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XXL
Re: Jokic and Westbrook's chemistry is insane
I think he chose to leave Washington because he had a chance to play in his hometown. Then, salary and a poor fit were the issue for the Lakers. He fit really well with the Clippers until Harden arrived and bumped him to the bench. I'm not sure what happened with LAC but either they didn't want him or he sought a greater opportunity in Denver.
Either way, he's on the perfect team, playing with the one player who can get the most out of him. Nobody optimizes Westbrook on AND off the ball like Jokic can. And that's why he's averaging 14 points, 7 rebounds, 8.5 assists, and 2 steals on 60% TS (105 TS+) over 15 games (12-3 W/L) as a starter with Jokic.
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Titles are overrated
Re: Jokic and Westbrook's chemistry is insane
 Originally Posted by Neal Romer
So if his teammates love him and that's what counts, why hasnt he lasted more than a year or two on every team he's been with since the Thunder? Seems everywhere he goes theyre ready to move on from him fairly quickly after he arrives.
Jokic doesnt strike me as someone who makes a player request to management because he needs a friend. Or to have someone in the locker room to give him words of affirmation. He obviously saw some way Westbrook would make sense for the Nuggets on the court, which is impressive prescience considering everywhere else he's been lately has been a disaster.
He’s been involved in nothing worth calling a disaster. The clippers going out early in the playoffs two years isn’t a disaster. It’s being the Clippers. The lakers winning 33 while Lebron and Davis miss almost 70 games combined isn’t a disaster. It’s the reasonable outcome when the team is top heavy and injured and a play in team either way. The rockets losing in the second round as a 4 seed isn’t a disaster. They lost in the second round as a third seed the year before. The wizards making the playoffs as an pretender isn’t a disaster. It’s being the Wizards. Denver definitely isn’t a disaster so far either. But if they lose to another team that isn’t even legit themselves he will get blamed even though they did exactly that last year.
This is exactly my issue. Rewriting standards to manufacture more negativity than the results justify.
As I said he hasn’t even been on as many teams as Chris Paul. But apparently his play style and personality is why. Hell they got traded for each other.
One apparently an outcast the other the point god.
Its all just made up as we go along.
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Re: Jokic and Westbrook's chemistry is insane
 Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
He’s been involved in nothing worth calling a disaster. The clippers going out early in the playoffs two years isn’t a disaster. It’s being the Clippers. The lakers winning 33 while Lebron and Davis miss almost 70 games combined isn’t a disaster. It’s the reasonable outcome when the team is top heavy and injured and a play in team either way. The rockets losing in the second round as a 4 seed isn’t a disaster. They lost in the second round as a third seed the year before. The wizards making the playoffs as an pretender isn’t a disaster. It’s being the Wizards. Denver definitely isn’t a disaster so far either. But if they lose to another team that isn’t even legit themselves he will get blamed even though they did exactly that last year.
This is exactly my issue. Rewriting standards to manufacture more negativity than the results justify.
As I said he hasn’t even been on as many teams as Chris Paul. But apparently his play style and personality is why. Hell they got traded for each other.
One apparently an outcast the other the point god.
Its all just made up as we go along.
You were just the guy in another thread saying dont equate the player with the results. Now thats what youre doing.
Im saying Westbrook's PLAY was a disaster when it counted. Nobody in Houston thought "this worked well" and thats why they traded him. Thats why the Lakers specifically ditched him without making any secret of the fact they considered the signing a mistake, and not ditching every other player involved in the result.
He was dropping 3-17 games in the playoffs for the Clippers last year and despite losing PG and not having Kawhi either to start this season, they offered him no role/contract for this year. If it wasnt for Jokic hes probably out of the league.
So, youre clearly sterilizing the recent history to protect Westbrook for whatever reason.
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Titles are overrated
Re: Jokic and Westbrook's chemistry is insane
You’re the one talking about disasters. If a disaster had the same results as non disasters you probably need a different word.
