Bo Outlaw: the most underrated defender ever?

[Im Still Ballin]

He's ranked 16th in vanilla lifetime defensive RAPM and 13th in an age curve-adjusted version of the same data. All the names above him aside from Arvydas Sabonis, Shawn Bradley, and Nene have either won DPOY, made All-D teams, or both.

Although he never made an All-D team Bo did get some DPOY votes in '96, '98, and '00. He came off the bench most of the time and rarely averaged more than 30 minutes per game. I'm sure that was a big factor in his lack of defensive accolades. Starters played more minutes back then.

His defensive box-score numbers were fantastic. Extremely impressive block and steal rates for a versatile, undersized guy playing all three front-court positions. DBPM is right up there; he led the league one season.

He finished fifth in DPOY when he got 36.0 mpg in 1997-98. But his best defensive seasons are probably either 1996-97 or 1999-00. Both years have some wild discrepancies between his on/off numbers and his teammates. Here's how a RealGM poster detailed his '97 season:

Outlaw is one of the most underrated defensive players ever. He was among the league leaders in defensive RAPM in the late 90s with Mutombo / Robinson and not even the RAPM supporters on this board seem to notice. Outlaw's career defensive on-off post 2001 in his 30s is -5.8 in the regular season and -8.0 in playoffs - limited minutes but those are absolutely elite numbers.

In 1997 when he led the league in NPI defensive RAPM, here is how his on/off compares to his teammates on the Clippers...

Net On/Off
+15.6 Bo Outlaw
-0.8 Rodney Rogers
-1.2 Lorenzen Wright
-12.7 Malik Sealy
-15.9 Loy Vaught

Defensive On/Off
-11.4 Bo Outlaw
+2.8 Lorenzen Wright
+2.9 Rodney Rogers
+4.8 Malik Sealy
+9.3 Loy Vaught

* Estimates based off NBA.com on-court net ratings

Outlaw left in free agency and the Clippers started the next season 1-11 with a league worst +12.5 defense before Vaught (their worst defender who gets all the credit because of better box score) had a season-ending injury. Even without Vaught, Clippers still suffered a massive blow without Outlaw and ended with a bottom +6 defense for the next few years. Outlaw had huge defensive impact and it's a shame he never got the recognition he deserved for carrying that pathetic team to an on court -3.9 D.

That Clippers team won 36 games and made the playoffs in a weak conference with a very forgettable cast of players coached by Bill Fitch.

The 1999-00 Orlando Magic were projected to be the worst team in the NBA. They had lost their highest-minute players Penny Hardaway, Nick Anderson, and Horace Grant. With a rookie coach (Doc Rivers), they would go on to win 41 games and narrowly miss the playoffs in a season dubbed "Heart and Hustle."

The play-by-play data is similar to 1996-97:

Net On/Off
+13.1 Bo Outlaw
+1.4 Ben Wallace
-2.4 Darrell Armstrong
-0.1 John Amaechi
-1.4 Chucky Atkins

Defensive On/Off
-9.4 Bo Outlaw
-5.0 Ben Wallace
-1.4 Darrell Armstrong
-1.3 John Amaechi
+4.1 Chucky Atkins

Bo had that team at a 97.6 DRtg when he was on the court. That would be the equivalent of playing 0.6 points better than the top-ranked 98.2 DRtg Lakers defense that season. League average ORtg was 104.1 so that on-court DRtg was like -6.5 rDRtg.

And it wasn't like Bo wasn't playing much: 2,313 minutes. Only Armstrong was on the court more.

Pretty remarkable stuff.

If you dive deeper into the play-by-play data/lineup numbers, you notice that his defensive impact is coming from his ability to lower the opponent's eFG% and FTr while increasing their TOV%. He's not adding value by impacting team defensive rebounding/limiting opponent second-chance points.

Here's a look at his RAPM defensive four factors:



The position you play is going to generally determine what kind of impact you'll have on defense. Guards and wings tend to generate more turnovers for instance. PFs and Cs will usually have a greater influence on lowering opponent shooting percentages and free-throw rates while improving team defensive rebounding.

But the lines do get blurred and there are outliers. Versatile defenders who can defend several positions often have hybrid qualities. Hakeem, Garnett, Ben Wallace, and Draymond have guard-like steal rates and lineups featuring them generate turnovers likewise. Bo Outlaw falls into this category.

His positional outlier quality is his turnover generation. Basketball Reference has him as playing SF 33%, PF 54%, and C 14% of the time over his career (data only going back to '97.) He played slightly more SF (34%/52%/14%) in his best years from '97 to '04.

