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  1. #1
    ... iamgine's Avatar
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    Default Ray Allen was a terrible choker

    Playoff:

    2008 vs Cavs 32.8 FG% 16.7 3Pt%

    2009 vs Orlando 34.4 FG% 19 3pt%

    2010 vs Lakers (minus game 2) 31.4 FG% 13.3 3pt%

    How are you one of the greatest shooter ever but can just suddenly go cold like this for a whole series multiple times with a great team.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Ray Allen was a terrible choker

    Quote Originally Posted by iamgine View Post
    Playoff:

    2008 vs Cavs 32.8 FG% 16.7 3Pt%

    2009 vs Orlando 34.4 FG% 19 3pt%

    2010 vs Lakers (minus game 2) 31.4 FG% 13.3 3pt%

    How are you one of the greatest shooter ever but can just suddenly go cold like this for a whole series multiple times with a great team.
    Probably because he was already 32-34 by then and past his prime. Allen was pretty clutch and a big game performer IIRC from '99-'05. Just look at his numbers from those years. He put up 25/5/5/1 on 48/44/89% splits (60% TS%).

    You wanted the ball in Allen's hands back then. And that was largely the height of the defensive era, including the lockout season in '99.

  3. #3
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer warriorfan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ray Allen was a terrible choker

    Quote Originally Posted by HoopsNY View Post
    Probably because he was already 32-34 by then and past his prime. Allen was pretty clutch and a big game performer IIRC from '99-'05. Just look at his numbers from those years. He put up 25/5/5/1 on 48/44/89% splits (60% TS%).

    You wanted the ball in Allen's hands back then. And that was largely the height of the defensive era, including the lockout season in '99.
    and the three teams in op were all great defensive teams

  4. #4
    ... iamgine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ray Allen was a terrible choker

    Quote Originally Posted by HoopsNY View Post
    Probably because he was already 32-34 by then and past his prime. Allen was pretty clutch and a big game performer IIRC from '99-'05. Just look at his numbers from those years. He put up 25/5/5/1 on 48/44/89% splits (60% TS%).

    You wanted the ball in Allen's hands back then. And that was largely the height of the defensive era, including the lockout season in '99.
    Before Boston Ray didn't make that many playoff. Was great in 01 but not that good vs Spurs in 05.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Ray Allen was a terrible choker

    Quote Originally Posted by iamgine View Post
    Before Boston Ray didn't make that many playoff. Was great in 01 but not that good vs Spurs in 05.
    The sample size is still 7 total series from 1999-05. We can't just ignore it, especially when the sample you're focusing on is only 3 series.

    You're isolating the bad ones, some of which you haven't mentioned, but you're also not looking at some of the other good ones from that same time period.

    2008 vs. DET: 18 PPG on 59% TS%
    2008 vs. LAL: 20 PPG on 66% TS%

    2009 vs. CHI: 23 PPG on 63% TS%

    2010 vs. MIA: 19 PPG on 69% TS%
    2010 vs. ORL: 16 PPG on 58% TS%

    2011 vs. NYK: 22 PPG on 76% TS%
    2011 vs. BOS: 16 PPG on 66% TS%

    This isn't some anomaly. Allen was an all time great shooter and he proved it many times. And just because we saw his PPG dip a little wasn't indicative of his scoring, but because of the system and number of players sharing the ball.
    Last edited by HoopsNY; 06-11-2024 at 10:59 AM.

  6. #6
    NBA All-star GimmeThat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ray Allen was a terrible choker

    back then PG and SG didn't really run PnR

  7. #7
    Please clap. Real Men Wear Green's Avatar
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  8. #8
    ... iamgine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ray Allen was a terrible choker

    Quote Originally Posted by HoopsNY View Post
    The sample size is still 7 total series from 1999-05. We can't just ignore it, especially when the sample you're focusing on is only 3 series.

    You're isolating the bad ones, some of which you haven't mentioned, but you're also not looking at some of the other good ones.

