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  1. #61
    Eye of the tiger beasted's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green View Post
    Your post should be cleaned with a vacuum. The Celtics would be 0-2 in the conference finals right now without Jaylen Brown. You take him away from the Cs and put him on the Knicks and the Knicks are the #1 seed in the East. He is a crucial star player. The one season Tatum had to truly carry the team without Brown he had to go off for 50 just to get the team through the play-in and then had to go off again just to get one win off the Nets. The Celtics need Brown and the organization knows this. That's why he got paid. You don't haggle over a few million when you're trying to win a championship.
    Such a poor rebuttal since you know it doesn't work that way. Add an allstar for free to almost any playoff team and they are #1 in their conference. Add Brunson the Heat and they embarrass the Celtics.

    Can Jaylen Brown be the #1 player with 1 other allstar and lead that team to a title? He's already proven for multiple years now he can't.

    Can he be an integral piece to a stacked team like this iteration of the Celtics? Yes. But that doesn't justify his salary. As I said multiple posts ago, he can only be worth his contact to the Celtics.

  2. #62
    Titles are overrated Kblaze8855's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?


    Can Jaylen Brown be the #1 player with 1 other allstar and lead that team to a title? He's already proven for multiple years now he can't.
    not doing something isn’t proving you can’t. Plenty of people who did exactly what you’re asking for didn’t do it for over a decade until they did. They weren’t proving they can’t while they weren’t doing it. I bet I would miss an extra point kick 58 times in a row, but that wouldn’t prove it was impossible for me to make one.

    Not that your question even seems reasonable. At the salary he’s on his team can still afford multiple additional All-Stars. So why would he need to prove he can win with only one to justify it?

    Tatum is gonna sign for like 334 million dollars. Brown having the second biggest deal on his team sounds about right.

  3. #63
    Eye of the tiger beasted's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kblaze8855 View Post
    not doing something isn’t proving you can’t. Plenty of people who did exactly what you’re asking for didn’t do it for over a decade until they did. They weren’t proving they can’t while they weren’t doing it. I bet I would miss an extra point kick 58 times in a row, but that wouldn’t prove it was impossible for me to make one.

    Not that your question even seems reasonable. At the salary he’s on his team can still afford multiple additional All-Stars. So why would he need to prove he can win with only one to justify it?

    Tatum is gonna sign for like 334 million dollars. Brown having the second biggest deal on his team sounds about right.
    You've made some points, but the most important point is he hasn't even been the best player over those years sans maybe this season.

    So the theory of "#1" is completely valid. #2 is the best case scenario.

  4. #64
    Titles are overrated Kblaze8855's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by beasted View Post
    You've made some points, but the most important point is he hasn't even been the best player over those years sans maybe this season.

    So the theory of "#1" is completely valid. #2 is the best case scenario.

    Why would he need to be? Your pay is not determined by your ranking. Is determined by who comes up first to get paid. Fans never stop with this. You weren’t paid by your status in the league or historically. An ever rising cap forces ever larger contracts, and whoever signs First gets the money And then whoever signs after that will get more. Giannis signed the biggest contract in NBA history in 2020 at 228 million. And just one season later the Nuggets gave MPJ a contract That depending on incentives can get to 207. He had started 62 games in his career at that point. And he joined like 6 players ever with a deal that size.

    And the only reason you don’t hear about it is because it was immediately the new standard and we already have 3 rookies from 2020 who have signed deals that will pay them 260 million and Bane signed for 207.

    highest paid isn’t a ranking of ability. It’s just a marker of who signed when. Three quarterbacks nobody has as elite are signing for $50 million this season. The list of quarterbacks to be the highest paid ever is hilarious. But the records get beaten every year or two because, it is a constant climb.

    None of this is a direct ability to pay thing but fans will not stop acting like it is. There is structure. You get paid the most when you go first. And next in line gets more. And then more. And more. It isn’t an ongoing evaluation.

    It’s just the line. You get to the front you get yours. If you stay healthy and out of jail, you don’t even have to improve to get a massive raise when you get back to the front. They aren’t evaluating each person in the line. The person at the front gets a scoop. And the scoop gets bigger and bigger.

    Until networks and streaming services don’t need live sports for credibility the serving dish keeps getting bigger. Stay healthy enough to get back to the front of the line you will get a bigger scoop than the last guy.

    The cafeteria doesn’t care anymore. They quite literally have more food than their contract with the diners will allow them to serve. They bump the spoon up by 10% every off-season and still have to freeze some for next week. Nobody but fans gives a **** about this money.

  5. #65
    Please clap. Real Men Wear Green's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by beasted View Post
    Such a poor rebuttal since you know it doesn't work that way. Add an allstar for free to almost any playoff team and they are #1 in their conference. Add Brunson the Heat and they embarrass the Celtics.

    Can Jaylen Brown be the #1 player with 1 other allstar and lead that team to a title? He's already proven for multiple years now he can't.

