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  1. #46
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by beasted View Post
    Each decision should live in a vacuum.
    Your post should be cleaned with a vacuum. The Celtics would be 0-2 in the conference finals right now without Jaylen Brown. You take him away from the Cs and put him on the Knicks and the Knicks are the #1 seed in the East. He is a crucial star player. The one season Tatum had to truly carry the team without Brown he had to go off for 50 just to get the team through the play-in and then had to go off again just to get one win off the Nets. The Celtics need Brown and the organization knows this. That's why he got paid. You don't haggle over a few million when you're trying to win a championship.

  2. #47
    NBA All-star NBAGOAT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green View Post
    You pay players for what they will do not what they have done. Of course Riley won't want to hand Butler 60 mil a year when he's 36 when he's missing a ton of games and similar logic applies to Paul George except that unlike Butler you don't have postseason greatness to be grateful for so there's even less reason for a big payday. History tells us that these are guys that probably won't play 65 games.

    I am bored with rehashing Irving's history. If you want to think there's no difference between what he did with/to the Nets and Brown helping the Celtics make conference finals five times that's your business.

    But if you don't pay him supermax he is likely to feel slighted and may well decide he wants to find a team where he's the undisputed franchise player or that he has a better shot at a championship with a great big like Embiid, wants to go home to ATL. Any number of things could effect his decision if the Celtics don't show him that they value him at the highest level.

    I am pointing out that he didn't decline to illustrate the flaw in making a big deal over whether or not he is AllNBA one particular year. Last season he was 2nd team. Is he any worse now or did his stats take a hit because he's surrounded by talent?
    The idea that White is worth 40 mil while Brown is overpaid is amusing to me. Moving on.

    I didn't say they took discounts. I don't know who would be offering them a lot more as free agents. What I do know is that Brown has no reason to care what they get paid while his agent negotiates max dollars.
    You have this strange idea that the Celtics are hurting for money. Groesbeck paid 360 mil for the team. It's currently worth 4.7 billion with annual revenue of 443 million. And that's likely just how they report their numbers for tax purposes.
    Fine weíll go past half the guys I went over. You still ignored the other half. The general point is you can haggle and the star doesnít have to feel slighted. Itís a negotiation and part of the business and I gave you countless examples of others. You say heís the franchise player but no thatís not true, Tatum is the franchise player.

    When I say all-nba lvl I just mean someone who is a lock but not mvp lvl. It doesnít matter if he made it this year to my point is heís a borderline guy in the top 20 range. Mitchell and Booker are
    Examples of guys who are locks every year. Even guys like lebron/kd are at that lvl not mvp lvl but all-nba locks. If you think jaylen is at the lvl of lebron or kd then fair but I think youíre overrating him then.

    Porzingis absolutely took a discount. Mil clippers etc wouldíve extended jrue for more money if they had him. White is better than those 2 yea him deserving 40 is perfectly reasonable. Jaylen makes like 55 his first yr, Iím asking for it to be like 48 more than white no logical inconsistency. Youíve greatly underrated white the past year or two too even tbf lumping him with the other members of supporting cast. His agent shouldnít care but the team does while they negotiate. If they tried to offer him less fair enough maybe he wouldnt take it.

    No need to put words in my mouth to win an argument. I said Iím not worried about Celtics financial situation or how much money the Celtics make. Thatís irrelevant. Itís because of the 2nd apron and cap rules they canít pay what heíll get in fa. Subreddit fir Celtics discussed it they canít keep hauser next offseason. Denver literally couldnít give brown more than a certain amount it wasnít a lack of money issue.

  3. #48
    NBA All-star NBAGOAT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carbine View Post
    Brown is having a playoff run that is at worst a true 1B to Tatum's 1A (and that's being generous to Tatum)

    That's worth the amount of money he is being payed.
    Derrick been the best player this run however. 18ppg on elite efficiency and does everything on offense elite shooter good playmaker even a heavy screener for Tatum/brown. and heís their best on ball/help defender.

