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Life goes on.
Re: Jokic and Westbrook's chemistry is insane
 Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
I don’t see George, KD, or Harden with rings on any team that didn’t win them without them and Jokic has one in ten years. Simple truth is most great players don’t win but not winning is only attributed to the style of a certain type.
You give John Stockton an mvp caliber always healthy and available running mate…an additional all star…a 6th man of the year…and a DPOY. They go out in the first round. There is no “They didn’t have a chance. Wonder if it’s the point guard?”. No matter how many awful playoff letdowns they have.
It just doesn’t feeeeeel like it could be because of that.
And it wasn’t.
But we aren’t really talking results. People who aren’t blamed have Westbrook like team results all the time to little criticism of how they play.
there’s really nothing to criticize in Kevin Durant’s game but he’s been in the league 17 years and only won anything Westbrook hasn’t when he was on a team that did it before and after him.
KD, Harden, and Kyrie got together and didn’t do shit either.
So much can happen in a season it just doesn’t always come down to how individually good your players are. Winning takes both the right team…then 10 things that could go wrong not going wrong…and then getting lucky enough nobody else has both the team and the luck to make it a fair fight.
Russ is nowhere on the list of guys who had the most talented teams and didn’t win.
Dudes like Nash and Paul have been skating by with epic lineups that did nothing for decades.
Guys like Russ just….feeeeeel more responsible for it. End result?
Hes had a pretty normal second or third tier legend career. And that’s what he is. I don’t think his biggest fans have him as some elite among elites.
Hes your run of the mill legend. Great. But no so great he’s supposed to be leading dynasties.
Nobody else had KD on their squad.
This is my logic: I think OKC was (superstar caliber) WB's best team. Maybe he changed and he is better now. He was there with a player who was in most people's eyes better. He did seem to vibe with him on a lot of levels, but when I watched those games, I recall many times where WB would dribble it up and shoot without even looking for the pass. I'd say more than he is indeed a legend tier talent, but he is flawed in certain ways. He should not be the primary ball handler, and since KD couldn't bring it up back then, he had to be. KD even tried to bring it up when WB was making shit decisions, but he failed, too, because he's not a PG.
So, is WB a cancer.... kind of. Haha. I feel like he might be the most cancerous player in NBA history when considering how good he is. I don't think there has been a player who can do so much that was so hampered by his mental game. He is a legit MVP talent. If you wanna put him down some rungs from the other great players of his generation, ok, but even then you are conceding that something other than his skill put him there. As for every player loving him, I don't care what KD said, there is no way that dude loved him haha. KD is a weirdo, sure, but you could tell by how he acted that he was like YOOO a lot. You can enjoy going to war with someone like that, but you don't love them. GSW was all time stacked, true, but it showed how perfect KD is in his role. I fully believe if he had been able to put KD in those spots + do the Westbrook thing, with that team, they would have continued to be formidable.
I just know he could be better. You are usually saying some stuff about having it both ways. Well, I think this is a both ways situation. He isn't John Stockton, ok. But like... of his PG peers, he is right at the top in terms of ability. If he's 2nd or 3rd tier to them, it's because something ain't right about the way he is playing. It's not his skill set, tho he is not a great shooter. I don't know if it matters so much with how he plays. It matters, but not enough to knock him down, imo.
This generation has other cancerous players, too, I guess... but like Embiid... injured, kinda weird. Harden, just weird... is he better than those guys? To me, YES, but again NO because he is bound to **** up the game by making bad decisions. He is a more impactful player in his prime, all things considered.
Edit: so it's not some hypothetical thing. We've seen what he can do and we've seen him **** up the game. If he didn't **** up the game, he would be better. Because he ****s up the game, people dislike him. Most people who liked him didn't really get a chance to play with him in a situation where him ****ing up the game would matter, like deep in the playoffs. They might feel differently having 5 years of that. Jussayin.
-Smak
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NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: Jokic and Westbrook's chemistry is insane
 Originally Posted by ILLsmak
Nobody else had KD on their squad.
This is my logic: I think OKC was (superstar caliber) WB's best team. Maybe he changed and he is better now. He was there with a player who was in most people's eyes better. He did seem to vibe with him on a lot of levels, but when I watched those games, I recall many times where WB would dribble it up and shoot without even looking for the pass. I'd say more than he is indeed a legend tier talent, but he is flawed in certain ways. He should not be the primary ball handler, and since KD couldn't bring it up back then, he had to be. KD even tried to bring it up when WB was making shit decisions, but he failed, too, because he's not a PG.