    Can he be an integral piece to a stacked team like this iteration of the Celtics? Yes. But that doesn't justify his salary. As I said multiple posts ago, he can only be worth his contact to the Celtics.
    The Knicks will have the flexibility to make a trade happen and Philly will have Mac cap space. The Celtics without JB would not be well equipped to deal with Brown, Maxey and Embiid. What justification to pay him is needed beyond him being a star that they can't win a ring without while he could make a playoff opponent a Contender? Letting him walk would be stupid.

  6. #66
    Titles are overrated Kblaze8855's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green View Post
    The Knicks will have the flexibility to make a trade happen and Philly will have Mac cap space. The Celtics without JB would not be well equipped to deal with Brown, Maxey and Embiid. What justification to pay him is needed beyond him being a star that they can't win a ring without while he could make a playoff opponent a Contender? Letting him walk would be stupid.

    when the choices maybe win a title or definitely don’t I don’t even know how it’s a discussion. When it’s a team on the verge of a rebuild or may be needing one at least there’s the discussion to be had about if you blow up and start over. If you’re trying to win a championship now, you’re just Pay and hope for the best.

    The Nuggets certainly didn’t give Porter Junior a contract he earned by starting 60 something games in his life. But they thought maybe they could win. The one win is worth all the rest. If he never gets where they wanted…the ring makes it worth it.


    If your owner isn’t pro tanking….you just pay market value. And market value for an all nba guy is a couple metric **** tons. Either Pay it all or rebuild. Both decent options. But there isn’t really a third one I can think of. Celtics were way too good to rebuild.

    It’s only really a question if you are torn between those two options. The Celtics being so close makes the choice for them.

    If they win one it doesn’t matter if he makes 96 million. And if they don’t they can’t be clowned for going for it.

  7. #67
    NBA All-star NBAGOAT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green View Post
    If White can get 40 mil per from someone then good for him but with Holiday and Porzingis getting 30 per I don't see it. It's inconsistent that you think the Celtics should have tried to pay Brown 7mil per less because of what other teams could offer but somehow giving White 40 per makes perfect sense. Teams are going to be offering White 40 mil per? Who?

    Brown wouldn't have to feel slighted by haggling but all the statements that he made leading up to the extensions showed that he definitely would be. The Celtics had to deal with the reality and the reality currently has them up 2-0 in the conference finals. Your position could easily have cost them the best wing duo in the NBA and broken up a contender. No thanks.

    All that talk about luxury tax aprons is you being concerned with Grousbeck's money. Denver made a financial decision regarding certain roleplayers that may have cost them a shot at the title this year. That's their business. Doesn't mean the Celtics have to operate the same way.
    Yea I think youíre underrating him. white is clearly a better guy in terms of impact and age and health than jrue or porzingis. Ok fair enough about jaylen if he wanted the max only. Celtics had no choice then.

    Youíre still not understanding the cap situation. Denver wasnít allowed to pay Bruce more than a certain amount. Had nothing to do with owners being cheap. The kings have the same problem with Malik monk they canít give him more than 19mil/yr. The Celtics are same with hauser cannot give him more than 140% of an average nba salary for an extension

  8. #68
    NBA All-star NBAGOAT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kblaze8855 View Post
    when the choices maybe win a title or definitely don’t I don’t even know how it’s a discussion. When it’s a team on the verge of a rebuild or may be needing one at least there’s the discussion to be had about if you blow up and start over. If you’re trying to win a championship now, you’re just Pay and hope for the best.

    The Nuggets certainly didn’t give Porter Junior a contract he earned by starting 60 something games in his life. But they thought maybe they could win. The one win is worth all the rest. If he never gets where they wanted…the ring makes it worth it.


    If your owner isn’t pro tanking….you just pay market value. And market value for an all nba guy is a couple metric **** tons. Either Pay it all or rebuild. Both decent options. But there isn’t really a third one I can think of. Celtics were way too good to rebuild.

    It’s only really a question if you are torn between those two options. The Celtics being so close makes the choice for them.

    If they win one it doesn’t matter if he makes 96 million. And if they don’t they can’t be clowned for going for it.
    You can haggle sometimes that’s the 3rd option but rmwg said it wasn’t on table. Sabonis was all nba these 2 years didn’t get the full max he was eligible for which was only a 30% max too not
    the 35% supermax. Was only a few mil but that could help kings with roster move down the line

  9. #69
    Eye of the tiger beasted's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green View Post
    The Knicks will have the flexibility to make a trade happen and Philly will have Mac cap space. The Celtics without JB would not be well equipped to deal with Brown, Maxey and Embiid. What justification to pay him is needed beyond him being a star that they can't win a ring without while he could make a playoff opponent a Contender? Letting him walk would be stupid.
    This is not a logical point. If Philly wasn't a threat with Embiid, Harden, Harris, Maxey, and a fleet of solid role players, what makes them suddenly a juggernaut with Embiid, Brown, Maxey, whatever they can fit under the Room Exception ($7.8M), and a bunch of minimum contracts (because they'd have no ability to retain the rights on anyone else)?

    To me it's very evident you value Brown's impact equivalent to a top 8 player if you think that way, which would be an unfounded belief.