  4. #49
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by NBAGOAT View Post
    Fine we’ll go past half the guys I went over. You still ignored the other half. The general point is you can haggle and the star doesn’t have to feel slighted. It’s a negotiation and part of the business and I gave you countless examples of others. You say he’s the franchise player but no that’s not true, Tatum is the franchise player.

    When I say all-nba lvl I just mean someone who is a lock but not mvp lvl. It doesn’t matter if he made it this year to my point is he’s a borderline guy in the top 20 range. Mitchell and Booker are
    Examples of guys who are locks every year. Even guys like lebron/kd are at that lvl not mvp lvl but all-nba locks. If you think jaylen is at the lvl of lebron or kd then fair but I think you’re overrating him then.

    Porzingis absolutely took a discount. Mil clippers etc would’ve extended jrue for more money if they had him. White is better than those 2 yea him deserving 40 is perfectly reasonable. Jaylen makes like 55 his first yr, I’m asking for it to be like 48 more than white no logical inconsistency. You’ve greatly underrated white the past year or two too even tbf lumping him with the other members of supporting cast. His agent shouldn’t care but the team does while they negotiate. If they tried to offer him less fair enough maybe he wouldnt take it.

    No need to put words in my mouth to win an argument. I said I’m not worried about Celtics financial situation or how much money the Celtics make. That’s irrelevant. It’s because of the 2nd apron and cap rules they can’t pay what he’ll get in fa. Subreddit fir Celtics discussed it they can’t keep hauser next offseason. Denver literally couldn’t give brown more than a certain amount it wasn’t a lack of money issue.
    If White can get 40 mil per from someone then good for him but with Holiday and Porzingis getting 30 per I don't see it. It's inconsistent that you think the Celtics should have tried to pay Brown 7mil per less because of what other teams could offer but somehow giving White 40 per makes perfect sense. Teams are going to be offering White 40 mil per? Who?

    Brown wouldn't have to feel slighted by haggling but all the statements that he made leading up to the extensions showed that he definitely would be. The Celtics had to deal with the reality and the reality currently has them up 2-0 in the conference finals. Your position could easily have cost them the best wing duo in the NBA and broken up a contender. No thanks.

    All that talk about luxury tax aprons is you being concerned with Grousbeck's money. Denver made a financial decision regarding certain roleplayers that may have cost them a shot at the title this year. That's their business. Doesn't mean the Celtics have to operate the same way.

  5. #50
    Bran Fam Member ImKobe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green View Post
    Teams are going to be offering White 40 mil per? Who?
    I wouldn't be surprised if the Spurs did. I don't think it would be as high as 40 but probably higher than what anyone else could afford to offer. Wemby's gonna be on a rookie contract (12-17M a year) up until 2027 and White would be the perfect vet to have on that team. They can afford to overpay for White & grab an All-star in a trade if they choose to part ways with some of their picks & players who did not fit that great with Victor last year.

  6. #51
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    So you think a rebuilding team is going to pay 40 mil per for a guy that didn't make the allstar team? Because I don't see how that's sensible. He's 9 or 10 years older than Wembanyama and if they wanted him badly enough to pay 40 mil per they wouldn't have traded him to the Celtics to begin with.

  7. #52
    Bran Fam Member ImKobe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Like I said, the Spurs can afford to overpay for an elite role player because of Wemby's contract if they have the space for it. White has arguably been the best player on the Celtics in these Playoffs because of how efficient he's been.

  8. #53
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by ImKobe View Post
    Like I said, the Spurs can afford to overpay for an elite role player because of Wemby's contract if they have the space for it. White has arguably been the best player on the Celtics in these Playoffs because of how efficient he's been.
    Tatum is averaging 25 points 10 rebounds and 5.6 assists. Brown is averaging 25 points 6.5 rebounds and hit a potentially historic clutch shot in Game 1 of the conference finals and also got the clutch steal that led to that clutch shot. Derrick White's 18 points and 4 assists are a good contribution but he's not on that level.