So, is WB a cancer.... kind of. Haha. I feel like he might be the most cancerous player in NBA history when considering how good he is. I don't think there has been a player who can do so much that was so hampered by his mental game. He is a legit MVP talent. If you wanna put him down some rungs from the other great players of his generation, ok, but even then you are conceding that something other than his skill put him there. As for every player loving him, I don't care what KD said, there is no way that dude loved him haha. KD is a weirdo, sure, but you could tell by how he acted that he was like YOOO a lot. You can enjoy going to war with someone like that, but you don't love them. GSW was all time stacked, true, but it showed how perfect KD is in his role. I fully believe if he had been able to put KD in those spots + do the Westbrook thing, with that team, they would have continued to be formidable.
I just know he could be better. You are usually saying some stuff about having it both ways. Well, I think this is a both ways situation. He isn't John Stockton, ok. But like... of his PG peers, he is right at the top in terms of ability. If he's 2nd or 3rd tier to them, it's because something ain't right about the way he is playing. It's not his skill set, tho he is not a great shooter. I don't know if it matters so much with how he plays. It matters, but not enough to knock him down, imo.
This generation has other cancerous players, too, I guess... but like Embiid... injured, kinda weird. Harden, just weird... is he better than those guys? To me, YES, but again NO because he is bound to **** up the game by making bad decisions. He is a more impactful player in his prime, all things considered.
Edit: so it's not some hypothetical thing. We've seen what he can do and we've seen him **** up the game. If he didn't **** up the game, he would be better. Because he ****s up the game, people dislike him. Most people who liked him didn't really get a chance to play with him in a situation where him ****ing up the game would matter, like deep in the playoffs. They might feel differently having 5 years of that. Jussayin.
-Smak
Yea... it's obvious that every star is going to lose most years of their career when it comes to rings. Even MJ is only 6/15 which is a losing record for the championship.
Players who have superstar talent lose all the time, but I don't see how it's not logical to break down why they lost so mistakes can be attempted to be corrected.
If one player shoots 30% from the floor and is all time inefficient and his opposition shoots it lights out but ends up losing, I'm not gonna blame the guy who clearly outplayed his star counterpart just because he lost. That's actually exactly what happened in the 2001 ECFs. Ray Allen massively outplayed Allen Iverson but his team lost because their defense was weak and the Sixers defense was super elite.
So Iverson somehow put up way worse numbers vs a way weaker defense. Im... going to judge that. And don't see anything wrong with evaluating context and making an appropriate analysis.
When it comes to Westbrook he's a crash out king which is why he's been passed around the league over and over. Everybody dumps him for a reason.
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Banned
Re: Jokic and Westbrook's chemistry is insane
 Originally Posted by Axe
It seems picking him up has been good for them so far. The retard below you is a flaming homosexual btw.
^It's quite obvious why this low IQ poster was overwhelmingly voted dumbest poster in ISH history.
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Titles are overrated
Re: Jokic and Westbrook's chemistry is insane
Players who have superstar talent lose all the time, but I don't see how it's not logical to break down why they lost so mistakes can be attempted to be corrected.
The problem is the people attempting to do it almost never know what they’re talking about. It’s just the most basic of analysis like well….this guy shot this percentage and therefore made the team lose. It only makes sense to people who don’t know basketball. It’s the most surface level of discussion. obviously a game that has almost 200 shots taken one player going eight for 20 as opposed to 10 for 20 doesn’t decide 200 offensive possessions.
it makes no more sense to assume a missed shot from a star could be converted to a made shot by someone else had he been less selfish than to assume if he had taken the 25 shots missed by the role players that even if he made only five of them, he increases the teams total points without increasing the teams total shot attempts. Making the team more efficient while reducing his own shooting percentage drastically.
There are such a drastic leap between a guy missed these two shots I have no reason to think shouldn’t have been taken and the 2 misses being the reason for the outcome when 18 other people took a combined 161 shots that game..
There’s nothing wrong with trying to figure out why team lost but individual shooting percentage when there might literally be 150 other shots taken, 600 passes, 78 ISO attempts, 46 coaching decisions, 2 injuries and 8 bad calls?