His position can be graded out to a 3.8 average. This compares very favorably to Josh Smith (3.8), Draymond (3.9), Garnett (4.2), Rasheed Wallace (4.3), Robert Horry (3.9), Luc Mbah a Moute (3.6), Giannis (3.7), Kenyon Martin (4.2), Lamar Odom (3.8), Andrei Kirilenko (3.3), Shawn Marion (3.3), Robert Covington (3.5), Herbert Jones (3.7), and Justice Winslow (3.4).

Era is obviously a factor here.

Of all players in the 28-year RAPM database from a 3.3 to a 4.3 positional average, no one has a greater DTOV than Bo Outlaw. Meaning, that no one's presence on-court results in as many opponent turnovers.

Robert Covington and Thaddeus Young are the closest. Otto Porter Jr, Kirilenko, and Draymond aren't that far off.

Hell, including every player/all 5 positions he's still 15th. 7th for 2.0 to 5.0.

But once you cross reference that with lineup impact on opponent eFG%, that's when things become clear. The only 3.3-4.3 guys in the same ballpark for overall defensive impact (D-RAPM), defensive influence on eFG% (DEFG%), and turnover generation (DTOV%) are Draymond Green and Kevin Garnett. With Robert Horry a little ways off.

You can play with the numbers here: https://nbarapm-flask.replit.app/datasets/LifetimeRAPM

Anyways. This is getting a bit long so I'll end it here. But Bo Outlaw was a hell of a defender. He looks a lot like Draymond Green on defense per the numbers.

28-year vanilla defensive RAPM

1. Kevin Garnett [-6.3 per 100]
2. Dikembe Mutombo [-6.0 per 100]
3. Alex Caruso [-5.4 per 100]
4. Alonzo Mourning [-5.4 per 100]
5. Draymond Green [-5.2 per 100]
6. Tim Duncan [-5.1 per 100]
7. Rudy Gobert [-5.1 per 100]
8. Shawn Bradley [-5.1 per 100]
9. Ben Wallace [-5.0 per 100]
10. Paul George [-4.6 per 100]
11. Joel Embiid [-4.6 per 100]
12. Nene [-4.5 per 100]
13. David Robinson [-4.4 per 100]
14. Arvydas Sabonis [-4.4 per 100]
15. Andrew Bogut [-4.4 per 100]
16. Bo Outlaw [-4.3 per 100]

28-year age curve-adjusted defensive RAPM

1. Kevin Garnett [-6.4 per 100]
2. Dikembe Mutombo [-5.6 per 100]
3. Rudy Gobert [-5.3 per 100]
4. Draymond Green [-5.3 per 100]
5. Alex Caruso [-5.3 per 100]
6. Ben Wallace [-4.9 per 100]
7. Tim Duncan [-4.9 per 100]
8. Andrew Bogut [-4.8 per 100]
9. Joel Embiid [-4.7 per 100]
10. Shawn Bradley [-4.6 per 100]
11. Alonzo Mourning [-4.4 per 100]
12. David Robinson [-4.4 per 100]
13. Bo Outlaw [-4.4 per 100]

[Im Still Ballin]

[Im Still Ballin]

I'll also add that I think his defense would be more valuable today. Generating turnovers has never been more valuable due to the increase in league-wide ORtg. That's the biggest reason why Caruso's defensive impact numbers are so crazy. He generates more turnovers than anyone in the 28-year sample I believe.

You'd just need to find the right offensive fit for Bo.

[Xiao Yao You]

Cant take those nu.bers seriously with a bum like gobert in there

[L.Kizzle]

No. Next.
We dome wit the 90s.
Also, Tyrone Hill was better.

[post]

good player

[ILLsmak]

No. Next.
We dome wit the 90s.
Also, Tyrone Hill was better.

Was he? Tyrone was different; crazy reb and post type defender, for sure. I can't go into all those spreadsheets of stats, but I always found Bo to be interesting. He was like a SF, wasn't he? Would have been interesting to see him in today's game as a C.

-Smak

[L.Kizzle]

Was he? Tyrone was different; crazy reb and post type defender, for sure. I can't go into all those spreadsheets of stats, but I always found Bo to be interesting. He was like a SF, wasn't he? Would have been interesting to see him in today's game as a C.

-Smak

I think Bo was a PF.
Tyrone Hill peaked as an All-Star in the 90s. Probably a level or two below PFs like Otis Thorpe and Charles Oakley.

