Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

[BIGSHOT]

LBJ needs to get to about 52 wins to have a shot.

[YAWN]

they should just rename this sticky to "pleezebelieves garbage ramblings"

[amfirst]

adfasd asdf asdf

[mlh1981]

I'll throw my opinion into the ring.............(maybe I did several pages back, but can't remember)

LeBron is the focal point of the Cavs. Everyone knows what to expect when they play the Cavs. They know his moves, they know his tendencies. He's still able to go out there and do his thing. He's the perfect package of size, speed, and agility. They know what he's going to do, but they sure as hell can't stop it. In regards to the team, he hasn't had consistent, reliable help this season. Most of his teammates have been injured at various points. Without him, they are toast, but he has DRAGGED them to respectability. Are they a top notch team in a tougher conference like Kobe's Lakers are? No, they aren't. However, we are looking at a kid who isn't even in the PRIME of his career yet, beating teams in an array of different ways to help his team, riddled with problems, win more games than they lose. Not to put Kobe down, but he doesn't really do a whole lot besides score. He's not going to win games with his passing, and he doesn't make signature, game changing plays with his defense like LeBron does. (granted, Kobe is a great defender) I hope my Kobe statement isn't misconstrued. I don't watch all 82 of his games, but I just don't see a guy who has a well rounded game like LeBron has. He falls short when compared to LeBron in most statistical categories.

The fact that he is able to take a deeply flawed team to respectability, and the fact that he outpaces Kobe statistically, are the reasons I feel that LeBron should get MVP. I am trying not to slight Kobe. He's the greatest assassin in this game. I feel like LeBron sometimes lacks Kobe's killer instinct. LeBron, in the past, has been more interested in being friendly with everyone while on the court whereas Kobe just wants to slit your throat. I am seeing more aggressiveness from LeBron this season, but I just wanted to throw that out there that Kobe is perhaps THE greatest competitor in the game.

[YAWN]

Without him, they are toast, but he has DRAGGED them to respectability. Are they a top notch team in a tougher conference like Kobe's Lakers are? No, they aren't. However, we are looking at a kid who isn't even in the PRIME of his career yet, beating teams in an array of different ways to help his team, riddled with problems, win more games than they lose.

sounds like what kobe did for the past 2 years. yet since he isnt liked by the media people chose to bash him for it.

Not to put Kobe down, but he doesn't really do a whole lot besides score. He's not going to win games with his passing, and he doesn't make signature, game changing plays with his defense like LeBron does. (granted, Kobe is a great defender) I hope my Kobe statement isn't misconstrued. I don't watch all 82 of his games, but I just don't see a guy who has a well rounded game like LeBron has.

just because you dont watch laker games but watch cavs games all the time doesnt mean kobe isnt doing anything defensively, he, IMO, is playing some of the best defense of his career.

[mlh1981]

sounds like what kobe did for the past 2 years. yet since he isnt liked by the media people chose to bash him for it.


just because you dont watch laker games but watch cavs games all the time doesnt mean kobe isnt doing anything defensively, he, IMO, is playing some of the best defense of his career.

Well, if Kobe gets it, I certainly won't have a problem with it. I admire him for becoming less selfish with the basketball. What little bit of him I have caught this year has impressed me. Anyone who bashes him to this day is clearly running on fumes and old arguments that were true 3/4 years ago. I have the upmost respect for the guy, and hopefully, he's done playing team GM/throwing his guys under the bus. He's almost 30 years old, so I feel that he's done doing that kind of crap that would take away from people noticing his game.

I've always known Kobe to be a good defender. However, I guess the point of my post was to say that I've seen LeBron make game changing plays on the defensive end. He can be a bit of an intimidator. If Kobe is making game changing plays on D, I've missed them b/c I've probably watched him play 5/6 times this year, so basically, my whole argument is about pumping up my fav. player instead of taking cheap shots at Kobe.

LeBron has about 12-15 years to win MVP awards, so if Kobe gets his in 2008, then more power to him.

[YAWN]

Well, if Kobe gets it, I certainly won't have a problem with it. I admire him for becoming less selfish with the basketball. What little bit of him I have caught this year has impressed me. Anyone who bashes him to this day is clearly running on fumes and old arguments that were true 3/4 years ago. I have the upmost respect for the guy, and hopefully, he's done playing team GM/throwing his guys under the bus. He's almost 30 years old, so I feel that he's done doing that kind of crap that would take away from people noticing his game.

I've always known Kobe to be a good defender. However, I guess the point of my post was to say that I've seen LeBron make game changing plays on the defensive end. He can be a bit of an intimidator. If Kobe is making game changing plays on D, I've missed them b/c I've probably watched him play 5/6 times this year, so basically, my whole argument is about pumping up my fav. player instead of taking cheap shots at Kobe.

LeBron has about 12-15 years to win MVP awards, so if Kobe gets his in 2008, then more power to him.

yeah im not saying kobe should get the award. im just saying he is also having a great year and should be up there with lebron, paul, and kg. We'll see how the rest of the season plays out.

[Loki]

and Kobe doesn't make signature, game changing plays with his defense like LeBron does. (granted, Kobe is a great defender) I hope my Kobe statement isn't misconstrued.

It's true. Kobe isn't the defensive playmaker that Lebron (or Wade for that matter) is. I've always said this. He's a better defensive player (excluding aspects of help defense), but not a better defensive playmaker. You can count on Lebron/Wade to make the big steal, block, deflection, or forced TO before Kobe late in a game. They're two different things. Not that Kobe's never done it, just that he isn't as good at defensive playmaking as these other guys.

