely a scheming issue, not Luka's decision. I'll post the article in a moment.

[90sgoat]

Doncic did not do that, the organization made the decision to move him to the perimeter after they originally started out posting him up and feeding him like a traditional big man and it didnt go well. He wasnt good at playing in the post at that time, so they consciously made him a perimeter shooter. It was a coaching decision and there's an article on ESPN about it. For whatever reason it never seemed to occur to them to find the middle ground of using him like a rim runner which is actually where he's most dangerous. But it was definitely a scheming issue, not Luka's decision. I'll post the article in a moment.

Luka sabotaged Zingis since day 1.

I know what I saw. Doncic couldn't handle not being the only euro in the village.

[SouBeachTalents]

Didn't porzingas begin his career alongside Doncic?

How was he going to develop being turned into spot-up shooter alongside a high-scoring ball-dominator like Luka or Lebron?

It's no surprise that he looks great alongside an expert jumpshooter Tatum the same way Wiggins, Pippen and Westbrook looked better alongside Curry or Jordan or Kawhi

So there's a massive history of guys looking good alongside expert jumpshooter like Curry, Kobe, MJ, Dirk, Bird, Kawhi, Durant etc like Westbrook made Finals with Durant or Pau becoming all-nba with kobe..... Then there's a massive history of guys cratering alongside ball-dominators like Luka, Lebron (Porzingas, Brunson, IT, Westbrook, Bosh, Ingram, Love and more cratered)

It's history

Of course this fvcking doofus wouldn't know he was drafted by the Knicks Completely clueless.

[Axe]

Of course this fvcking doofus wouldn't know he was drafted by the Knicks Completely clueless.

And then we have a braindead psychopath here calling him the 'goat poster.'

[Real Men Wear Green]

I suppose you could think Porzingis is more valuable than Tatum if you have no idea what you're talking about.

Brown making the ASG over Porzingis was absurd. These idiots still just look at basic stats

JB averages 22 points. 5.6 boards and 3.7 assists on 49.5% shooting. He absolutely deserves to be an allstar and the subject isn't worthy of debate. Regarding Porzingis here's another basic statistic for you: 39 games. There have been a number of individual games where he had a better night than Brown. But it's not every night or extremely often and Brown has played in 49 games. Tatum and Brown are the guys that carry the offense every night, like they have for years. Porzingis may well have deserved someone else's allstar spot if he hadn't missed 14 games to date. It's very possible that he won't make the 65 game cut off mark for season awards. His impact is wonderful but a lot of you are disregarding the bread and butter in favor of the cake.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I don't know the exact reason why Porzingis and Doncic didn't work but I can tell you that in Boston he is surrounded by guys that give him the ball in goid positions for him to score. His shots are wide open threes, mismatch post up. Jumpers over defenders that can barely reach his face and finishing from the dunker spot. Most players don't have his versatility to be used as a finisher from so many different spots but if you tried to act like he's Dirk he would not be as effective. If Tatum and Brown differ to him and force fed him the ball for him to create the offense he's not going to be efficient because he doesn't have that kind of game. He isn't strong to create post position vs. a real big and isn't a ball handler to create shots off the dribble. He is great in a complimentary role. Which is why the Celtics use him the way that he do and he's having three most efficient season of his career.

[FultzNationRISE]

I don't know the exact reason why Porzingis and Doncic didn't work but I can tell you that in Boston he is surrounded by guys that give him the ball in goid positions for him to score. His shots are wide open threes, mismatch post up. Jumpers over defenders that can barely reach his face and finishing from the dunker spot. Most players don't have his versatility to be used as a finisher from so many different spots but if you tried to act like he's Dirk he would not be as effective. If Tatum and Brown differ to him and force fed him the ball for him to create the offense he's not going to be efficient because he doesn't have that kind of game. He isn't strong to create post position vs. a real big and isn't a ball handler to create shots off the dribble. He is great in a complimentary role. Which is why the Celtics use him the way that he do and he's having three most efficient season of his career.

This was the problem in Dallas. They didnt get him switches, they just played old school "throw it in to him down low and let him make a move" against regular bigs. Which was still more or less the conventional wisdom of the time. But he doesnt really have post moves and thats not his game. So instead they just told him to spot up outside.

I think people dont always appreciate how quickly offense has been evolving itself just in the last handful of years. Everyone seems to assume it's just the defense getting worse and more limited by the rules. No, offense has been refining noticeably year by year. Something that seems like a no brainer in 2024 didnt even occur to a veteran coach like Rick Carlisle in 2020, that's how quickly it's been evolving.

I think a big part of it started with Toody getting lit up on switches by Terrance Mann a few years ago, and everyone took notice, and realized just how punishing it can be to get bigs iso'd out on the perimeter in today's environment. The idea has existed forever but as perimeter shooting has gotten better its become a more and more dangerous weapon, and teams have started to realize that and adapted. This also leads to rim runners like Pingis getting big mismatches on the interior while the defender is pulled away.

[3ba11]

Of course this fvcking doofus wouldn't know he was drafted by the Knicks Completely clueless.

Luka and Porzingas was horrible fit just like Luka and Brunson, while other high-scoring ball-dominators like Lebron had many bad fits too.

SGA is kind of like 09' Lebron right now where his ball-domination is coupled with goat efficiency and athletic talent, so his team excels in the regular season but they'll get upset or underperform in the playoffs just like Lebron's attempts at organic chemistry in 09' or 10' - ball-dominators like Lebron/Luka fail by Year 7 to develop championship brand of ball or chemistry, while lower hold-time players like Jokic, Giannis, MJ, or Curry win organically by year 7.. SGA should follow the former route of luka/lebron and fail to win title by Year 7, while of course the non-ball-dominators have the capacity to develop that chemistry and normally do by Year 7.. carry on but don't say i didn't tell you

[NBAGOAT]

injuries were porzingis' main problem especially on defense. He was a worse player back then too but when he was healthy he was pretty good. was dominating in the bubble. Also going be able to exploit mismatches less being a 3rd option vs 2nd though that good post game started in washington.