I’m not saying not to try. But I’m saying the harder you look the less individual it all is. But fans can’t see the big picture.
There’s a reason damn near every coach from college on up talks incessantly about defense An abstract matters. So much more is going on than people who obsess about shooting numbers ever talk about.
Like I said, it’s fine to talk about but when the team sits down to watch film they don’t determine the problem with a 137 to be 126 game was one guy missing 2 more shots than would make him “efficient” while literally 300 other things happened to get the final score where it is.
fans have just way over individualized games. And it’s largely the NBA’s fault the way they market things. It just really gives a shit impression to people who don’t have a lot of time to look that close.
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aUtIsM sPeAkS®️
Re: Jokic and Westbrook's chemistry is insane
 Originally Posted by tpols
Even MJ is only 6/15 which is a losing record for the championship.
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XXL
Re: Jokic and Westbrook's chemistry is insane
 Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
The problem is the people attempting to do it almost never know what they’re talking about. It’s just the most basic of analysis like well….this guy shot this percentage and therefore made the team lose. It only makes sense to people who don’t know basketball. It’s the most surface level of discussion. obviously a game that has almost 200 shots taken one player going eight for 20 as opposed to 10 for 20 doesn’t decide 200 offensive possessions.
it makes no more sense to assume a missed shot from a star could be converted to a made shot by someone else had he been less selfish than to assume if he had taken the 25 shots missed by the role players that even if he made only five of them, he increases the teams total points without increasing the teams total shot attempts. Making the team more efficient while reducing his own shooting percentage drastically.
There are such a drastic leap between a guy missed these two shots I have no reason to think shouldn’t have been taken and the 2 misses being the reason for the outcome when 18 other people took a combined 161 shots that game..
There’s nothing wrong with trying to figure out why team lost but individual shooting percentage when there might literally be 150 other shots taken, 600 passes, 78 ISO attempts, 46 coaching decisions, 2 injuries and 8 bad calls?
I’m not saying not to try. But I’m saying the harder you look the less individual it all is. But fans can’t see the big picture.
There’s a reason damn near every coach from college on up talks incessantly about defense An abstract matters. So much more is going on than people who obsess about shooting numbers ever talk about.
Like I said, it’s fine to talk about but when the team sits down to watch film they don’t determine the problem with a 137 to be 126 game was one guy missing 2 more shots than would make him “efficient” while literally 300 other things happened to get the final score where it is.
fans have just way over individualized games. And it’s largely the NBA’s fault the way they market things. It just really gives a shit impression to people who don’t have a lot of time to look that close.
Facts. Guys who look nice in the box score like shooters get the benefit of the doubt over defensive players. From the fans and media anyway.
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Re: Jokic and Westbrook's chemistry is insane
John Stockton wasn't MVP caliber.
Jokic is playing with a former MVP. I guess that excludes him from MVP consideration?
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Life goes on.
Re: Jokic and Westbrook's chemistry is insane
 Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
The problem is the people attempting to do it almost never know what they’re talking about. It’s just the most basic of analysis like well….this guy shot this percentage and therefore made the team lose. It only makes sense to people who don’t know basketball. It’s the most surface level of discussion. obviously a game that has almost 200 shots taken one player going eight for 20 as opposed to 10 for 20 doesn’t decide 200 offensive possessions.
it makes no more sense to assume a missed shot from a star could be converted to a made shot by someone else had he been less selfish than to assume if he had taken the 25 shots missed by the role players that even if he made only five of them, he increases the teams total points without increasing the teams total shot attempts. Making the team more efficient while reducing his own shooting percentage drastically.
There are such a drastic leap between a guy missed these two shots I have no reason to think shouldn’t have been taken and the 2 misses being the reason for the outcome when 18 other people took a combined 161 shots that game..
There’s nothing wrong with trying to figure out why team lost but individual shooting percentage when there might literally be 150 other shots taken, 600 passes, 78 ISO attempts, 46 coaching decisions, 2 injuries and 8 bad calls?
I’m not saying not to try. But I’m saying the harder you look the less individual it all is. But fans can’t see the big picture.
There’s a reason damn near every coach from college on up talks incessantly about defense An abstract matters. So much more is going on than people who obsess about shooting numbers ever talk about.
