You have to build a team around an ATG PF. Who do you pick? rank/order who you'd pick

[Im Still Ballin]

This isn't about who you think is highest up on the all-time rankings list. This isn't about who you think has had the best career. Longevity, accumulated stats, and number of awards aren't important here. I'm solely concerned with a player's ability at their best and constructing a team around them.

The era is also an issue due to different rules. Let's say the 2000s. This is a period of time when both old-school and new-school styles could equally succeed. You had post-up and jump-shooting PFs both thriving. And enough of the new school pick-and-roll, three-point shooting, ball handling element was there.

Here are my picks:

1) Tim Duncan

- My first pick is Tim Duncan because he's an elite two-way player whose style of offense - back-to-the-basket/rim pressure - is my preference. I feel comfortable building my offense around a guy who plays out of the post, can exert foul pressure, but also has enough counters and shooting range. And as a classic rim protector and sturdy rebounder, on defense it just makes sense.

2) Kevin McHale

- My second pick is Kevin McHale because, like Duncan, he's an elite two-way player who is a dominant post-up player. He's a walking mismatch who has an interior game matched only by a few PFs (Giannis, Barkley) and Cs (Wilt, Kareem, Shaq).

However, unlike those guys, he has a wider array of moves, counters, and superior shooting range. This doesn't make him "better" in the paint per se, but it does make his game more resilient to different matchups and defensive coverages. And I think that showed in the postseason.

Some may be surprised that I ranked McHale this high. If you know me then you know I'm a McHale guy. I've ranked him higher than others because of his archetype: elite on both ends of the court; back-to-the-basket offense. Comparable paint threats (Giannis and Barkley) have neither the half-court scoring diversity nor the defensive impact.

3) Giannis Antetokoumpo

Like Duncan and McHale, Giannis is elite on both offense and defense. I can build my offense around his athletic penetration and the immense rim pressure and foul pressure he creates. However, I'm not as fond of the drive-and-kick style as I am the inside-out from the post.

His subpar shooting and lack of scoring diversity are an issue. This will create some offensive concerns against certain matchups and defensive schemes. I also feel less comfortable going to him in the clutch. But on the whole, the positives greatly outweigh the negatives.

4) Kevin Garnett

This pick was an interesting one for me.

Although I find his offense seriously lacking, he's just so well-rounded that I have to pick him before more robust scorers that are more flawed all-around players.

My stylistic offensive preference is to create rim pressure and solid amounts of foul pressure. Particularly in the half-court and with a healthy amount of scoring diversity and shooting range. Garnett just doesn't operate in the paint enough for me. But his incredible mid-range shooting, passing, ball handling, and off-ball movement are huge pluses nonetheless.

He's the most portable of all these players. Could stick him on any team and he'd have a big impact. But not who I'd most like to build around.

5) Charles Barkley

I like his powerful scoring game, but I don't like his low IQ tendencies such as taking threes he was never good at. But when you dominate the paint that much, those offensive issues are very small concerns. If it weren't for his defense, I'd probably have him 2nd or 3rd on this list. If I'm constructing a team around a player, ideally, I want him to be a foundational piece on both ends. Not a potential liability on one side.

6) Dirk Nowitzki

I acknowledge Dirk's incredible scoring volume and the efficiency he takes on. But my personal bias against the jump-shooting style sours it somewhat. I feel more comfortable with a big man who operates in the paint. Just my preference. And when you factor in his defense, it makes sense why I'm ranking him here.

7) Anthony Davis

Although AD may be the second or third-best defender on this list, his offense just lacks enough on-ball/creation ability. I just don't feel I can trust him to score when a play breaks down or I just need a bucket in the clutch or to stop a run. His off-ball scoring is tremendous, but if I'm building a team, I really need that ability he lacks.

8) Karl Malone

I'm just not hot on Karl's style of offense and defense. Lacks scoring counters and was too frequently limited in the playoffs. Too reliant on getting the easy baskets, such as in transition, deep catches, and pick-and-roll feeds from Stockton. He was a sturdy, intelligent defender but lacked the length to have a higher a greater impact.