  9. #54
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    And again: San Antonio traded White away. They traded him away so that they could offer him 40 nil per to be 30+ years old on their rebuilding team? You guys will just say anything.

  10. #55
    Bran Fam Member ImKobe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green View Post
    Tatum is averaging 25 points 10 rebounds and 5.6 assists. Brown is averaging 25 points 6.5 rebounds and hit a potentially historic clutch shot in Game 1 of the conference finals and also got the clutch steal that led to that clutch shot. Derrick White's 18 points and 4 assists are a good contribution but he's not on that level.
    White leads them in WS, BPM & VORP in the POs. He's far more efficient than Tatum. He's shooting 8.4 threes per game and making 43.6% of them. His defense is great. He basically never turns the ball over either.

    There's definitely a case to be made. Also, if you're fine with paying Jaylen Brown 60+ Million a year, I think White is worth at least half of that figure, and the Celtics can't afford to match that offer.

  11. #56
    Bran Fam Member ImKobe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green View Post
    And again: San Antonio traded White away. They traded him away so that they could offer him 40 nil per to be 30+ years old on their rebuilding team? You guys will just say anything.
    They traded him away to tank for Wemby. They got Wemby now. I'm sure White wasn't interested to be on a tanking team either. Both sides would be happy to re-unite I'm sure. He makes so much sense in a Manu role on a team led by Victor.

  12. #57
    Titles are overrated Kblaze8855's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green View Post
    So you think a rebuilding team is going to pay 40 mil per for a guy that didn't make the allstar team? Because I don't see how that's sensible. He's 9 or 10 years older than Wembanyama and if they wanted him badly enough to pay 40 mil per they wouldn't have traded him to the Celtics to begin with.
    A team like the Spurs would be completely justified giving him 40 million. By the end of that 40 people will be making 65 or 70. 95 million a year is coming in the near future. 40 for white now will be like the 30 for Conley was once we realized people we never heard of would get 25. Went from the biggest contract in history to being completely normal in about 45 minutes.

    Plus a guy like white is probably never going to make an all NBA team, which would force your hand to make him a $400 million super max guy or have him walk. He’s comparable to Vanvleet right now who makes more than 40 before the cap explodes.

    Rookie extensions are up to $260 million. You can pay 40 something million to your third best player right now and have a talented lineup. You lock one in at 40 as the cap rises?

    Someone like Scotty Barnes is going to be making $78 million pretty soon and it won’t be an outlier. It’s gonna take expansion and larger rosters to have enough players in the league to keep the top guys from making 100 million during Whites career. Do the math on built-in 10% raises from the cap smoothing design to prevent the one year $40 million raise they would have to do without it. Start at 140 and add 10% a year from that.

    i’m talking about adding 14 million. Then 15+. Then 17. And all the money that doesn’t go to raising the cap immediately just gets rolled forward to cover future years it might not rise. So we’re looking at long term gigantic yearly raises. You lock him in at 40 flat and not a percentage of the cap? He gets cheaper every year till the end he’s 30% cheaper relatively speaking.


    It’s what so many people don’t realize. The new rights deal being more than double was foreseen and the extra money was rolled forward on purpose to ensure giant but manageable raises. The league and owners are going to make a lot more money than the CBA will allow them to pay the players immediately. They just have to roll it forward and pay it to the union eventually. It eliminates any possible downside.

    The owners don’t give a **** about salaries because they come out of a well of money deeper than they can even pay out. Players agreed to steady raises and no risk of cutbacks and owners have long term manageable costs they can predict and control. Any perceived mistakes can just be absorbed by cap increases and minimized.

    A 40 million guy you might prefer to pay 30 isn’t even a difference worth caring about to them anymore.