Like I said, it’s fine to talk about but when the team sits down to watch film they don’t determine the problem with a 137 to be 126 game was one guy missing 2 more shots than would make him “efficient” while literally 300 other things happened to get the final score where it is.
fans have just way over individualized games. And it’s largely the NBA’s fault the way they market things. It just really gives a shit impression to people who don’t have a lot of time to look that close.
Sup, yeah percentages and stats in general are misleading. Remember that clip you posted of rudy rolling and nobody passing it, that sort of thing affects teams and players. Now imagine that guy is KD and it’s in the playoffs.
WB is the ‘yea but he’s not a pg’ guy, except he isn’t a carry you scorer, either. If I built my ideal team with wb, I’d take a point forward, too. I’d say if WB gets reb or if they can outlet, go to him. I don’t care if he misses in that situation. If it’s stopped, run o thru another player. That’s why jokic and him play well.
You just can’t come down, in the playoffs, off an inbound and shoot as the pg repeatedly, unless you’re someone like steph. Shooting without letting anyone touch it is toxic. I think wb has a role, but he never got it. I do think he is cancer, but I’d play with him. I’d take him on my squad. He is an amazing talent. But someone needs to determine when he gets the ball because his decision making is sus when it matters.
Like imagine you are down 1 in a game for your life, you see someone inbound to wb for the last shot. Do you feel comfy? He has amazing strengths but deep flaws. People say about ai like if he were 6’4 or whatever, well if WB was a sf or sg, he’d still have some issues, but nobody should really complain.
-Smak
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NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: Jokic and Westbrook's chemistry is insane
I don't think it was just shooting % that made people criticize Westbrook. It was the way he played as a low IQ floor general.
It's like possessions where there's no passes. 1 guy dribbles it up and shoots it with 0 passes made. Westbrook used to be the king of that. Quick trigger jacks in semi transition and wild sprawling forays towards the rim.
Even in his MVP year averaging double digit dimes his team was in the dead last ranks of assists. He was not a good floor general. It's just that his athleticism was so dominant he could try to force everything himself, but basketball is a team game.
So it wierd that nobodies gotten in his ear and told him to calm down. Imagine if Westbrook played patient... he could technically do it, he just hasn't much in his career.
Maybe the Nuggets elite ball movement system can change him. I don't think Westbrook has ever played on a top ranked assist team like Denver.
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Re: Jokic and Westbrook's chemistry is insane
 Originally Posted by tpols
I don't think it was just shooting % that made people criticize Westbrook. It was the way he played as a low IQ floor general.
It's like possessions where there's no passes. 1 guy dribbles it up and shoots it with 0 passes made. Westbrook used to be the king of that. Quick trigger jacks in semi transition and wild sprawling forays towards the rim.
Even in his MVP year averaging double digit dimes his team was in the dead last ranks of assists. He was not a good floor general. It's just that his athleticism was so dominant he could try to force everything himself, but basketball is a team game.
So it wierd that nobodies gotten in his ear and told him to calm down. Imagine if Westbrook played patient... he could technically do it, he just hasn't much in his career.
Maybe the Nuggets elite ball movement system can change him. I don't think Westbrook has ever played on a top ranked assist team like Denver.
Definitely this.
People who act like "all 30 point triple doubles are the same" are not remembering the real Westbrook experience. In big moments of close games, you could set your watch by a brick or a turnover when he had the ball. Or he would lose his cool and get a technical, then come back on the next possession trying too hard to stick it to whatever player or ref he was upset with, force the issue and play completely out of control and do something sloppy. He was still doing this against Luka in the playoffs even last year, having meltdowns and committing dumb retaliation fouls and then starting a scrum, just being a boneheaded. Hes been doing that his whole career.
He's not the guy whose hands you want to be in when the chips are down. In fact hes the LAST guy you want in control of a big moment. That doesnt show up in the box score but it definitely sets some "big stats" players apart from others.
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Titles are overrated
Re: Jokic and Westbrook's chemistry is insane
So it wierd that nobodies gotten in his ear and told him to calm down. Imagine if Westbrook played patient... he could technically do it, he just hasn't much in his career.
take a moment to think about how he’s been in the league like 15 years and all of his coaches apparently supported it while he’s also among the most beloved players in the league. Think about why that might be.
coaches and players love the motivational aspect of the energy he brings. I remember when Victor Oladipo was on the verge of superstardom pre injury And he did an interview where he explained Westbrook’s insane work ethic and motor showed him the difference between a good player and a superstar. Showed him that you don’t have to take possessions off. You just have to be in such shape you can go all out all the time and it takes a different level of dedication. Players and coaches appreciate that sort of thing in a way that’s hard to recognize at a distance.