What I was talking about in the topic you mentioned(I thought it was this one) is exactly the issue.
Youre talking about disasters when you don’t…really…know what you’re talking about. Just another limited info fan trying to attribute negative results where you think they go based on your limited understanding of what causes outcomes.
Dudes been in the nba for 17 years. Hes played more games than Mutombo and Ewing. He should have been gone already if the people who mattered saw things the way you do. He will eventually be out of the league after playing much much longer than plenty of dissimilar players the league let go of before they wanted it.
But no doubt whenever that day comes you’ll rewrite standards to take a victory lap as if it isn’t just…time for someone to retire from sports.
That guy doesn’t need protecting. Hes gonna retire a first ballot hall of famer who happens to also be among the most beloved teammates in memory.
You having a problem is of little consequence. Just fan noise. Nothing about his career suggests any lack of respect not reflected in the last stages of a bunch of legends you’re content to ignore.
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XXL
Re: Jokic and Westbrook's chemistry is insane
Here's what I said back in July 2024 when Westbrook officially signed with Denver. The thread here was deleted but I made the exact same post on RealGM. I'm calling this a W for me. The only thing I got wrong was Russ working well with the bench.
July 19th, 2024
I can see it working solidly. With the bench and even the starters. Jokic is a great screener and he doesn't need the space other bigs need when rolling to the basket due to his floater and high-release mid-range game. And great passing. Westbrook not drawing much defensive attention in the PnR is less of a concern.
Russ + Zubac was a good PnR tandem and Ivica has the best floater/paint-extended game outside of Jokic.
Russ gives Denver an actual playmaker outside of Jokic. And there should be great cutting opportunities for him with Nikola's playmaking from the paint-extended/free-throw line/nail area. Not to mention the Nuggets like to play up-tempo, getting out in transition and inbounding fast for early offense.
Even if it's just to help them in the regular season it's still potentially a win. Jamal will inevitably miss 20-30+ games.
July 19th, 2024
The Westbrook with Zubac and without Harden lineup minutes tended to do well. I remember before they got Harden LAC was killing it. The [Westbrook, George, Leonard, Covington, Zubac] lineup was +38.4 in 50:51 minutes of game time. A small sample admittedly, but not too shabby.
I can see the [Westbrook, Braun/Murray, Porter, Gordon, Jokic] lineups functioning in a similar fashion. And he should help the bench units too.
July 19th, 2024
Also building on Westbrook's fit with Jokic: 1) Russ is great at post-entry passes, even within the PnR; 2) The reckless way Russ attacks the rim creates more offensive rebounds, putbacks, and tip-ins.
The second point sounds ridiculous but it tends to hold true throughout his career. It's covered in the Thinking Basketball video below.
https://youtu.be/8zhBVMAjAmA?feature=shared&t=248
I was bang on about the starting lineups featuring Westbrook. Here's how the numbers are looking so far:
Basketball Reference
C. Braun | A. Gordon | N. Jokić | M. Porter | R. Westbrook: 100:21 minutes played (4th most-used lineup), +26.1 net rating
A. Gordon | N. Jokić | J. Murray | M. Porter | R. Westbrook: 47:31 minutes played (7th most-used lineup), +21.0 net rating
NBA.com
C. Braun | A. Gordon | N. Jokić | M. Porter | R. Westbrook: 100 minutes played (4th most-used lineup), 126.7 ORtg, 100.9 DRtg, +25.8 net rating
A. Gordon | N. Jokić | J. Murray | M. Porter | R. Westbrook: 48 minutes played (7th most-used lineup), 129.8 ORtg, 112.9 DRtg, +16.9 net rating
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XXL
Re: Jokic and Westbrook's chemistry is insane
Denver is up to 15-3 now in games Westbrook has started with Jokic. Per game averages: 14 points, 6 rebounds, 8 assists, 2 steals, 3 turnovers, 52.7% FG, 59.1% TS.
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