[StrongLurk]

Good shit OP

[Im Still Ballin]

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...641-story.html

“Bo’s our energizer and our defensive specialist,” said forward Loy Vaught, the Clippers’ leading scorer. “He’s always going to give 110%”

Outlaw, who averaged 7.6 points and 5.5 rebounds this season, concentrates on defense.

“The way I play, I can’t be the greatest,” Outlaw said. “The greatest has to score 30 points a game. But I can be one of the great defenders. If I’m a great defender, I’ll take that.”

But don’t look for Outlaw on the NBA’s all-defensive team.

“It’s hard for a Clipper to make anything because we don’t get the respect,” Outlaw said. “Whenever they mention great players, nobody from the Clippers gets in the picture. It’s hard for us to get awards when we don’t get respect.”

Outlaw battles for respect. He wears protective goggles, has stitches over both eyes and his ear, and dozens of tiny scars from his mini-wars.

“You’ve seen me get hit in the eyes,” he said. “If I didn’t have the goggles, where would I be? I’d have blood clots in the eyes and I wouldn’t be able to see.”

Outlaw spends a lot of time in the weight room.

“He’s the strongest guy on the team,” said Clipper conditioning coach Johnny Doyle. “He has the lowest body fat [2.2%] on the team. The average body fat is about 6%.”

Outlaw wasn’t always a strongman. In fact, he was so skinny at John Jay High in San Antonio that he was hesitant to try out for the basketball team.

“I lined up with the swimming team because I’d swam in middle school, but the coach told me I was in the wrong line so I had to go try out for basketball,” he said. “If I hadn’t gotten into basketball, maybe I would have been an Olympic swimmer.

“But I was the last guy picked for the B team and I had to keep score for the varsity and then I’d play. My coach told me the reason he picked me was, he saw something in me that nobody else saw.”

Outlaw comes by his persistence from his mother, Nadlene, who worked two jobs while raising three children.

“I worked in a bar and Bo doesn’t know it, but I moved houses too,” she said. “One summer, Bo asked me if he had to help me by working and I told him no, he didn’t have to help me. He went to the gym every day and played basketball. He set his mind to becoming a basketball player. I’m so happy that he doesn’t get big-headed about what he’s doing.”

Outlaw repaid his mother by buying her a new house and two luxury cars.

“My mother took care of me for 20-odd years, so now it’s time for me to take care of her,” he said. “She can just sit back and relax. It’s no problem at all.”

And who says mothers shouldn’t let their babies grow up to be Outlaws?

[Im Still Ballin]

A couple of quotes from a 1998 SLAM article:

“To me, he’s a mini-Dennis Rodman who can block shots better,” Daly said of 'Bo,' who he coached on the Orlando Magic. - Chuck Daly

“My game is hard work. That's as simple as I can put it,” the San Antonio, Texas, native said.

[Im Still Ballin]

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...844-story.html

MILWAUKEE — Clipper swingman Charles “Bo” Outlaw learned the value of hard work at an early age from his mother, Nadlene, who raised three children by herself after her husband left them.

Making his first start of the season in place of Rodney Rogers, who reportedly walked off the court in practice Saturday after a disagreement with Coach Bill Fitch, Outlaw blocked a season-high seven shots as the Clippers ended a seven-game road losing streak with a 99-86 victory over the Milwaukee Bucks Sunday before 15,416 at the Bradley Center.

“Whether we’re on a 10-game losing streak, or a five I can always depend on Outlaw to supply the energy,” Fitch said after the Clippers ended a two-game losing streak. “Bo supplied the energy on defense with his blocked shots.”

Outlaw made five of eight shots, and had 12 points, eight rebounds, four assists and two steals in a season-high 43 minutes.

“We threw them a curveball by having Bo out there,” Clipper forward Loy Vaught said. “I think it really hurt them. He changed the complexion of the game.”

Outlaw takes pride in his defense.

“You can teach anybody to shoot the ball, but you can’t teach defense,” Outlaw said. “Defense comes from inside.”
Forward Lamond Murray, who had 16 points and six rebounds in 27 minutes as a reserve, said Outlaw’s defense helped spark the Clipper fastbreak.

“He brought a lot of defensive energy, which we needed,” Murray said. “He was blocking shots and starting the fastbreak.”

The Clippers played good defense as the Bucks missed 15 of 20 shots in the final quarter. Forward Glenn Robinson missed five of six shots and Vin Baker missed four of five shots in the fourth quarter.