Sabonis was saying a lot of the same. No matter how early he would get to the gym Westbrook would already be there and he learned that just trying to keep up with him made him better. They will be there six in the morning four hours before practice running drills with the janitorial staff who were only other people there.
There’s a truly head scratching number of stories of people around Russ, talking about his professionalism and effort, made them better by association.
I’m not gonna bullshit you and say I’ve never noticed a rushed shot that I would assume was a bad decision. But there’s definitely more than meets the eye with this guy. I don’t think he’s selfish at all. I remember at the end of the bubble the hotel staff was talking about he was going around making sure everything was spotless and then left them thousands of dollars in tips For cleaning up after them.
He has left a trail of teammates, staff, coaches, and so on who just rave about him as a person and professional.
It’s not like any of those people don’t see shots selection. They just see a lot more than that on top of it.
Youd have to ask them why. Every time One of them answers it seems to be an over the top borderline love song talking about professionalism and work ethic so I don’t know what to tell you.
I have no doubt somebody in the past hates him. Somebody hates everybody. But I think he’s pretty deep in the plus column for whatever reason we can’t see on TV.
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Titles are overrated
Re: Jokic and Westbrook's chemistry is insane
 Originally Posted by Neal Romer
Definitely this.
People who act like "all 30 point triple doubles are the same" are not remembering the real Westbrook experience. In big moments of close games, you could set your watch by a brick or a turnover when he had the ball. Or he would lose his cool and get a technical, then come back on the next possession trying too hard to stick it to whatever player or ref he was upset with, force the issue and play completely out of control and do something sloppy. He was still doing this against Luka in the playoffs even last year, having meltdowns and committing dumb retaliation fouls and then starting a scrum, just being a boneheaded. Hes been doing that his whole career.
He's not the guy whose hands you want to be in when the chips are down. In fact hes the LAST guy you want in control of a big moment. That doesnt show up in the box score but it definitely sets some "big stats" players apart from others.
and yet you give Steve Nash Amare, Shawn Marion, and Joe Johnson or Dirk and three more All-Stars at the same time and they lose anyway.
The simplest truth is no matter what you’re gonna lose almost all the time and if you get lucky, you’ll squeak by one year while being no better than you were when you were losing with a team full of all stars.
if you give Westbrook an MVP +3 more All-Stars and they lost in the first round to another pretender all the focus will be on a couple weird turnovers and a shot We consider stupid. Same thing happens with one of the smartest players ever who doesn’t do those things and we just move on and nobody talks about it for 20 years.
in truth, it comes down to perception. Like how you and others were talking about Giannis Being easily beatable for years and then he goes and drops 50 to win the title and your response is basically “Still….” Because he wasn’t double teamed every moment With a waiting shot blocker behind them on a team with two defensive players of the year.
Fans not nearly as smart as they think they are just decide what does and doesn’t work and let the inevitability of usual failure prove them right.
I know it. I’ve been that guy before. I just feel like I’m slowly aging out of so many old Argumentative takes.
I’m slowly settling into the idea that nobody knows anything. Myself absolutely included.
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Life goes on.
Re: Jokic and Westbrook's chemistry is insane
 Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
take a moment to think about how he’s been in the league like 15 years and all of his coaches apparently supported it while he’s also among the most beloved players in the league. Think about why that might be.
I honestly believe it's one of those no one has the heart to tell him things. Haha. That or nobody has the balls. In general it's more effective than it is not, but when it comes down to really mattering, it is a liability. It wouldn't be if he had someone else to dictate when he gets the ball. His effort and skill are very high level.
Edit:
 Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
I’m slowly settling into the idea that nobody knows anything. Myself absolutely included.
I did that for awhile, too, but then I remembered how fking smart I am.