    Knicks have no ability to sign or obtain Brown without sign and trade assistance from Boston, just like many other playoff teams looking to get better, so I'm not sure where you're going there.

    The basis of your argument appears to continue to ride on the fact that he makes Boston a better team than not having him, which is such a common sense point it doesn't need to be stated.

    Again, the cost analysis of whether a player is worth what you're paying them is based on marketing/ filing seats/money- making components and then winning components in a nutshell.

    I think Brown is solid from the popularity angle but not great. From the winning angle it's more or less the same. He's a very good player in terms of elevating an already solid team to contender status, but not a great in that he will carry a team to wins over a better opponent on paper. He's just a "good" not a "great". Right now his contact hasn't become and impediment to fielding a good team, and he's most valuable on a cap locked contender like the Celtics. But it's easy to see how it carries significant risk to directly contribute to a collapse of the Cs, as well as he'd be a bad contract to a non- cap locked team trying to build itself to contender status.

    Replace Dejounte Murray with Brown making $24M more, and Atlanta instantly becomes the most toxic payroll in the league. Hopefully it's plain as daylight that while Brown is better, he's not $24M better from any value proposition one could imagine vs Murray.

  10. #70
    Please clap. Real Men Wear Green's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by NBAGOAT View Post
    Yea I think you’re underrating him. white is clearly a better guy in terms of impact and age and health than jrue or porzingis. Ok fair enough about jaylen if he wanted the max only. Celtics had no choice then.

    You’re still not understanding the cap situation. Denver wasn’t allowed to pay Bruce more than a certain amount. Had nothing to do with owners being cheap. The kings have the same problem with Malik monk they can’t give him more than 19mil/yr. The Celtics are same with hauser cannot give him more than 140% of an average nba salary for an extension
    So you can continue to obsess over whether or not saving a few mil on Brown will make Hauser hard to retain if you want but I'm pretty sure Brown was and is the priority. Hauser can be dealt with when the time comes.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by beasted View Post
    This is not a logical point. If Philly wasn't a threat with Embiid, Harden, Harris, Maxey, and a fleet of solid role players, what makes them suddenly a juggernaut with Embiid, Brown, Maxey, whatever they can fit under the Room Exception ($7.8M), and a bunch of minimum contracts (because they'd have no ability to retain the rights on anyone else)?

    To me it's very evident you value Brown's impact equivalent to a top 8 player if you think that way, which would be an unfounded belief.

    Knicks have no ability to sign or obtain Brown without sign and trade assistance from Boston, just like many other playoff teams looking to get better, so I'm not sure where you're going there.

    The basis of your argument appears to continue to ride on the fact that he makes Boston a better team than not having him, which is such a common sense point it doesn't need to be stated.

    Again, the cost analysis of whether a player is worth what you're paying them is based on marketing/ filing seats/money- making components and then winning components in a nutshell.

    I think Brown is solid from the popularity angle but not great. From the winning angle it's more or less the same. He's a very good player in terms of elevating an already solid team to contender status, but not a great in that he will carry a team to wins over a better opponent on paper. He's just a "good" not a "great". Right now his contact hasn't become and impediment to fielding a good team, and he's most valuable on a cap locked contender like the Celtics. But it's easy to see how it carries significant risk to directly contribute to a collapse of the Cs, as well as he'd be a bad contract to a non- cap locked team trying to build itself to contender status.

    Replace Dejounte Murray with Brown making $24M more, and Atlanta instantly becomes the most toxic payroll in the league. Hopefully it's plain as daylight that while Brown is better, he's not $24M better from any value proposition one could imagine vs Murray.
    I see the problem: you probably just think Brown sucks. There will be no reasoning here.

  12. #72
    Eye of the tiger beasted's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green View Post
    I see the problem: you probably just think Brown sucks. There will be no reasoning here.
    That's really what you took away? Try again.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    I've added enough here, but here is fruit for thought for the Brown advocates:

    What makes Brown worth the supermax over just the max extension he was eligible to sign?

    It's likely to be a lot of thumb twiddling on any answer to that question.

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by beasted View Post
    That's really what you took away? Try again.
    You think an allstar that is averaging 23 on 50% with excellent defense that has averaged 27 efficiently just last season would make no difference for Philly (that's where I stopped reading). You don't think he's a star. The end.

  15. #75
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green View Post
    So you can continue to obsess over whether or not saving a few mil on Brown will make Hauser hard to retain if you want but I'm pretty sure Brown was and is the priority. Hauser can be dealt with when the time comes.
    oh ik brown is more important than hauser. Just saying not having one role guy couldve cost denver a title this year. However yes I think it was presumptuous for you to assume because boston won 64 games they're set for the next few years. It just hasnt worked that way in history even as talented as boston is. If owner doesnt keep the starting 5 together for more than 2 years(end of porzingis deal) then we can really have a discussion about brown's supermax being worth but we'll see. I doubt it tbf plan seems to keep starting 5 together for jrue's whole contract and bolster bench through draft and vet mins. Possibly trade jrue at the end of his deal for another star

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