    2008 vs. DET: 18 PPG on 59% TS%
    2008 vs. LAL: 20 PPG on 66% TS%

    2009 vs. CHI: 23 PPG on 63% TS%

    2010 vs. MIA: 19 PPG on 69% TS%
    2010 vs. ORL: 16 PPG on 58% TS%

    2011 vs. NYK: 22 PPG on 76% TS%
    2011 vs. BOS: 16 PPG on 66% TS%

    This isn't some anomaly. Allen was an all time great shooter and he proved it many times. And just because we saw his PPG dip a little wasn't indicative of his scoring, but because of the system and number of players sharing the ball.
    He was good in Boston. It's just that every season he'd go super cold for a whole series. Do you want a great shooter who can randomly cost you a series every season with his performance?

  9. #9
    ISH's Negro Historian L.Kizzle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ray Allen was a terrible choker

    Quote Originally Posted by iamgine View Post
    Playoff:

    2008 vs Cavs 32.8 FG% 16.7 3Pt%

    2009 vs Orlando 34.4 FG% 19 3pt%

    2010 vs Lakers (minus game 2) 31.4 FG% 13.3 3pt%

    How are you one of the greatest shooter ever but can just suddenly go cold like this for a whole series multiple times with a great team.
    Reggie, Bird, Klay, Steph, KD and many more great shooters have had bad shooting series. Not sure what this is trying to prove?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Ray Allen was a terrible choker

    Quote Originally Posted by iamgine View Post
    He was good in Boston. It's just that every season he'd go super cold for a whole series. Do you want a great shooter who can randomly cost you a series every season with his performance?
    Given the longevity of his career, it's to be expected. But Allen was clutch for the better part of his career. Because he had some series where he didn't shoot that well, usually against elite defensive teams, isn't indicative of his ability. Anyone who watched him from 1997-2006 saw how clutch he was in both the regular season and playoffs.

  11. #11
    ... iamgine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ray Allen was a terrible choker

    Quote Originally Posted by L.Kizzle View Post
    Reggie, Bird, Klay, Steph, KD and many more great shooters have had bad shooting series. Not sure what this is trying to prove?
    Bad is one thing. This is ultra bad. Series costing bad. When he's not even the first option.

  12. #12
    ... iamgine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ray Allen was a terrible choker

    Quote Originally Posted by HoopsNY View Post
    Given the longevity of his career, it's to be expected. But Allen was clutch for the better part of his career. Because he had some series where he didn't shoot that well, usually against elite defensive teams, isn't indicative of his ability. Anyone who watched him from 1997-2006 saw how clutch he was in both the regular season and playoffs.
    It's to be expected he'd go super cold for a whole series for multiple years? Not sure I expect that.

    He didn't even make many playoff before Boston.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Ray Allen was a terrible choker

    Quote Originally Posted by iamgine View Post
    It's to be expected he'd go super cold for a whole series for multiple years? Not sure I expect that.

    He didn't even make many playoff before Boston.
    This literally happened with a lot of great shooters. As L.Kizzle mentioned, it happened with guys like Klay or even guys like Peja. Allan Houston was like that, so was Hornacek. Even Reggie had some series where he didn't shoot well. How would Ray Allen doing the same be any different?

    I think the reason why you might be focused on him is because he was on two championship teams, but Klay was a champion and guys like Reggie, Hornacek, and Houston all made the finals (Hornacek 2x).

  14. #14
    NBA Legend FKAri's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ray Allen was a terrible choker

    And LeBron won with this choker on his team? Incredible!

  15. #15
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer tpols's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ray Allen was a terrible choker

    Quote Originally Posted by HoopsNY View Post
    This literally happened with a lot of great shooters. As L.Kizzle mentioned, it happened with guys like Klay or even guys like Peja. Allan Houston was like that, so was Hornacek. Even Reggie had some series where he didn't shoot well. How would Ray Allen doing the same be any different?

    I think the reason why you might be focused on him is because he was on two championship teams, but Klay was a champion and guys like Reggie, Hornacek, and Houston all made the finals (Hornacek 2x).
    Can you name a series where Curry or Reggie shot 16% or 13% from 3pt range? Thats... next level bad.

    The 2016 Finals were the worst series of Currys career and he shot 40% from 3. And that was as 1st option facing hard doubles the entire time.

    13%?

    I'm not complaining because I'm a Kobe fan and if Ray even shot 25% in the 2010 Finals given how close the margin was Lakers would've lost.

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