-Smak
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Re: Jokic and Westbrook's chemistry is insane
 Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
take a moment to think about how he’s been in the league like 15 years and all of his coaches apparently supported it while he’s also among the most beloved players in the league. Think about why that might be.
coaches and players love the motivational aspect of the energy he brings. I remember when Victor Oladipo was on the verge of superstardom pre injury And he did an interview where he explained Westbrook’s insane work ethic and motor showed him the difference between a good player and a superstar. Showed him that you don’t have to take possessions off. You just have to be in such shape you can go all out all the time and it takes a different level of dedication. Players and coaches appreciate that sort of thing in a way that’s hard to recognize at a distance.
Sabonis was saying a lot of the same. No matter how early he would get to the gym Westbrook would already be there and he learned that just trying to keep up with him made him better. They will be there six in the morning four hours before practice running drills with the janitorial staff who were only other people there.
There’s a truly head scratching number of stories of people around Russ, talking about his professionalism and effort, made them better by association.
I’m not gonna bullshit you and say I’ve never noticed a rushed shot that I would assume was a bad decision. But there’s definitely more than meets the eye with this guy. I don’t think he’s selfish at all. I remember at the end of the bubble the hotel staff was talking about he was going around making sure everything was spotless and then left them thousands of dollars in tips For cleaning up after them.
He has left a trail of teammates, staff, coaches, and so on who just rave about him as a person and professional.
It’s not like any of those people don’t see shots selection. They just see a lot more than that on top of it.
Youd have to ask them why. Every time One of them answers it seems to be an over the top borderline love song talking about professionalism and work ethic so I don’t know what to tell you.
I have no doubt somebody in the past hates him. Somebody hates everybody. But I think he’s pretty deep in the plus column for whatever reason we can’t see on TV.
Most of these coaches/players didnt have the benefit of his whole career in hindsight to make an objective evaluation, nor are people IN sports known for making objective evaluations anyway.
It's a well known aspect of sports that players, coaches, and executives often look only at the upside of a potential acquisition's talents and ignore the red flags, and think theyre the ones who can get the most out of whatever player. Theres a hubris to believing "I can be the one to change him." And usually it doesnt work.
Plus, all those teams and coaches and players that wanted him... they eventually all let him go with very little resistance as well. Nobody's been saying "we cant let THIS guy get away!" since his first few years with the Thunder. Teams have been just passing him around figuring "we'll cross our fingers and hope there's some benefit left to this guy I guess."
Of course they still rave about him when they introduce him. Teams do that with every player they bring in. Teams rave about guys like Shake Milton who are just thrown into trades to make the numbers work. Whenever a team acquires anyone they always talk em up in the beginning. But talk is cheap. Actions speak louder and there hasnt been a whole lot of confidence SHOWN in Westbrook in quite a while.
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Re: Jokic and Westbrook's chemistry is insane
 Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
and yet you give Steve Nash Amare, Shawn Marion, and Joe Johnson or Dirk and three more All-Stars at the same time and they lose anyway.
The simplest truth is no matter what you’re gonna lose almost all the time and if you get lucky, you’ll squeak by one year while being no better than you were when you were losing with a team full of all stars.
if you give Westbrook an MVP +3 more All-Stars and they lost in the first round to another pretender all the focus will be on a couple weird turnovers and a shot We consider stupid. Same thing happens with one of the smartest players ever who doesn’t do those things and we just move on and nobody talks about it for 20 years.
in truth, it comes down to perception. Like how you and others were talking about Giannis Being easily beatable for years and then he goes and drops 50 to win the title and your response is basically “Still….” Because he wasn’t double teamed every moment With a waiting shot blocker behind them on a team with two defensive players of the year.
Fans not nearly as smart as they think they are just decide what does and doesn’t work and let the inevitability of usual failure prove them right.
I know it. I’ve been that guy before. I just feel like I’m slowly aging out of so many old Argumentative takes.
I’m slowly settling into the idea that nobody knows anything. Myself absolutely included.
When things happen consistently, thats how reputations are built.
Yes, of course someone who is typically a playoff riser can have a terrible series. That doesnt mean he sucks. And a guy who had underwhelmed previously in his playoff career like Giannis can have a brilliant finals. That also was not the norm to that point. So theres no reason to proclaim that as being the norm.
Westbrook's earned his reputation through many examples over many years. It's not because he screwed up in a big moment that one time. It's been a constant. And Im not talking simply about wins and losses. That does involve circumstance and some luck. Im talking about the individual player I saw play. His stats put him in the company of players I know for a fact hes nowhere near in caliber when it really matters.
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