[Xiao Yao You]

Duncan was a center to me. I'd go KG

[warriorfan]

Duncan was a center to me. I'd go KG

damn. might have to “and1” this post

but I think I would rather have giannis

never thought about it until now but who would you rather have on your team? kg or giannis?

answer is giannis

[iamgine]

OP should clarify who is eligible as power forward. Because Bird and Lebron plays power forward for a significant amount of their career.

[90sgoat]

Karl Malone probably gives you the most stable production if you can't choose the rest of the team.

[Jasper]

anthony davis would not even be in my top 15

[HoopsNY]

This isn't about who you think is highest up on the all-time rankings list. This isn't about who you think has had the best career. Longevity, accumulated stats, and number of awards aren't important here. I'm solely concerned with a player's ability at their best and constructing a team around them.

The era is also an issue due to different rules. Let's say the 2000s. This is a period of time when both old-school and new-school styles could equally succeed. You had post-up and jump-shooting PFs both thriving. And enough of the new school pick-and-roll, three-point shooting, ball handling element was there.

Here are my picks:

1) Tim Duncan

- My first pick is Tim Duncan because he's an elite two-way player whose style of offense - back-to-the-basket/rim pressure - is my preference. I feel comfortable building my offense around a guy who plays out of the post, can exert foul pressure, but also has enough counters and shooting range. And as a classic rim protector and sturdy rebounder, on defense it just makes sense.

2) Kevin McHale

- My second pick is Kevin McHale because, like Duncan, he's an elite two-way player who is a dominant post-up player. He's a walking mismatch who has an interior game matched only by a few PFs (Giannis, Barkley) and Cs (Wilt, Kareem, Shaq).

However, unlike those guys, he has a wider array of moves, counters, and superior shooting range. This doesn't make him "better" in the paint per se, but it does make his game more resilient to different matchups and defensive coverages. And I think that showed in the postseason.

Some may be surprised that I ranked McHale this high. If you know me then you know I'm a McHale guy. I've ranked him higher than others because of his archetype: elite on both ends of the court; back-to-the-basket offense. Comparable paint threats (Giannis and Barkley) have neither the half-court scoring diversity nor the defensive impact.

3) Giannis Antetokoumpo

Like Duncan and McHale, Giannis is elite on both offense and defense. I can build my offense around his athletic penetration and the immense rim pressure and foul pressure he creates. However, I'm not as fond of the drive-and-kick style as I am the inside-out from the post.

His subpar shooting and lack of scoring diversity are an issue. This will create some offensive concerns against certain matchups and defensive schemes. I also feel less comfortable going to him in the clutch. But on the whole, the positives greatly outweigh the negatives.

4) Kevin Garnett

This pick was an interesting one for me.

Although I find his offense seriously lacking, he's just so well-rounded that I have to pick him before more robust scorers that are more flawed all-around players.

My stylistic offensive preference is to create rim pressure and solid amounts of foul pressure. Particularly in the half-court and with a healthy amount of scoring diversity and shooting range. Garnett just doesn't operate in the paint enough for me. But his incredible mid-range shooting, passing, ball handling, and off-ball movement are huge pluses nonetheless.

He's the most portable of all these players. Could stick him on any team and he'd have a big impact. But not who I'd most like to build around.

5) Charles Barkley

I like his powerful scoring game, but I don't like his low IQ tendencies such as taking threes he was never good at. But when you dominate the paint that much, those offensive issues are very small concerns. If it weren't for his defense, I'd probably have him 2nd or 3rd on this list. If I'm constructing a team around a player, ideally, I want him to be a foundational piece on both ends. Not a potential liability on one side.

6) Dirk Nowitzki

I acknowledge Dirk's incredible scoring volume and the efficiency he takes on. But my personal bias against the jump-shooting style sours it somewhat. I feel more comfortable with a big man who operates in the paint. Just my preference. And when you factor in his defense, it makes sense why I'm ranking him here.

