Setting the record straight on the Luka-KP experiment

[FultzNationRISE]

People dont remember the actual circumstances and thus revisionist narratives abound, but the truth is the Mavericks originally played KP in the post when he got to Dallas, and Luka fed him the ball plenty. They tried to use him like a traditional big man, like an Embiid or Jokic, and the results were not good. KP did not shoot well in the post. The numbers were very clear. This was not Luka's fault.

So they made him a perimeter shooter, and what people fail to mention when they criticize that old partnership is that offensively they were a record setting offense. Luka and KP were absolutely not a failure offensively, they just couldnt get past the superteam Clippers in the playoffs and KP didnt enjoy his role, so they parted ways. But the idea they somehow werent effective together is fully revisionist. They broke up because KP wanted to do more than spot up, but it was Carlisle's decision to have him do that.

Here's an article from the time:

A different Kristaps Porzingis is leading the Mavericks alongside Luka Doncic

The topic of Kristaps Porzingis' post-ups had just been broached after the Dallas Mavericks' 102-98 win over the San Antonio Spurs on Dec. 26, and Carlisle had already heard enough.

"The post-up just isn't a good play anymore," the Mavs' head coach said. "It just isn't a good play. It's not a good play for a 7-foot-3 guy. It's a low-value situation."

But Chris Webber, the color commentator during the game, had spent much of the broadcast imploring Porzingis to go to the low block more. Hall of Famers Shaquille O'Neal and Charles Barkley loudly echoed the point during the halftime show.

"Our numbers are very substantial that when [Porzingis] spaces beyond the 3-point line, we're a historically good offensive team," Carlisle continued. "And when any of our guys go in there, our effectiveness is diminished exponentially. It's counterintuitive, I understand that, but it's a fact.

"We've got to realize," Carlisle said, "that this game has changed."

So has Porzingis' role as he moved to a new franchise. He spent his formative NBA years playing in the Knicks' post-heavy triangle. ("That offense is extinct," Carlisle said. "Look, it went extinct when Phil Jackson retired.")

Then Porzingis posted up even more often after Jackson's exit from the New York front office, when he earned an All-Star appearance despite the Knicks' losing record.

"Let's get off this stuff that KP needs to go in the post," Carlisle said. "He doesn't. He doesn't."

These are the habits the Mavs are working hard to break, part of the reprogramming of Porzingis.

He has been pushed to adapt his game to fit into a system as a sidekick and enhance the skills of a generational talent in 6-foot-7 point guard Luka Doncic, helping produce an offense that ranks as the second-most efficient in NBA history with 114.9 points per 100 possessions, despite his individual struggles.

And he's doing it all with one key development -- Porzingis had to decide he wouldn't allow his pride to get in the way of winning.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...de-luka-doncic

I know many will continue to spew whatever antiquated programming they've memorized, because people dont like having to adapt their views based on updated information. Nobody likes having to rethink anything. But the ideas that A) Doncic is the one who altered KP's role in Dallas, or B) They were not good together, is actually empirically false. It is an incorrect assertion. It is wrong.

But again, most people dont care and will continue to rely on this falsehood to justify whatever other points they wanna make.

Good job good effort.

[ArbitraryWater]

Good research & well stated

[StrongLurk]

Zing's biggest problems have been his immaturity and constant injuries. If he at least fixes his immaturity, then he can help the Celtics in the playoffs...but he can also get hurt any moment and be right back on the bench.

[SATAN]

90sgoat is right.

[FilmyCogTurner]

I watched plenty of those games back then and the problem was on both sides. After injuries KP was trying to prove himself more than actually play basketball (kinda like Klay after injuries) and Luka was reluctant to pass him the ball, maybe because of that I don't know - but I did see plenty of times where Luka looked off KP who had perfect basketball position.

[Kblaze8855]

If one guy doesn’t like playing the way he is being asked to to fit then it is a failed experiment. Buying in is probably more than half of the battle. KP spoke on it himself:

We just did not mesh together well. Sometimes it's like that in the workplace, you know? It just didn’t work out the way you expected," Porzingis added.

"Luka is a generational talent. You have to put the perfect team around him to get the maximum out of him, you know?" Porzingis said. "I just wasn't the right guy."

Kinda feels like he knew they shouldn’t be together.

[Im Still Ballin]

It's funny reading those Carlisle quotes and now seeing KP being the most effective post-up mismatch scorer in the league. He's gotten stronger and more forceful with his technique. 1.41 points per possession. Like shooting 70.5% on a two-point shot.

[FultzNationRISE]

If one guy doesn’t like playing the way he is being asked to to fit then it is a failed experiment. Buying in is probably more than half of the battle. KP spoke on it himself:


Kinda feels like he knew they shouldn’t be together.

Sure, a failure in terms of personal comfort/compatibility, which led to an unsustainable partnership.

But they did not fail to produce offensively, in fact very much the opposite. They were historically good for a stretch, at least in terms of statistical production. I think a lot of the present narrative suggests they were somehow ineffective together because of the fact they got split up. But that line of thinking just isnt correct.

[Kblaze8855]

If anything what you’re saying makes it an even larger failure. If it’s statistically on point and they still can’t put up with it and it has to be ended that’s evidence of a deeper issue. Even “normal” people don’t wanna go to work every day and hate how they are deployed. Don’t care if the company does well if you hate going to work.

Personality and fit in the scheme is just as important as the X’s and O’s. I bet it would work to make Shaq a roll specialist trying to crash into the lane all day instead of post up.

But if he hates it…he’s gonna destroy your team from the inside. So is it still smart to run it?

Gotta account for more than the numbers. Coaches have to do more than come up with what would work if players were robots who didn’t need to be comfortable in their roles.

[tpols]

It's funny reading those Carlisle quotes and now seeing KP being the most effective post-up mismatch scorer in the league. He's gotten stronger and more forceful with his technique. 1.41 points per possession. Like shooting 70.5% on a two-point shot.

That's probably exactly why he didn't fit with Luka.. a team that prioritizes PnR over post ups. Although I do think Zingis has got better since Dallas. White people grow slower... Luka and Porzingis are way stronger than they were 4 years ago.

[3ba11]

.
Time of possession per game (minutes of hold-time):

1. Luka............. 8.7 minutes

31. Tatum......... 4.8


^^^^ This kind of ball-dominance yields spot-up options for Porzingas or your-turn-my-turn, whereas Boston has him more part of an equitable system, so he doesn't have to iso in Boston and his play-finishing opportunities are a little more diverse than just spot-up threes like in Dallas.. that's what the numbers show

[Doomsday Dallas]

[90sgoat]

If one guy doesn’t like playing the way he is being asked to to fit then it is a failed experiment. Buying in is probably more than half of the battle. KP spoke on it himself:

Kinda feels like he knew they shouldn’t be together.

KP was being professional and mature.

It's why he is on Celtics today.

He could easily have gone out and said some things, but he kept it professional and his career is better for it. KP was the ultimate professional in Dallas. His so called "rep" really had to do with a shitty situation in New York.

[beasted]

The more important subject is how did the team fumble away/lose with a lineup of Luka, Brunson, THJ, DFS, KP. Total lack of patience and the ability to develop an offense to maximize your talent. SMH.

[BarberSchool]

It’s strange that KP is much much better timing his own jump for monster put back dunks, than he is reading someone else’s timing to finish lobs.