The athleticism of todays athletes really would be too much for my idols to play.

[Kblaze8855]

Talk about stifling the offense with officiating. And yet some wonder why the offense "skills" are so much more advanced nowadays. How can one explore on offense during this era.

And I’m not kidding when I say it was already less strict by then. People were already complaining that they didn’t call it tight anymore.

[tpols]

I wanna go back to my days on the local drug dealers back yard court and get some of those travels back. Old heads calling everything. Even Hakeem drug his pivot now and then. I might have been pistol whipped trying some of the shit they get away with now.

Wait a second... you hung out with drug dealers who had GUNS?

And here I was thinking you were a respectable pillar of the community.

You oughta be ashamed of yourself.

[Kblaze8855]

I have guns. I buy guns as presents. I’m just not a freak about it.

And the drug dealers in question never exposed a gun. I’m sure they had them but they weren’t waving them around us. I’d still get in trouble if my mom found I was playing over there though. His kids had everything though. You can’t expect the one rich family in a poor hood to not attract the attention of the other kids. And his kids weren’t even ***** about it like some rich kids. They weren’t like stuck up. They acted like everybody else they just had everything. And then dad went to jail for a long time and last I heard he was a butcher in a supermarket.

[tpols]

Living in a hyper blue state I really do wonder what it would be like to just have a high powered firearm on your hip driving around. I think it's an automatic prison sentence here.

[Kblaze8855]

I With a gun in the car. Never have. Now I’ve written with a number of friends who kept guns in the car, but a gun of mine? Nah. I figure a home invasion or somebody coming for me at my home is way more likely than me needing to be in a shootout at the stoplight. Maybe if I get robbed in my car I’ll change my mind. I’ve had homes broken into. Last time was years ago and I actually sat by my window I could tell they came in hoping they would come back for more.

At the time they ran out with my Xbox and I think maybe a small TV but left too much. My dumbass was hoping they would come back And I could get some vengeance. And I’m sitting in the house inarmed. Didn’t even get a knife out of the kitchen.

I’ve had two break-ins in my life, but never when anybody was home.

[FKAri]

Talk about stifling the offense with officiating. And yet some wonder why the offense "skills" are so much more advanced nowadays. How can one explore on offense during this era.

Well part of the reason is that the offensive skills ARE much more advanced nowadays. Specifically individual skill. Specifically shot making. But you're right that part of it is also rules. Part of it is also a culture of letting the talent do its thing as opposed to, "if you don't do things a certain way, you're getting benched".

[tpols]

That's funny. A couple of years ago when I was living in a shitty apartment complex in North Jersey I had somebody stalking me on a robbery. I woke up one night at 3am and heard a rustle by my window and saw one of my blinds was turned horizontal. My window faced a graveyard about 30 yards away so there was perfect no visibility for a burglar. Walked by it the next morning and there was a chair underneath my window in between the bushes. Asked my roommates who had lived there longer than me about anything sketchy happening and they said there was a home invasion in the unit a couple months before I moved in and that it was my window they came through. Thanks guys.

[ShawkFactory]

I With a gun in the car. Never have. Now I’ve written with a number of friends who kept guns in the car, but a gun of mine? Nah. I figure a home invasion or somebody coming for me at my home is way more likely than me needing to be in a shootout at the stoplight. Maybe if I get robbed in my car I’ll change my mind. I’ve had homes broken into. Last time was years ago and I actually sat by my window I could tell they came in hoping they would come back for more.

At the time they ran out with my Xbox and I think maybe a small TV but left too much. My dumbass was hoping they would come back And I could get some vengeance. And I’m sitting in the house inarmed. Didn’t even get a knife out of the kitchen.

I’ve had two break-ins in my life, but never when anybody was home.

Generally the goal of most home invaders.

[Kblaze8855]

I’m sure you’re right. Generally. But it doesn’t always work out that way. RIP Mr.Skinner







Lived near the top of the same street of the house I was in that got robbed. Right around the time I moved back to that neighborhood for reasons most would find questionable, but made sense to me at the time.

[ShawkFactory]

All that for $70. Damn.