7) Anthony Davis

Although AD may be the second or third-best defender on this list, his offense just lacks enough on-ball/creation ability. I just don't feel I can trust him to score when a play breaks down or I just need a bucket in the clutch or to stop a run. His off-ball scoring is tremendous, but if I'm building a team, I really need that ability he lacks.

8) Karl Malone

I'm just not hot on Karl's style of offense and defense. Lacks scoring counters and was too frequently limited in the playoffs. Too reliant on getting the easy baskets, such as in transition, deep catches, and pick-and-roll feeds from Stockton. He was a sturdy, intelligent defender but lacked the length to have a higher a greater impact.

Nice list. I've already shared my displeasure with someone like KG, but given that you have him 4th on the list, I guess that's not too bad.

I doubt I'd drop Malone so low. For one, the best ability is availability, so AD hasn't proven himself to be durable in that regard. In addition, AD hasn't been impactful offensively as most might think. The Pelicans highest offensive ranking was 8th back in 2015. With the Lakers, it's been even worse.

LAL finished 11th in 2020 and I don't think they've been higher than 20th since. So if AD and LeBron collectively can't lead their team to a higher ranking than 11th in 5 years playing together, then I'm not sure AD warrants the praise as much as he is given.

Malone's teams were consistently top tier offensively. Even when Stockton missed the first 18 games in the '98 season, Utah was 6th in ORTG. I know a lot of people question Malone's ability offensively without Stockton, but I think that's overblown.

Utah was 11-7 in those games and Malone put up 25/11/4/1 on 52.3% FGs. And that was Malone at 34 years old in a stacked Western Conference (Utah was 9-5 in those games without Stockton against the west).

[SouBeachTalents]

Duncan would never play at the 4 in today's game, and I frankly would have always had him at center in any era regardless, so I'm not going to include him. My ranking would go

1. Giannis
2a. Dirk
2b. KG
4. Barkley
5. AD

I'm just not nearly as high on McHale as OP is Imo taking him over Giannis is crazy, regardless of his flaws, Giannis is clearly a superior player than McHale.

[Im Still Ballin]

Nice list. I've already shared my displeasure with someone like KG, but given that you have him 4th on the list, I guess that's not too bad.

I doubt I'd drop Malone so low. For one, the best ability is availability, so AD hasn't proven himself to be durable in that regard. In addition, AD hasn't been impactful offensively as most might think. The Pelicans highest offensive ranking was 8th back in 2015. With the Lakers, it's been even worse.

LAL finished 11th in 2020 and I don't think they've been higher than 20th since. So if AD and LeBron collectively can't lead their team to a higher ranking than 11th in 5 years playing together, then I'm not sure AD warrants the praise as much as he is given.

Malone's teams were consistently top tier offensively. Even when Stockton missed the first 18 games in the '98 season, Utah was 6th in ORTG. I know a lot of people question Malone's ability offensively without Stockton, but I think that's overblown.

Utah was 11-7 in those games and Malone put up 25/11/4/1 on 52.3% FGs. And that was Malone at 34 years old in a stacked Western Conference (Utah was 9-5 in those games without Stockton against the west).

I do think there's a tendency to overstate the dependency when it comes to certain players. I've seen numbers for many great players without their star teammates. Manu had great numbers when he was called upon to do more on offense. It was covered in Thinking Basketball's video about him. And Penny Hardaway also had an incredible stretch without Shaq.

For me, it's the playoff performances where I think AD's offense gains some steam and Malone's cools off. But I may rethink that ranking.

