Gen Z is really pushing the “The 90s were awful” angle lately.

[RRR3]

There's one thing I can't check with stats for a pitcher: Location. I'd have to ask the catcher. I'd have to get in their heads. Maddux had tremendous control for example.

But everything else? I can check the tape and the tape tells everyone that the pitches thrown today are faster, have more life and more movement than ever. Are the pitchers better? Well, this is trickier because they are going max effort more than in the past. They are throwing until their arms fall off and not having long careers or even pitching a lot of innings. But that is irrelevant for the sake of this argument: The pitches the hitters are seeing are better than ever. Period.

This is so insane to me. Not caring about longevity is just mind-boggling. It's gonna be extremely hard for a starting pitcher to make the HOF at the rate things are going. I'd much rather have the career of Kyle Lowry than Derrick Rose, to use a basketball analogy. Is this just a pitcher in baseball thing? Because no one is sacrificing themselves like this in basketball.

[j3lademaster]

Randy Johnson, Maddux, Pedro, etc tell those guys pitching has gotten better. Those are the two filthiest pitchers and the best control pitcher possibly ever.

And Pedro/Randy did it in the steroid era. That was baseball's "golden era" in terms of performance, because it was literally the enhancement era for a large majority of the players.

Forming an argument using the exceptions isn't a good argument. The average pitch is better now. Period. It doesn't mean Randy Johnson can't hang today.

[j3lademaster]

This is so insane to me. Not caring about longevity is just mind-boggling. It's gonna be extremely hard for a starting pitcher to make the HOF at the rate things are going. I'd much rather have the career of Kyle Lowry than Derrick Rose, to use a basketball analogy. Is this just a pitcher in baseball thing? Because no one is sacrificing themselves like this in basketball.

It's become the new competitive standard, so you kind of have to. There is much less of a gap between star pitchers vs the rest of the league than ever, just like how roleplayers are getting better in the nba. The main difference between the sports is that basketball will always be 5 on 5, so better roleplayers who are out there to play for their stars will actually make the stars look better and put up better numbers i.e better shooters than ever = better assist numbers than ever, whereas baseball is always going to be a lot of one on one- pitcher vs hitter. Framing has gotten better too though, so catchers have something to do with it, but you get the picture. No one's going to pitch 250 innings anymore(no one is going to play 44min like Iverson in the NBA either) like Johnson did, and it's not because players back then were simply built different like the boomers want you to believe.

Really puts into perspective how insane Shohei Ohtani is.

[ShawkFactory]

This is so insane to me. Not caring about longevity is just mind-boggling. It's gonna be extremely hard for a starting pitcher to make the HOF at the rate things are going. I'd much rather have the career of Kyle Lowry than Derrick Rose, to use a basketball analogy. Is this just a pitcher in baseball thing? Because no one is sacrificing themselves like this in basketball.

It's now a part of the competitiveness of even getting a spot in the league. You have to be able to throw in a certain way and that nowadays isn't usually conducive to a long career. I don't think pitchers necessarily want this, but it has to happen.

There are so many guys out there now that you have to set yourself apart somehow.

[RRR3]

You guys say this but there’s still plenty of guys throwing in the low 90s who made the league. Some of the elite guys are maxing out around 96 which is certainly fast but not unheard of from prior eras by any means. It’s the guys trying to throw 100 every pitch who are getting hurt

[GimmeThat]

it's awful in the sense that everyone played by their own rules, and so it was prime time for politics and people who wanted a piece of the pie.

so yea, the established(married) can't keep their peace

[tpols]

Roast of Larry Bird

[ShawkFactory]

You guys say this but there’s still plenty of guys throwing in the low 90s who made the league. Some of the elite guys are maxing out around 96 which is certainly fast but not unheard of from prior eras by any means. It’s the guys trying to throw 100 every pitch who are getting hurt

It's not about how fast you throw in a vacuum, but how fast you throw compared to what your individual body will allow. There are plenty of guys throwing 92 who are absolutely maxing out at that velo. Someone like that may not make the league if they threw the more comfortable and repeatable 88.

[tpols]

Listen Kblaze brought this thing to our attention. He blessed us with the footage. Watch this shit.



WHERE is the handchecking? There's 100s of these videos they can't all be cherrypicked. Guys sagging off playing zero D until you enter the paint.

I'm mad about it because I remember in high school in the mid 2000s our coach would run us through full court press 1v1 drills and dudes would hit and grab the hell out of you to not let you get by. There was no whistle. If you complained you'd get bullied and called soft.

This pro defense is weaker than what I went through at a nobody high school. I'm 100% serious.

[RRR3]

So. You got LeBron over MJ tpols?

[tpols]

After watching the tape as a pure basketball talent? Yes. Lebron is way bigger stronger and faster, he has a way better symmetrical handle and honestly the guys jumper over the past decade has been better than MJs. He ĥas great form and factually can hit long jumpers better than Jordan.

Watching these old timers play man... I'm jealous. Because when I played you had to bust your ass to get the ball up the court and if you wanted good post position? You'd have to damn near get in a fight. This 80s tape is showing dudes getting everything for EXTRA free.

It's all on tape.

[j3lademaster]

So. You got LeBron over MJ tpols?

Nah, mj averages 45 ppg and Wilt gets 40/25. Modern era just can’t keep up.

[SATAN]

After watching the tape as a pure basketball talent? Yes.

[paksat]

After watching the tape as a pure basketball talent? Yes. Lebron is way bigger stronger and faster, he has a way better symmetrical handle and honestly the guys jumper over the past decade has been better than MJs. He ĥas great form and factually can hit long jumpers better than Jordan.

Watching these old timers play man... I'm jealous. Because when I played you had to bust your ass to get the ball up the court and if you wanted good post position? You'd have to damn near get in a fight. This 80s tape is showing dudes getting everything for EXTRA free.

It's all on tape.

so 2024 team you'd bet good money on them to win vs 92 dream team right?


man stfu LOL

[SATAN]

^^^Hasn't watched a game since Jordan retired.