“Our fourth-quarter defense was a key,” Fitch said. “The Bucks scored only two points in their first 11 possessions. That was huge.”

And Outlaw made a huge impact as the Clippers swept a season series from the Bucks for the first time since 1992-93.

[Im Still Ballin]

https://a.espncdn.com/nba/news/2001/1116/1279208.html

Outlaw, in his ninth NBA season, brings much-needed defense, rebounding, size and hustle to the Suns.

"We're nine games into our season and we have been on the floor twice for loose balls," Suns coach Scott Skiles said. "That's not going to cut it. One word, kind of an old fashioned word, comes to mind when you think of him, and that's hustle.

"There are certain players in the league who have the reputation of giving it to you every single night, and he's one of them."

Outlaw was in uniform for Friday night's game against the Los Angeles Lakers.

"It's a good feeling that somebody wants you that bad to work things out the way they did," Outlaw said of the trade. "I'm just going to try to come out here and help my teammates. I've been saying for five or six years now, it's not about me, it's about we."

Outlaw is expected to play 20-to-25 minutes off the bench for Phoenix, far more than either Buechler or Del Negro did.

"Bo Outlaw should immediately impact the energy level of this basketball team," Suns president Bryan Colangelo said. "He has proven to be an effective defender, rebounder and shot blocker. He can change the flow of the game."

[Im Still Ballin]

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/1999...-back-in-town/

"Bo can do it all. He's been our third point guard. He's started at small forward. He can play about anywhere," said John Gabriel, Magic general manager. "There is not much he can't do. He's about playing basketball, working hard. He has that unique ability to put all else aside and just concentrate on the game. Every team in the league deserves to have a Bo Outlaw on the roster."

...

"Bo is energy. He's what you want on the floor and off the floor," Gabriel said. "He's always ready when the season starts. You don't have to worry about that. He's going to be a big part of the Magic."

[Im Still Ballin]

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/1997...o-spark-magic/

When the Orlando Magic signed forward Charles “Bo” Outlaw to a free-agent contract in the off-season, they knew they were getting an excellent defensive player.

On Saturday night, Magic fans found out Bo also knows offense.

Outlaw, who was 15th in the NBA last season in blocked shots per game (1.73), came up big on the offensive end against the visiting Toronto Raptors, sparking Orlando to a 96-87 victory at Orlando Arena.

Outlaw wound up with season highs in points (16), assists (7) and rebounds (10), making his first start of the season a memorable one.

“It was a good lineup tonight,” Magic guard Penny Hardaway said. “With the veteran point guard (Mark Price), and then you have Bo, who’s going to have a lot of energy the entire game. . . . You really don’t fall into a lull in the first quarter.”

Outlaw and Price each scored six points and had three assists to lead the Magic to a 25-24 first-quarter lead.

Outlaw was inserted into the starting lineup earlier in the day when Nick Anderson was scratched with a jammed left thumb.

“That’s what you like when people can step in and perform the way he did,” Magic coach Chuck Daly said. “He almost had a triple-double. He had a terrific offensive night, and he’s a non-shooter, basically.

“But he gets baskets because he moves without the ball. He’s around the board; he can defend; he runs the court. . . . He’s almost bionic.”

Not quite, but he was very impressive.

Early in the third quarter, when the Magic started to distance themselves from the Raptors, Outlaw’s diversity really shined. Consider:

He scored on a reverse layup at the 10:20 mark, then threw down two of his four powerful dunks to help give Orlando a 68-58 lead with 3:59 to play.

Meanwhile, the fifth-year pro from the University of Houston grabbed three rebounds, had one steal and made a behind-the-back pass to Penny Hardaway on a fast-break layup.

Outlaw downplayed his coming-out party.

“I was just in the way,” he said. “I was just coming out and playing my game and trying to help my team.”
But the offense?

“My teammates put me in easy situations,” he said. “If I can’t make a layup, then, hey. . . . Half my points came on layups and dunks.”

OK, but what about those career-high seven assists?

“That was an accident,” he said with a smile. “I lost control of the ball, and my teammates just happen to shoot it.”
Does this mean his defensive reputation might not be accurate?

“It doesn’t matter what people think,” he said. “If people think I’m not going to score, that’s good for me. If you don’t guard me, I’ll show you.

“I’m the one who doesn’t speak. I let my actions speak.”

He was loud and clear Saturday night.

Originally Published: November 9, 1997 at 5:00 a.m.