[Phenomenon]

Yeah lets give the MVP to a guy who will finish in the 10th seed out West...

Kobe isn't the defensive playmaker that Lebron (or Wade for that matter) is. I've always said this.

You didn't see Kobe humiliate Wade in their last meeting? Containing Wade late in the game by completely shutting his ass down and getting a steal that led to a fast break dunk?

Good for LeBron and Wade, they are better weak side defenders...who the **** cares? It's like saying Camby is a better defensive player then Garnett or Duncan because his defensive effort is being measured by statistics.

You can count on Lebron/Wade to make the big steal, block, deflection, or forced TO before Kobe late in a game.

Sometimes I wonder what kind of game are you even watching, Kobe has made so many key stops in the 4th I've lost count...LeBron or Wade rarely take that assignment.

Kobe is a DPOY candidate this season and will once again make the 1st team-defense...I'll take that over what you or the other Cleveland fan has to say about their respective defensive prowess.

Another thing I wonder about LeBron, how is it all the sudden a guy like Larry Hughes can play so well in Chicago while being called the least productive starting SG in the league playing along side LeBron.

I mean people like Loki never mention the fact that Kobe had led a team to 45 wins with Kwame & Smush as his starters including Walton...in a much tougher conference, and never sniffing the MVP...(finishing in 4th)...Smush & Kwame aren't getting any minutes for two of the WORST teams in the league.

I'm sorry but what Kobe did that year is a ****ing hell of a lot more impressive then what LeBron is doing for his team out east this season...yet Kobe finished 4th that year. Yet Kobe is putting up fantastic numbers this season, and has his team a top of the most competitive race in the western conference maybe of all-time...and somehow people think LeBron is more deserving.

[Loki]

Point blank: if you think that Kobe is a better defensive playmaker than Lebron or Wade (at least 2006/2007 Wade), you're delusional.

He's a better defender, but not a better defensive playmaker. Fact.

Good for LeBron and Wade, they are better weak side defenders...who the **** cares? It's like saying Camby is a better defensive player then Garnett or Duncan because his defensive effort is being measured by statistics.

No, it's not the same you shrill homer, because I didn't say they were better defensive players than Kobe. Learn to read.

They are better defensive playmakers, however.

[BIGSHOT]

LeBron has definetly improved his D but last I checked he was giving up a eFG% of 50% to opposing SF. Compared to Kobe whose giving up eFG% of 44 %.

[Indian guy]

Yeah lets give the MVP to a guy who will finish in the 10th seed out West...

Cleveland has the 9th best win % in the league this season when LeBron plays.

Another thing I wonder about LeBron, how is it all the sudden a guy like Larry Hughes can play so well in Chicago while being called the least productive starting SG in the league playing along side LeBron.

WOW. What world have you been living in? Larry Hughes is averaging 16 ppg on under 40% shooting(YES, AGAIN) as a Bull. Bulls are 3-5 since the trade and if you wanna get an idea of how much us Bulls fans dislike him, please visit any of our top boards on the net(basketballboards.net or realgm). Hughes sucked in GS, was OK in Washington, sucked in Cleveland and now sucks in Chicago. You want to know why? Because he is a bad basketball player.

I'm sorry but what Kobe did that year is a ****ing hell of a lot more impressive then what LeBron is doing for his team out east this season

You don't have to be sorry for being wrong. Nobody denies how incredible Kobe was that season, but I don't see how 31/8/8/2/1 on 49% shooting(a statistically superior season to any Kobe's ever had) and leading a beyond awful cast w/ injury issues to a .650 win % isn't AT LEAST just as impressive as 35/5/5 w/ bad cast and a .550 win %. IMO it is more impressive. If you don't think it is at least equivalent then you're being a very unreasonable homer here. You point at Kwame and Smush. I'll point at Cleveland averaging 82 ppg in 7 games w/o LeBron this season. All 7 blowouts and only 3 of 'em where they topped a FG% of .400.

[Phenomenon]

They are better defensive playmakers, however.

I'm a homer? Look in the mirror pal.
I have never seen a basketball fan hate on a player as much as you hate Kobe because of insecurities. That's taking homerism to a whole other level. You have no credibility in using that word toward anyone on this forum.

He's a better defender, but not a better defensive playmaker. Fact.

If you say so, first time I even heard that term.
As long as you understand that Kobe's defensive prowess is on another level then Wade or LeBron's, we're cool. You can continue to create new terms downplaying Kobe, that's what tingles your spine.

[Loki]

but I don't see how 31/8/8/2/1 on 49% shooting(a statistically superior season to any Kobe's ever had)

Silly goose...Kobe could have put up those numbers IF HE WANTED TO. <snicker>

[Loki]

I'm a homer? Look in the mirror pal.
I have never seen a basketball fan hate on a player as much as you hate Kobe because of insecurities. That's taking homerism to a whole other level. You have no credibility in using that word toward anyone on this forum.



If you say so, first time I even heard that term.
As long as you understand that Kobe's defensive prowess is on another level then Wade or LeBron's, we're cool. You can continue to create new terms downplaying Kobe, that's what tingles your spine.

It's not downplaying anything -- it's calling a spade a spade. Kobe is a better defender; Lebron is a better defensive playmaker. Jordan and Pippen were way better defensive playmakers. Sorry you can't deal with Kobe not being the best at everything.

Never heard of defensive playmakers? They're the guys who make sh!t happen on the defensive end down the stretch of games or to break runs and swing momentum.