[Kblaze8855]

Well part of the reason is that the offensive skills ARE much more advanced nowadays. Specifically individual skill. Specifically shot making. But you're right that part of it is also rules. Part of it is also a culture of letting the talent do its thing as opposed to, "if you don't do things a certain way, you're getting benched".

tough to find a line for me between skill, and simply taking advantage of being allowed to do things others can’t. Like…are and-1 players more skilled than John Stockton because Stockton plays by the rules? Is it hard to do even illegal moves and have them work vs nba players? Sure. But does that mean players who don’t work on blatantly illegal forms of offense are less skilled?

Today’s players are inarguably more skilled long range shooters. But there isnt a single person known for ballhandling and great finishing ability who doesn’t specialize in tactics that were literally illegal for over 100 years. I don’t know how to account for that when trying to judge the skill difference.

Kyrie has godly skill. But he chains moves together that would be a carry and often double dribble(shot fake hesis) into a traveling gather if you go back far enough.

So do we blame the players who weren’t allowed for not developing the skill to do those moves?

[mr4speed]

This is after 20 years of the refs getting less strict.

Imagine a guy used to todays rules playing 10 years before even that.

I honestly don’t think 10-15 turnovers would be a bad estimate. The refs will either have to agree to stop calling the game as they see it or the players would have to rebuild their game completely on the fly. Not really fair to ask.

Thank you - thank you for posting this video. If you took the officials from this era and put them into any game today, there would be a travelling violation on almost every possession. This is a great example of how the players today have a huge advantage over the defense!!!!!

[FKAri]

tough to find a line for me between skill, and simply taking advantage of being allowed to do things others can’t. Like…are and-1 players more skilled than John Stockton because Stockton plays by the rules? Is it hard to do even illegal moves and have them work vs nba players? Sure. But does that mean players who don’t work on blatantly illegal forms of offense are less skilled?

Today’s players are inarguably more skilled long range shooters. But there isnt a single person known for ballhandling and great finishing ability who doesn’t specialize in tactics that were literally illegal for over 100 years. I don’t know how to account for that when trying to judge the skill difference.

Kyrie has godly skill. But he chains moves together that would be a carry and often double dribble(shot fake hesis) into a traveling gather if you go back far enough.

So do we blame the players who weren’t allowed for not developing the skill to do those moves?

OK, let's ignore Kyrie's handles. But let's keep it about guards. You mentioned the finishing ability. He might be the best in the league today on layups but he isn't without peer. I'd put Curry and maybe even Murray in his tier. In Stockton's time he would have no peer. His ability to stop on a dime and pull up coupled with the quickness of his release? Elite? Maybe. It's certainly very good. In Stockton's time? Definitely elite.

One thing everyone can note over time is how shot releases have gotten quicker across the board. Would Curry be able to do what he does with a below league average release? Kyle Anderson has a slow release and even with today's dribbling and his size he can't get a shot off in a face up iso. So a lot of these older guards even with up to date handles aren't getting a shot off if their release is slow. And getting good elevation on a jumper was also increasingly rare the further back you go. Another thing between say the early 80s and the 90s: How much better guys got with their off hand. It's not some new rule or officiating that ushered this change. There's other things too and there's also rare exceptions like Chris Jackson who really was held back more due to rules/offensive philosophy than anything to do with skill.

So the caveat: Why would a 6'2 guard in the 80s be working on an assortment of layups? He's avoiding the hard hits in the paint anyways. Is he working on his shot making if his job is to make a post entry pass? So, yes this is a part of it. But this is different from "He could do it but he wasn't allowed to". He also couldn't do it because he didn't even train to.

It's a feedback loop. MJ inspired an entire generation with guard dominant scoring. They then tried to do it and although they couldn't do it as well as he did it, they did a lot better than the previous generation. This incentivized more guards to learn how to do so. Resulting in more guards who can do so. More means the best are even better at doing so. Making it look even easier to do so in turn inspiring even more. And the league didn't mind helping out.

[Im Still Ballin]

Talk about stifling the offense with officiating. And yet some wonder why the offense "skills" are so much more advanced nowadays. How can one explore on offense during this era.

And I’m not kidding when I say it was already less strict by then. People were already complaining that they didn’t call it tight anymore.

From an article in 1988:

Newell, who remains enough fascinated by the shot that he tries to teach it in his big-man camp for NBA centers and forwards, said: “It happened about 15 years ago, when they changed the interpretation of the screen. It then allowed you to go down and pick a guy, and rarely was there an offensive foul. It was the birth of motion offense. It creates a shot in the vicinity of the basket so there’s now lots of jamming.”

[eliteballer]