  13. #58
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by ImKobe View Post
    White leads them in WS, BPM & VORP in the POs. He's far more efficient than Tatum. He's shooting 8.4 threes per game and making 43.6% of them. His defense is great. He basically never turns the ball over either.

    There's definitely a case to be made. Also, if you're fine with paying Jaylen Brown 60+ Million a year, I think White is worth at least half of that figure, and the Celtics can't afford to match that offer.
    The Celtics are beating teams by double- digits with regulatory this postseason and you are bringing up "value over replacement" as of it matters. Jaylen Brown is the one that had stepped up most in these two conference Finals and the only Celtic that they don't win without. He's the guy that could win EC playoff mvp over Tatum, not White. If the Celtics make the Finals the play that everyone tenderness and the biggest play is going to be Brown stealing the win away from the Pacers. Nothing else comes close...and then he followed it up with 40 points in the next game.

    I am fine with White getting a billion dollars. I think he should go for a much money as possible. I just don't think a team should be paying him more than Holiday and Porzingis. If he gets more, good for him. None of that means that Brown shouldn't go for his money. When the time comes to negotiate I suspect the Celtics will be signing him to the correct deal.

  14. #59
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kblaze8855 View Post
    A team like the Spurs would be completely justified giving him 40 million. By the end of that 40 people will be making 65 or 70. 95 million a year is coming in the near future. 40 for white now will be like the 30 for Conley was once we realized people we never heard of would get 25. Went from the biggest contract in history to being completely normal in about 45 minutes.

    Plus a guy like white is probably never going to make an all NBA team, which would force your hand to make him a $400 million super max guy or have him walk. He’s comparable to Vanvleet right now who makes more than 40 before the cap explodes.

    Rookie extensions are up to $260 million. You can pay 40 something million to your third best player right now and have a talented lineup. You lock one in at 40 as the cap rises?

    Someone like Scotty Barnes is going to be making $78 million pretty soon and it won’t be an outlier. It’s gonna take expansion and larger rosters to have enough players in the league to keep the top guys from making 100 million during Whites career. Do the math on built-in 10% raises from the cap smoothing design to prevent the one year $40 million raise they would have to do without it. Start at 140 and add 10% a year from that.

    i’m talking about adding 14 million. Then 15+. Then 17. And all the money that doesn’t go to raising the cap immediately just gets rolled forward to cover future years it might not rise. So we’re looking at long term gigantic yearly raises. You lock him in at 40 flat and not a percentage of the cap? He gets cheaper every year till the end he’s 30% cheaper relatively speaking.


    It’s what so many people don’t realize. The new rights deal being more than double was foreseen and the extra money was rolled forward on purpose to ensure giant but manageable raises. The league and owners are going to make a lot more money than the CBA will allow them to pay the players immediately. They just have to roll it forward and pay it to the union eventually. It eliminates any possible downside.

    The owners don’t give a **** about salaries because they come out of a well of money deeper than they can even pay out. Players agreed to steady raises and no risk of cutbacks and owners have long term manageable costs they can predict and control. Any perceived mistakes can just be absorbed by cap increases and minimized.

    A 40 million guy you might prefer to pay 30 isn’t even a difference worth caring about to them anymore.
    If all this is true then great. Just more reason not to be concerned with Brown getting his deal.

  15. #60
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    Default Re: Would you say Jaylen Brown is now worth his contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by ImKobe View Post
    They traded him away to tank for Wemby. They got Wemby now. I'm sure White wasn't interested to be on a tanking team either. Both sides would be happy to re-unite I'm sure. He makes so much sense in a Manu role on a team led by Victor.
    He's 10 years older than Wembanyama, if they want a cow whose primes are a match he doesn't fit. Him going back there is only possible if he hits free agency which only happens if the Celtics can't agree to a deal. And if that's the case there's a high likelihood that the Celtics trade him, but it's more likely that they figure out what the right number is and he spends the rest of his prime competing for championships. The only thing better about San Antonio is the weather.

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