Kevin McHale played 10 games without Larry Bird between 1985 and 1987

1984-1985 (2 games)

27.0 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 1.0 apg, 0.5 spg, 1.0 bpg, on 64.5% FG (10/15.5) and 77.8% FT (7.0/9.0) [69.37% TS]

1986-1987 (8 games)

28.0 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 3.0 apg, 0.5 spg, 3.4 bpg, on 59% FG (10.6/18) and 88.5% FT (6.8/7.6) [65.59% TS]

Combined that is: (10 games)

27.8 ppg, 9.1 rpg, 2.6 apg, 0.5 spg, 2.9 bpg, on 60% FG (10.5/17.5) and 88% FT (6.8/7.8) [66.41% TS]

Over 10 games without Magic Johnson between 1988 and 1991, James Worthy averaged:

26.2 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 4.0 apg, 2.6 spg, 0.5 bpg on 56.9% FG, 81.8% FT, 60.55% TS

Tony Parker in 29 games without Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili from 2005-2006 to 2012-2013:

- 23.2 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 8.1 apg, 0.8 spg, 0.1 bpg, 3.0 topg
- 51% FG, 80.4% FT, 56.65% TS
- +5.3
- 20-9 (56.5 win-pace)

[tpols]

Dirk. Purely selfless super clutch player who won championship with lowest odds out of the whole group.

[Carbine]

Giannis. He has an every game matters mentality in the regular season and proved to be a #1 option champion in the post season.

[Kblaze8855]

For all things like this, you completely change the answer by just deciding when they’re going to play. The answer playing now is not the answer playing 20 or 30 years ago. But in an all time discussion, there is no more reason to use the current day than any other.

Duncan is my pick to play a random season but may not my pick to play this season. Assuming it’s all random…Duncan then KG. Two way. Generally healthy. Can play through them and expect good ball movement. Unselfish. Seem coachable. Not gonna create any drama. Giannis is also most of that but I have no idea what he looks like if they play in front of refs from 1975. Dirk and Barkley a little lower due to D. Karl could play D but his best use on that end is man to man in the post which is nearly useless now and knocking the **** outta people. His D doesn’t travel as well situation wise. And I can’t count on him finding as symbiotic a relationship as he had with Stockton. AD I can’t depend on. Mchale has potential to do a lot that I’d like but he’s more of a finisher than someone to start offense going through.

KG and Duncan can do all I need on both ends and have less era concerns.

[Im Still Ballin]

Duncan would never play at the 4 in today's game, and I frankly would have always had him at center in any era regardless, so I'm not going to include him. My ranking would go

1. Giannis
2a. Dirk
2b. KG
4. Barkley
5. AD

I'm just not nearly as high on McHale as OP is Imo taking him over Giannis is crazy, regardless of his flaws, Giannis is clearly a superior player than McHale.

When it comes to all-time greats, I don't think anything is necessarily clear. Most of it's going to come down to personal preference. And for me, that's what I described in the OP. Giannis' offense has had issues with certain matchups. For me, it just causes some issues in the postseason.

We got a pretty large sample, a good look at who Kevin McHale was at his best. A guy who could lock down the likes of Dominique Wilkins and Ralph Sampson while also leading the team in scoring and FG%.

- 176 game sample ('86 playoffs, '87 regular season, '88 regular season, '88 playoffs)
- 24.625 ppg, 9.03 rpg, 2.6 apg, 0.5 spg, 1.9 bpg, 2.4 topg
- 60.14% FG, 81.8% FT, 65.5% TS

You could even extend it out to when Kevin first began starting once Maxwell went down in 1985 and he averaged like 24 and 10 on 57% FG over the last 48 games including the playoffs. Including the 1985-86 regular season, that's like nearly a 300-game sample of McHale doing 23-24 ppg on crazy efficiency to go along with elite all-D 1st team level defense.

[Im Still Ballin]

For all things like this, you completely change the answer by just deciding when they’re going to play. The answer playing now is not the answer playing 20 or 30 years ago. But in an all time discussion, there is no more reason to use the current day than any other.

Duncan is my pick to play a random season but may not my pick to play this season. Assuming it’s all random…Duncan then KG. Two way. Generally healthy. Can play through them and expect good ball movement. Unselfish. Seem coachable. Not gonna create any drama. Giannis is also most of that but I have no idea what he looks like if they play in front of refs from 1975. Dirk and Barkley a little lower due to D. Karl could play D but his best use on that end is man to man in the post which is nearly useless now and knocking the **** outta people. His D doesn’t travel as well situation wise. And I can’t count on him finding as symbiotic a relationship as he had with Stockton. AD I can’t depend on. Mchale has potential to do a lot that I’d like but he’s more of a finisher than someone to start offense going through.

KG and Duncan can do all I need on both ends and have less era concerns.

Yeah that's the problem with these hypotheticals. I just chose the 2000s because it seemed close enough to today but old enough that the post-up guys could still play their game more or less.

[Im Still Ballin]

I probably will be alone in ranking McHale up that high. But I do know of one OG poster who shares the same opinion. At least, he did a few years back. I'm pretty sure Thorpesaurous played D1 himself if I recall correctly.

I think they're both a little overrated. Malone is a better defender, but he's an on ball defender. He wasn't a good help defender at all for a PF. And offensively, he's consistent, but he lacked the creativity that most great players had.
Barkley is an anomaly. He's as difficult a cover as the leagues probably ever seen. Too quick and crafty for PFs, and too strong for SFs. And at times, he was quicker and had more ball skills than even SFs, and could overpower even the best PFs. But defensively, his size was always an issue. He had to go after everything, shots and rebounds, so much, that he was often out of position. It wasn't as much an issue of effort as it's made out to be. At his peak, I'd definitely take him over Malone. But I don't think either of them is as good as Duncan, or even McHale.

Duncan's game most resemble's McHales. And my preference for both of them stems from their both being better at defending the rim. Obviously there's a lot of projection with McHale not being a number one option, but none of the other guys would have been either with Bird on their team. And only Duncan has proven that he could win it on his own, so if Mchale were a number one option on a team, he wouldn't have to even win a title to prove he was in the neighborhood of Malone and Barkley. Barkley is clearly the hardest to defend in the group.

I know I'm in limited company with my opinion of McHale, and that's completely understandable. It's just something I've believed for a long time. And I don't put much weight into any of those kinds of quotes that players make. But it's always fun to read Barkley's ramblings, and Andrew Toney was a monster.

In terms of historical achievement, it's obviously Malone.

But as someone who saw both guys, if it were my team I'd take McHale in a heartbeat. McHale is one of the most unique ability vs. numbers guys ever because of how much he bent himself for the good of the team.

Malone to me was maybe the best player ever at getting and making the easy shots. Weather it was using his physicality to get way deep in the post to make an easy shot. Outrunning his opponent, which he's really underrated at. And obviously just finding space in that pick and roll. But his game lacked much in the way of counters. If those handful of things were taken away, he didn't adjust well.

McHale's post game could serve as an offensive foundation. It would've been nice had he been a better passer, but that to me is a smaller sin. And defensively the gap is enormous. McHale has a great rep as a rim protector, but is underrated as a perimeter guy before he destroyed his ankle playing through the playoffs on a broken foot.

My fondness of McHale is admittedly higher than pretty much anyone. I'd take him over Barkley for similar defensive reasons. And I'd consider him over Garnett, who's an all time defender and an excellent offensive player, but his game on that end has some of the same flaws as Malone's in that while it's very versatile, it lacked some of the forcefulness that McHale's post game had that feels more foundational.

McHale would be a fascinating player as a center in the current league. He could be a switching machine. Something like Jo Noah on that end, and a more efficient Zack Randolph on the other.

I am saying Malone isn't an offensive foundation. And I know that seems weird considering the ridiculous number of points he scored.

But it's your second point that is the reason. I do care how easy the points were, because it's exactly that reason that I have concerns running an offense through him. And I think it defines some of his post season failures because teams knew they could change looks at him and effect his play. I think that's the reason so many of the big situations those Jazz teams were in, the ball wound up in Stockton or even Jeff Hornacek's hands. They may make a decision to go to Karl, but it was more often or not their decision.

And like I said, if we're doing a historical list, some kind of a ranking, then Malone is clearly ahead. But if I'm running the team and I get to choose between these two skill sets, I'd take McHale.